Hopefully they've seen from fan reaction that going beyond the numbers (and even against them) can cause a much more positive reaction among fans, no matter what class/gender/race they generally chose for their first (and possibly only) playthrough.
What do you mean by this?
Good point. As far as we know, sexual dimorphism is still at play here, though, so there's really no reason to expect a female who is as muscular as Bull.
People aren't saying they want a woman that looks like Iron Bull. They're saying that it's rare to get a woman that deviates as much from standard human beauty as Iron Bull does. Shale was one, though wasn't romanceable. But we're also talking about in aggregate across gaming, not just Dragon Age games.
Yeah, that's a little troubling... since scientifically speaking, humans cannot be 'hermaphrodites'. Also, I wonder what she's referring to... did people give her sh*t about the transgender line in the video? Cuz... intersex and transgender are two totally different things too.
Probably a degree of ignorance since, until reading your post, I was also unaware.
EDIT: And yes, some were speaking ill of her for the end of the video.
So this is starting to go off topic, I want to ground it in this:
Making model variations is time consuming. Assuming we can only choose one, how do we reconcile two contrary perspectives that appear to be mutually exclusive?
Seems relevant here: http://www.cnet.com/...le-protagonist/
This part of the author's comment reminded me of earlier discussions:
And for those who would like to see more diversity in how the protagonist is represented on screen, it's vitally important to continue speaking up -- not only when they see something they don't like, but when they see something they do.
I actually think you're helped by having four races though because each race already lends itself to differences in how they look, qunari tall and hopefully broad, dwarf short and stocky, elf lithe and slim and human athletic and... something. Hopefully that's at least giving you four different models to start with and what the discussion seems to be about now is the clothes and armour being worn from there.
I actually agree with this. I know not everyone will, and someone will be "I would prefer if my elf was more like X" and stuff like that, but I'm hoping it's a reasonable compromise.
I was just talking about the presentation where he was talking about the "human female inquisitor." It's the tone that he said it in that gave me the impression he was going "Oh look, BSN and world, we are so good for listening, pat us on the head." And then going, we're done now.
Is it your jadedness with us caring about it that makes you more sensitive to this? It seems to undermine the position that this sort of stuff isn't something you care about.
It's pointing out, explicitly, to a gaming population that is becoming increasingly more visible about this sort of stuff, this is the human female inquisitor. We don't need to go "Hey BSN we're listening to you." Based on this thread, I get the impression that people interested in this issue already feel that BioWare has noticed the discussion.
That's not my point, people outside of the ones already invested in the dragon age are getting the impression that all LGBT characters and the ability to play as female is just a way to grab sales more than anything.
Any chance you have a selection bias on your sample?
You've already (long ago) posted a "why is this thread even still here" type of message in this thread. Is the topic one that you're actually interested in? Or are you trying to silence people by implicating that continuing on this discussion is, on the whole, harming the game's image to the gaming audience as a whole and undermining its chances of success?
I see some confusion. Let me just put it this way, there are girls that I know who I think of as very feminine, and their defining characteristic is they don't go "oh hey, look at this, look at me, look at how I do this." They just do it. They just dress how they want, say what they want.
There are literally people that ask Aaryn (and myself, and others, and so forth) en masse for "I'd like to see a character of race/gender combination." Stating it straight up makes that fact known. Because, as evidenced by this thread (and frankly, perhaps the gaming population in general, given that the topic is coming to the forefront more and more) some people are interested in that particular topic.
I think your frustration with the topic's prevalence is causing you to overthink it.
I think I'm pretty much done here, apparently it was so upsetting I said that I characterized the previous 200 pages of this thread to be about " curves or walk being sexual," as the thread was in fact about whether or there was simply a female inquisitor. I don't need to continue to be harassed every time I try and make a larger point when people fixate on every detail that is remiss when the statements are designed simply to make broader points for the most part. The message was simply that this thread, as far as I can tell, is focused on appearances, the 'presence' and not the 'character.' Fine, the previous 200 pages seem to largely be focused on 'appearances' and not necessarily on her 'character.' You all have stated numerous times the point was simply to get her in the material, just her image, and that's the information I've been going off as much as anything.
Agreed that the thread has evolved beyond just the scope of more lady inquisitor. It's kind of been a catch all for women in games, motivated in large part by the existence (and visibility) of a woman protagonist in the game.
The foundation on the thread, however, began from merely having the presence/existence. A character that was clearly a woman, that could be easily and immediately recognizable from the stand point of letting people know quickly and precisely "You can play a woman in this game." Now it might seem trivial because for you or me "well duh, of course you can!" But as experiences of those in this thread have shown, there are those that have played (and loved) our games (and other games) that missed out on the games at first because the draw of being able to play as a woman was important for them and it wasn't clear. There wasn't enough of a hook to get to the stage to even initially investigate the game for character creation options.
If people wish to discuss my motivations and commentary in closing the other thread, where would you best like to do it? Someone want to make a group?
Jamie Lee Curtis!
I thought so too 
Why the **** are we talking about the Witcher again?
Because I've been busy, I'm guessing.
Give me a break. You do understand TW2 made unapologetic empowered females and all you guys did was ****** about it? And then TR came about, and all everyone did is complain about rape, when the FEMALE writer had thought this through?
After listening to you chastise games media for labeling gamers and stereotyping them, I just want to point out that you're doing the exact same thing here.
At this point, it might be more productive to analyze why people tend to do this, rather than simply get upset/defensive when they do.
(for the record, I don't get mad at articles that chastise "gamers" because I know they're not talking about me)
I am a little suprised by your answer.
Feel free to elaborate on your response then (I think it's also important to note that that comment is old. I have much less reservation now and have opted to do just that while testing DAI)
Man you guys already have planned your smoochie agenda . I have not !!! It just....every new companion is unknown . And reading about them and seeing their Bio or even their pic or in Trailer . None made me go 'Omgg I want to
that one' . Whats wrong with meh Doc ?
I plan nothing either. I am on full blackout for Pillars of Eternity (which I can try to give feedback on for women representation, if people like).
Even for DAI, I'm only now entering "general playtester" phase (we all are reaching that point now) and much of the plot lines are still new to me and I learn things about our characters and whatnot that I love 
Yes, though depending on what you want the two voices seem to offer a decent scope, for two. I suspect letting you use alternate gender voices would sound obvious, it may also open up a whole heap of contingencies BioWare would have to account for, depending on how exactly the voices work.
The biggest issues would be recording the different voices for varying pronoun usage. I don't know how much that would be as a percentage of all lines, but it would definitely not be the same as simply saying "use voice male 1" for a lot of the lines.
So I'm understanding, you hate us allowing beards on women because it reminds you of the experiences you've had in the past where people teased your woman dwarf for having a beard?
it helps makes the players of fictional dwarves who don't want their characters to have beards more discriminated against because "dwarven women all have long beards, har har har" even in games where it's far from the norm by lore. You've never had to deal with it so you don't understand. Seen grown men fall into acting like school yard bullies over that bearded women crap.
Just so that I'm clear here... you feel discriminated against as a person because you like dwarves and feel you get teased for liking dwarves on the basis that people joke that the women have beards?
I genuinely am struggling to understand why this is an issue, especially in the single player game.
EDIT:
I think the reason I'm so sensitive to it, is as a transgender woman, the experience is very similar to people insisting I'm a man, no matter how feminine I am or what I do to be my real self. So when people insisted my dwarf has a beard despite everything I did and showed to prove otherwise, and despite it being my character, well it strikes a very similar emotional parallel. So is kind of one of those traumatizing experiences I'm really sensitive too because my real life experiences are wrapped into it.
Okay I think I understand better. I don't understand why this would be mitigated if it was also allowed by a human. Can you elaborate on that?
The cost justifications have already been detailed immensely, plus we actually have incorporated the Female Inquisitor in promotional pieces as well as stage demos and whatnot.
So your counter argument has already been rendered invalid.
As for "appeasing the feminists" please treat people on the forum with a modicum more respect. Thank you.
most of the dev gameplay demos had female inquisitors. The trailers had male.
Response should have been "thats fair, each gets their own part." instead its "make trailers with female inquisitor"
I wouldnt have had a problem if it was reversed with female trailers and male demos, but wanting both for 1 gender is exactly "give them an inch and they take a mile".
It's important to consider the context of the post that kind of started this derailment, which was basically omitting hundreds of pages of discussion with an explanation for why it shouldn't be done.
I see the distribution as being pretty even because I see it in its entirety. Some feel that it'd be better if the distribution existed between demos and trailers because of the audiences that exist within them. It's okay for us to disagree in this regard, and it's merely a talking point.
It's not "give them an inch and take a mile," it's discourse. Sometimes we make attempts and they don't work out as well, and while effort is typically appreciated, effort in the wrong way isn't as productive. Someone has a hypothesis that the effort could be used in a better way and they feel that the breakdown of trailer and demo is important, and they rationalized it via the hypothesis that the trailer is seen by more people that aren't already fans, while demos are consumed by fans who presumably already know male/female options exist. It's a logical conclusion... I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it is false either though. It's just talking, really.
That said, I don't have the data, and I don't think people here do. I think that the demos are undersold a bit, but it's okay for us to disagree and talk. It's okay for fans to not have a perfect understanding of logistical challenges that may predispose such a breakdown from happening and whatnot. It's a discussion, but framing it as "give them an inch they'll take a mile" is pretty problematic since we haven't even really established the metrics for what the "disparity" is. If women are given an inch when they're a mile away, they should still be asking for a mile because the inch is just one step on the journey then, not the destination.
I am pretty sure they are tracking it. I think I remember one dev (Ryan Treadwell, maybe?) mentioning that specifically in regard to the female PCs and the randomizing effect.
There's a 50/50 chance for each gender when you pick new game.
did you not read what I just said? Completely changing the main character partway through a marketing campaign is bad idea and never done.
The thing about our main character is that one of the things about it is they are very diverse in their appearance.
We've gone with a more iconic look with the armor/helmet, which is still recognizable but allows us to be more gender ambiguous (such as our cover) yet still being recognizable in a lot of imagery for the game.
I edited the OP to say the following:
MODEDIT: Just an addendum to this post, the conversation has evolved a lot form this point and in large part discusses female protagonists in games in a variety of topics. If you are just now seeing this thread, it may be most worthwhile to see where the discussion is currently at at the end of the thread.Thank you.
It's actually pretty rare though, for a game to have a customisable character without being able to create a female character. Can you think of any? I can't think of any. I can think of games where you can't customise but can still pick your gender though.
Alpha Protocol, South Park, Brink (Brink actually released a statement saying they were not doing female characters because they wanted to focus on more for the male character), Deus Ex, Saints Row 1.
So they are out there.
As a thought experiment, has there been games that only have women that have customization?
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