9318 réponses à ce sujet

[oceanicsurvivor]

The most recent TombRaider is around 6 mil. That's after many months and selling at a lower price point. Square Enix announced that the game failed to meet expectations and It's the best selling Tombraider of the franchise. 

 

http://www.eurogamer...it-expectations

 

http://www.polygon.c...franchises-best

 

When you have to worry about how you portray them as well, which can be a landmine. Its little wonder the industry does not want to get involved. 

 

The fact that it failed to meet expectations was largely considered the fault of the publisher.  Square Enix was hoping the game would pull it out of finanical trouble and therefore saddled it and a couple other games with unrealistic sales expectations and then labeled all of them failures for not selling like Grand Theft Auto. Addtitionally, it made it to 6 million after the Definitive Edition was sold; the high def/next gen remake. So, despite being a 'disappointment', the devs. were given more time and money to spend on the game to refine it and repackage it for next gen and then sold a bunch of copies to next gen owners at full price, and made it to that unrealistic benchmark.

[In Exile]

Since we're on the topic of marketing female protagonists, I thought some of the dev quotes around Tomb Raider were outright terrible. 

[Ryzaki]

Square considered it a failure because they expected it to make up for the huge losses a bunch of their crap games added to the books. The idea that a single game will balance your books is stupid. 

 

People keep doing that though. Especially with MMOs. I'm so bummed KOA went out like *sigh*

 

 

Since we're on the topic of marketing female protagonists, I thought some of the dev quotes around Tomb Raider were outright terrible. 

 

Like what?

 

I did love the E3 video. (Despite the bruhaha that followed).

[AkiKishi]

The fact that it failed to meet expectations was largely considered the fault of the publisher.  Square Enix was hoping the game would pull it out of finanical trouble and therefore saddled it and a couple other games with unrealistic sales expectations and then labeled all of them failures for not selling like Grand Theft Auto. Addtitionally, it made it to 6 million after the Definitive Edition was sold; the high def/next gen remake. So, despite being a 'disappointment', the devs. were given more time and money to spend on the game to refine it and repackage it for next gen and then sold a bunch of copies to next gen owners at full price, and made it to that unrealistic benchmark.

 

Whatever SE's total projection (double figures) 6 million after a year and release on 4 platforms for something with that level of advertising is not good. 

[In Exile]

Like what?

 

I did love the E3 video. (Despite the bruhaha that followed).

 

I'm trying to find the quote. It was about how they made Laura vulnerable so the player would want to protect her - based on how the dev said that, and the context, it was pretty uncomfortable for me. 

 

Whatever SE's total projection (double figures) 6 million after a year and release on 4 platforms for something with that level of advertising is not good. 

 

This is about 2 million more than what DA:O sold, and DA:O is Bioware's top selling title. 

[syllogi]

It could be argued, but it would be just plain wrong.Tomb Raider was marketed very well. It's also high 80's on metacritic.  

 

http://www.mcvuk.com...t-of-q1/0111456

 

“We’ve been supporting Tomb Raider from a media perspective ever since we first announced the title two years ago – this involved YouTube and social networking activity as well as online advertising around big Lara announcements,” added product manager Elizabeth Blackman.

“As we ran into the launch period, we sponsored the very successful Sky 1 show Arrow and also have a great cinema campaign around high profile movies.”

 

Ads will also run during the Champions League return leg between Man United and Real Madrid, and posters can be seen around London Underground stations and on buses.

 

That's the word of the product manager.  Although I knew a new Tomb Raider was coming out, the biggest thing I remember hearing about the "reboot" before the game came out was the controversy over the "attempted rape" scene (don't want to drive this thread further off course, but it is what it is, that was the thing people remember about the marketing for the game) and a dev saying that the player will want to "take care" of Lara (barf).  I didn't preorder the game, but after hearing good things about it from friends, online, and reviews, I bought it and enjoyed it.

 

Again, though, what is the point of trying to dissuade Bioware from marketing a female version of the protagonist?  What do you, as a consumer, have to gain from *not* seeing female characters in advertisements (or other races, also something I'd like to see)?  It is highly unlikely that one, or even a few trailers with a female player character, or multiple versions of the player character in various races and genders, will make or break the sales of the game.  So what is your argument exactly?

[AkiKishi]

That's the word of the product manager.  Although I knew a new Tomb Raider was coming out, the biggest thing I remember hearing about the "reboot" before the game came out was the controversy over the "attempted rape" scene (don't want to drive this thread further off course, but it is what it is, that was the thing people remember about the marketing for the game) and a dev saying that the player will want to "take care" of Lara (barf).  I didn't preorder the game, but after hearing good things about it from friends, online, and reviews, I bought it and enjoyed it.

 

Again, though, what is the point of trying to dissuade Bioware from marketing a female version of the protagonist?  What do you, as a consumer, have to gain from *not* seeing female characters in advertisements (or other races, also something I'd like to see)?  It is highly unlikely that one, or even a few trailers with a female player character, or multiple versions of the player character in various races and genders, will make or break the sales of the game.  So what is your argument exactly?

 

Well I can vouch sponsoring The Arrow being 100% true since that's where I first heard of the game. 

 

I'm not trying to dissuade Bioware from that, this was on a tangent of someone wanting a female protagonist in a main Assassins Creed game and what it would take to realistically achieve that. And more generally why you don't see females in more high profile games and how WatchDogs played safe and sold tons anyway (that sums it up).

[AkiKishi]

 

This is about 2 million more than what DA:O sold, and DA:O is Bioware's top selling title. 

 

I'm pretty certain ME3 would be above that by now. I'll link in when I find one.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Whatever SE's total projection (double figures) 6 million after a year and release on 4 platforms for something with that level of advertising is not good. 

 

Last I checked on this stuff: Six million is about where Far Cry 3 and Batman Arkham City are. Better then Max Payne 3, which was an established male lead franchise from Rockstar. Bioshock Infinite was around 4 million. Mass Effect 3's early numbers are 3.5 million. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was about 3 million. All of those games are considered a success, even ones that sold way less then Tomb Raider and got (what at least felt like) a similar amount of marketing if not more.

 

Keep in mind that its pretty much unprecedented to see a game reach its sales goal a year after release. Most games either make their goal within 3 months of release or are labeled a disappointment. Tomb Raider kept chugging along and was revitalized by a next gen port.

And I'm under the impression its sold well enough to warrent a sequel, even before the next gen release/despite being a 'disappointment'.

 

a dev saying that the player will want to "take care" of Lara (barf).

 

It's bizarre how pervasive this line of thinking became around this game. I recently watched a couple Conan O'Brien clueless gamer segments. Most were ok until the Tomb Raider one, where he gets kinda creepy and definitely embodies that mentality. Now those segments are mostly paid adverts for the game, so I don't know if he was working off a script by the devs at all, but it was all gross. But maybe also a bit enlightening about how men play and view games with women leads...but definitely not in a good way.

[WildOrchid]

The most recent TombRaider is around 6 mil. That's after many months and selling at a lower price point. Square Enix announced that the game failed to meet expectations and It's the best selling Tombraider of the franchise. 

 

http://www.eurogamer...it-expectations

 

http://www.polygon.c...franchises-best

 

When you have to worry about how you portray them as well, which can be a landmine. Its little wonder the industry does not want to get involved. 

 

 

Square Enix is stupid. They expected the game to sell based on their own expectactions. Stupidity aside, Tomb Raider sold amazingly well.

[Ryzaki]

I'm trying to find the quote. It was about how they made Laura vulnerable so the player would want to protect her - based on how the dev said that, and the context, it was pretty uncomfortable for me. 

 

 

This is about 2 million more than what DA:O sold, and DA:O is Bioware's top selling title. 

 

Oooh huh that sounds odd. Tell Tale did better at making me feel that way with clementine.

[AkiKishi]

Six million is about where Far Cry 3 and Batman Arkham City are. Better then Max Payne 3, which was an established male lead franchise from Rockstar. Bioshock Infinite was around 4 million. Mass Effect 3's early numbers are 3.5 million. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was about 3 million. All of those games are considered a success, even ones that sold way less then Tomb Raider and got (what at least felt like) a similar amount of marketing if not more.

 

Keep in mind that its pretty much unprecedented to see a game reach its sales goal a year after release. Most games either make their goal within 3 months of release or are labeled a disappointment. Tomb Raider kept chugging along and was revitalized by a next gen port.

And I'm under the impression its sold well enough to warrent a sequel, even before the next gen release/despite being a 'disappointment'.

 

Give or take 3 million. 

 

http://www.computera...each-9-million/

 

and without a next gen remake.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Give or take 3 million. 

 

http://www.computera...each-9-million/

 

and without a next gen remake.

Haha, that one sadly didn't show up on my google search

 

Not a next gen release, but that surge is no doubt due in no small part to Blood Dragon.

 

The basic point however, was that seling 3 or 4 million copies should hardly be considered a failure and selling 6 million is most definitely a success.

[AkiKishi]

 

The basic point however, was that seling 3 or 4 million copies should hardly be considered a failure and selling 6 million is most definitely a success.

 

That really depends on what the game needs to break even. The bigger the budgets get the more you need to sell.For  Destiny to break even it needs to sell around 15-16 million units.

 

http://egmr.net/2014...illion-destiny/

[oceanicsurvivor]

That really depends on what the game needs to break even. The bigger the budgets get the more you need to sell.For  Destiny to break even it needs to sell around 15-16 million units.

 

http://egmr.net/2014...illion-destiny/

Yes, well that is what happens when your budget is half a billion dollars.

[Mockingword]

The most recent TombRaider is around 6 mil. That's after many months and selling at a lower price point. Square Enix announced that the game failed to meet expectations and It's the best selling Tombraider of the franchise. 

 

http://www.eurogamer...it-expectations

 

http://www.polygon.c...franchises-best

 

When you have to worry about how you portray them as well, which can be a landmine. Its little wonder the industry does not want to get involved. 

Earlier Tomb Raider games wouldn't have needed to sell even close to 6 mil. When the franchise first started, the bar for success was lower because games were cheaper to produce, and the economy wasn't in a hole.

 

If the phenomenal success of one female lead was enough to make the industry take notice, there would already be a lot of female lead characters, because Tomb Raider succeeded years ago. In fact, Tomb Raider II sold your magic number, 8 million copies, back in 1997.

 

So where the women at?

[Cutlasskiwi]

I'm trying to find the quote. It was about how they made Laura vulnerable so the player would want to protect her - based on how the dev said that, and the context, it was pretty uncomfortable for me. 

 

Here's one article where they talked about it.

[Gwydden]

Earlier Tomb Raider games wouldn't have needed to sell even close to 6 mil. When the franchise first started, the bar for success was lower because games were cheaper to produce, and the economy wasn't in a hole.

If the phenomenal success of one female lead was enough to make the industry take notice, there would already be a lot of female lead characters, because Tomb Raider succeeded years ago. In fact, Tomb Raider II sold your magic number, 8 million copies, back in 1997.

So where the women at?

Inertia can be quite powerful. It is much easier to keep on as it always has, especially if you don't have any personal investment nor interest in promoting change. Which is disappointing, really.

[AkiKishi]

Earlier Tomb Raider games wouldn't have needed to sell even close to 6 mil. When the franchise first started, the bar for success was lower because games were cheaper to produce, and the economy wasn't in a hole.

 

If the phenomenal success of one female lead was enough to make the industry take notice, there would already be a lot of female lead characters, because Tomb Raider succeeded years ago. In fact, Tomb Raider II sold your magic number, 8 million copies, back in 1997.

 

So where the women at?

 

I'm missing something here. The article clearly states that TombRaider (the new one) is the highest selling of the franchise. Where did you get that TombRaider 2 sold 8 million ?

[Char]

I'm missing something here. The article clearly states that TombRaider (the new one) is the highest selling of the franchise. Where did you get that TombRaider 2 sold 8 million ?

Wikipedia says 8 million sales as of 2003. Some other sites say just under 6 mil. Clearly some conflict at some stage unfortunately.

[Char]

Wikipedia references this article:
http://web.archive.o.../gamestats.shtm

[Nefla]

Why is it that every so often guys come into this thread just to say "women's don't sell!" They argue and give stats each time (which always ends up being a chicken and egg thing) all the while saying "oh I'm with you, *I* would buy games with women on the cover or in the trailer, but those guys won't!" Every one of them says this. Who are "those guys?" If every person arguing against it is not actually against it then who is it that supposedly refuses to buy anything other than a straight white male?

[Blue Gloves]

You know, I think, overall, when we post discussions like this on the Bioware forum, we're mostly (of course, there are always some exceptions) talking to a more enlightened, accepting crowd of both men and women.  While it can be funny/ frustrating to have people do things like this (and some, as Nefla pointed out, undoubtedly do)

 

Why is it that every so often guys come into this thread just to say "women's don't sell!" They argue and give stats each time (which always ends up being a chicken and egg thing) all the while saying "oh I'm with you, *I* would buy games with women on the cover or in the trailer, but those guys won't!" Every one of them says this. Who are "those guys?" If every person arguing against it is not actually against it then who is it that supposedly refuses to buy anything other than a straight white male?

 

I think it's likely that many of the guys on this particular forum probably would buy a game with a female protag based on being interested in the genre and gameplay mechanics without really being bothered too much by the protagonist's gender.  Bioware is a progressive company, and i think (perhaps optimistically) that their forums generally attract a more progressive breed of gamer.  Even the posts from Akikishi have simply served to further the debate rather than baldly state something like "No girlz allowed!  Gamez R 4 dudez yo!" However, if we were to try and have this discussion on, say, the Escapist's forums or on the IGN forum, we'd probably see more resistance to address the actual topic (ie that women are important demographic and that we'd like this particular game to show us more of the female protagonist in the marketing campaign). 

 

*Edit: to clarify, I think we'd see more of those guys elsewhere on the interwebz, and I do think that some of them exist, just maybe not as many as the marketing department and fellows arguing against the inclusion of female protags in marketing due to revenue concerns do

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Snip

IGN is terrible when it comes to sexist guys, was on there that i argued with a guy who was sh*tting on DA2 prior to release simply for having a female version of Hawke

[Gregolian]

Tomb Raider is the type of game I honestly would buy no matter who the protag is as I enjoy games like that.  I say this as a straight male.

 

However, some games like Bayonetta I haven't bought even though it is practically just like Devil May Cry and made by Capcom.  Both Bayonetta and Heavenly Sword I didn't buy and I can't really put my thumb on it.  I'd like to say that it isn't because Bayonetta and Heavenly Sword have a female protag whereas DMC has a male but that might just be it.  I'd like to think it's because I feel like those two games are ripoff copycats of DMC.