9318 réponses à ce sujet

[aTigerslunch]

http://him.uk.msn.co...what-men-go-for

 

That isnt the same one I read weeks ago, I tried searching it, sorry cant find the one I was referring to now.

 

Yay for suspicious looking search histories!    @Mes quit looking at that stuff   

[Mes]

I don't think we have to worry too much about FemInquisitor being fetishised. I thought default FemHawke always looked very fierce and practical. Certainly a far cry from female characters in games like DOA etc.
I think that the trouble is there is a divide between realistic, representative, and marketable. In reality FemInquisitor would probably be super toned and durable after all the trekking, horseriding and fighting. In terms of being representative, people might like to see a range of body types, weights, heights and muscle masses. In terms of marketing, it might be the case that more people are willing to spend 80+ hours looking at a conventionally attractive build than a realistic or representative one.

I'm just grateful that I can play as a female, no matter how she is represented, and that's a little sad really. It does make my heart go out to all the even more underrepresented groups in mainstream media.

 

I don't think she will be fetishised, either. Certainly not the vibe I was getting from the concept art, anyway! 

 

By the way I saw the new X-Men movie yesterday and finally realized who Male Quizzy's helmet reminds me of:

 

 

(Fassbender looks better, imo. )

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Will look for it. (My search history will be suspicious-looking...)

Danke schoen. 

[Char]

Point is they're typically idealized from the male point of view. They look the way that men want to look (at least in pretend-world), rather than the way that a woman would find them attractive.

For instance a few weeks back I saw two male images, one pieced together with body parts that men voted as the most desirable, and the other pieced together with body parts that women found desirable. The end result showed that men created an image of a much more muscular and imposing person than the women did.

I thought that was quite interesting, and made me actually feel a bit better knowing I'm by far not the only woman out there who prefers slim men to those fugly body builders they typically have in games.

They showed us something similar during my degree, showing the misconceptions about attractiveness between the sexes. I'll have a look for the studies they used when I get back home, it was fascinating

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think she will be fetishised, either. Certainly not the vibe I was getting from the concept art, anyway! 

 

By the way I saw the new X-Men movie yesterday and finally realized who Male Quizzy's helmet reminds me of:

 

 

(Fassbender looks better, imo. )

Michael Fassbender is the second male Inquisitor voice option!

[Mes]

Here we go, found the image from the article:

 

Spoiler

 

Pretty significant difference, to me anyway. Notice the hair, too. 

[aTigerslunch]

I loved the new X-men movie and repairing the mistakes of the first trilogy.

 

 

its a small spoiler, not major.

 

Spoiler

  Rogue had her gloves back on at the end.

 

 

 

Editing:  It worked the first time... erasing the other parts I wrote before and after spoiler brackets.

[Gwydden]

Here we go, found the image from the article:

 

Pretty significant difference, to me anyway. Notice the hair, too. 

The first one is about what I was referring to with "athletic but not over the top". I wouldn't want to look like the second guy under any circumstance. Way too much weight to carry around.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

The first one is about what I was referring to with "athletic but not over the top". I wouldn't want to look like the second guy under any circumstance. Way too much weight to carry around.

Yeah, it's hell on the knees to be anything over 27 BMI (the knees don't care if it's lean mass or not).  The biceps are too big on the second guy, but the calves on both are too scrawny for my tastes.  I think Bruce Lee-like is probably a good way to be.  Personally, I've got too big a rib cage to ever be considered slim, so I've got a soft spot for barrel chested (NOT 'roided out) guys.  As far as a female inquisitor goes, all other things being equal, I'd prefer more jacked over less jacked.  That preference is informed largely by the fact that I rarely get to see such female body types in any medium, especially video games.  I'd like to see what a ripped female body looks like in motion, in combat, just running around.  I'm curious.

 

On a side note, I know I've said in the past that the Qunari males are too muscular, but part of me would like it (or at least be amused) if they'd made the Qunari men look like the Farnese Hercules.  It would have been interesting to take the Qunari in a direction that makes them ridiculously muscled, terrifying, and purposefully unattractive. 

[SnakeCode]

That's ridiculous. Men and women are people and as such have their own individual tastes and everyone's "ideal" is going to be completely different.

 

I certainly don't want to look like the image on the right, or the one on the left for that matter, they look like freaks. They aren't in proportion, and they kinda creep me out.

 

We really should stop labeling men and women as groups and start treating everyone as an individual, accept that not everyone likes the same things.

[Gwydden]

That's ridiculous. Men and women are people and as such have their own individual tastes and everyone's "ideal" is going to be completely different.

 

I certainly don't want to look like the image on the right, or the one on the left for that matter, they look like freaks. They aren't in proportion, and they kinda creep me out.

 

We really should stop labeling men and women as groups and start treating everyone as an individual, accept that not everyone likes the same things.

I think they look out of proportion because they're actually pieces of different people sewn together. Classic Quentin 

[naddaya]

I think they look out of proportion because they're actually pieces of different people sewn together. Classic Quentin 

 

It's not just that. There's some upper/lower body disproportion in both.

 

Anyway, I agree with SnakeCode. Too much generalization. #2 looks more attractive to me, and I'm a woman. But I'm roughly as muscular as #1, just with a smaller rib cage. I grew up around gyms, my perception of people is affected by that. Same for other people. Your own body type often affects your taste. Some people are bothered by body fat, others are fine with it or find it attractive. Some people dislike ripped physiques. Some people like body hair, others don't. Same for men (although most agree that they don't like a moustache on their girlfriend ).

[Gwydden]

It's not just that. There's some upper/lower body disproportion in both.

 

Anyway, I agree with SnakeCode. Too much generalization. #2 looks more attractive to me, and I'm a woman. But I'm roughly as muscular as #1, just with a smaller rib cage. I grew up around gyms, my perception of people is affected by that. Same for other people. Your own body type often affects your taste. Some people are bothered by body fat, others are fine with it or find it attractive. Some people dislike ripped physiques. Some people like body hair, others don't. Same for men (although most agree that they don't like a moustache on their girlfriend ).

Of course. Beauty is subjective. That is the best thing about it. This discussion originated as speculation on what a marketed female Inquisitor would look like. I was thinking that they will likely go with the human model, which I think ought to be more middle of the road (not too scrawny, not too muscular) to appeal to a wider range of tastes and more easily fit all classes. After all, the elf model will definitely be slim and the dwarf and qunari models will most certainly be stocky, so those are already covered.

 

As far as attractiveness goes? I don't need a female character to be attractive, although if I'll be roleplaying said character, I would certainly appreciate the chance for her to be. But for marketing? They can go with whatever default they prefer and you won't hear a complain from me. Truth be told I'm not that picky about body types either. It's facial features I can be ridiculously choosy about 

 

Oh, and because attractiveness is subjective, I think is ridiculous to expect, much less ask, for a particular character to fit your own particular definition. That's what character creation is for. Body models, however, are set. That's why I'd like the human one to stay away from any extremes.

[naddaya]

Oh, and because attractiveness is subjective, I think is ridiculous to expect, much less ask, for a particular character to fit your own particular definition. That's what character creation is for. Body models, however, are set. That's why I'd like the human one to stay away from any extremes.

 

I just wished they were realistic enough. What's up with developers and spaghetti arms on women? It makes sense for rogues to be lean and quick, warriors to be fairly built and mages to be.. well, whatever they want

I'm not saying they should be buff, just not the "I'm inactive and starve myself" kind of skinny. Hawke wasn't that bad, but Shepard and the Warden looked like they couldn't lift a mage staff.

[Gwydden]

I just wished they were realistic enough. What's up with developers and spaghetti arms on women? It makes sense for rogues to be lean and quick, warriors to be fairly built and mages to be.. well, whatever they want

I'm not saying they should be buff, just not the "I'm inactive and starve myself" kind of skinny. Hawke wasn't that bad, but Shepard and the Warden looked like they couldn't lift a mage staff.

Sure! That's yet another reason why I think it shouldn't go into any extremes for the humans. A warrior should certainly have at least some muscle, but it really seems unlikely a mage or a rogue would be massively built. Those classes don't really need it at all.

 

I could buy mage Hawke having an athletic built. He lived in a farm, after all, and he was often on the run. A mage Warden though? The only way he/she could have gotten like that is by exercising in his/her free time, which seems... more than a tad unlikely.

[AkiKishi]

Most RPGs allow you to play either gender. They have for many,many years. Bound by Flame is the most recent that springs to mind. RPGs are not exactly common games. 

 

Lara Croft Feminist Icon or hot chick with a nice ass... 

 

I rather liked the helmet idea proposed earlier. Nice clean and controversy free. I don't particularly care if they put a female Inquisitor on the cover. Iv'e never bought a game based on the cover anyway. Or based on very silly non gameplay type adds for that matter.

[Mes]

That's ridiculous. Men and women are people and as such have their own individual tastes and everyone's "ideal" is going to be completely different.
 
I certainly don't want to look like the image on the right, or the one on the left for that matter, they look like freaks. They aren't in proportion, and they kinda creep me out.
 
We really should stop labeling men and women as groups and start treating everyone as an individual, accept that not everyone likes the same things.

I don't know how to tell you this, but you missed the point. We were talking about the sexualization of women versus men in video games, and how both are typically created with a male player in mind.

[Blue Gloves]

I just wished they were realistic enough. What's up with developers and spaghetti arms on women? It makes sense for rogues to be lean and quick, warriors to be fairly built and mages to be.. well, whatever they want

I'm not saying they should be buff, just not the "I'm inactive and starve myself" kind of skinny. Hawke wasn't that bad, but Shepard and the Warden looked like they couldn't lift a mage staff.

 

I agree- I can understand a female circle mage looking all starved and stuff, but my one and only human warden probably should've had some more arm muscle, you know, on account of her apparently growing up and spending a bunch of time training and in swordplay.  My dwarven characters never seemed out of proportion though, and I always figured that my elf characters were skinny, because, well, elves.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 27 mai 2014 - 01:07 .
Removed deleted quote.

[AkiKishi]

They just released a HD version of the PSVita AC: Liberation which has a female protag. It would still be nice to see a female lead in the main series . Its an annual title with a huge base and a zillion protags, heck, two seperate titles are rumored to be releasing this year, it makes no sense that none of the main entries in the series have a female lead at this point.

 

Compare the sales of Liberation with the main AC series. When you have a choice with minor changes (like most RPGs) it's not a big sacrifice. If on the other hand its an either or choice. It's very important. 

 

Before that happens it needs to be proven that games with female protaganists can sell big. Based on the sales of Games like Remember me and the like. Publishers are just not seeing that. Until those games start to sell in equal or near equal numbers, publishers have no reason to rock a very lucrative boat.

[WildOrchid]

There were games with dude protags and didn't sell big. I think It's the story and gameplay that sells, mostly.

[AkiKishi]

There were games with dude protags and didn't sell big. I think It's the story and gameplay that sells, mostly.

 

There were, but the burden of proof is on those that want change. I doubt Ubisoft care anymore than I do whether the protagonist of AC is male or female. But they care about the revenue the game makes and I can't blame them for that given the fairly poor sales of games with female protagonists.

[WildOrchid]

There were, but the burden of proof is on those that want change. I doubt Ubisoft care anymore than I do whether the protagonist of AC is male or female. But they care about the revenue the game makes and I can't blame them for that given the fairly poor sales of games with female protagonists.

 

Care to tell me the titles of those games of female protags that didn't sell? There are enough games with female protags that sold good.

[AkiKishi]

Care to tell me the titles of those games of female protags that didn't sell? There are enough games with female protags that sold good.

 

It's linked further up the thread. Remember Me is probably the most recent, Liberation you can put down to being an early Vita release if you like. The creators of Remember me were actually advised by the publishers they pitched the game ,to change the protagonist to a male. 

 

While the stats are fairly even as in male/female split. The female % is far more focused on the MMO/Mobile sector. 

[AkiKishi]

I can't seem to find an edit button... The only one I can think of which sold well is Tomb Raider. 

[WildOrchid]

It's linked further up the thread. Remember Me is probably the most recent, Liberation you can put down to being an early Vita release if you like. The creators of Remember me were actually advised by the publishers they pitched the game ,to change the protagonist to a male. 

 

While the stats are fairly even as in male/female split. The female % is far more focused on the MMO/Mobile sector. 

 

Remember me would still sell poorly even if it had a dude in it, just like most games with dudes that didn't sell. Liberation was from Vita and didn't had good graphics (srsly compare it to to AC4 or 3, though Aveline's DLC was much better looking and better gameplay. The Liberation HD was basically the same as the first AC in terms of controls) AND, not to mention it got marketed poorly.

 

The advertisers are a whole another level of idiocy, they even dared to tell Naughty Dog to not put Ellie on the cover bc it wouldn't sell (bless them for not hearing them). Guess what? Ellie became the fan favorite.