9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Cankiie]

Right, I agree with you, but then why use this same white guy default for all marketing materials? If they really want to get across the idea that the Inquisitor is a blank slate and can be anyone you want, then the Inquisitor should appear different every time we see them in a new trailer or screenshot. Keep the helmet on them to obscure their features and identify them as the Inquisitor, but show us more than just the default white human guy.

 

This is actually a much better idea for any kind of RPG games with a character creation system (Which most RPG games have).

 

Keep the main character hidden in a suit armor, in shadows, in a hood, in large baggy clothes.

 

Keep the main character silent, let other important figures in the same game speak, in this case, Cassandra.

[JadePrince]

ME seems to be a merchandising powerhouse.  You can slap the N7 logo on anything and people will buy it.  The Bioware store has snowboarding gear for sale, for crying out loud.  But I don't think that's necessarily Shepard as much as the N7 logo and stripe being really appealing.  Most of the ME merch out there doesn't feature Shepard's face at all, although of course most of what does is Sheploo instead of Femshep.

 

But funny story, I was working a merch booth at a con recently, and we had N7 shirts with both male and female Shepard on them.  Every time I pointed out the Femshep to people, there were cries of delight.  "Nobody EVER does Femshep merch!"  I'd say the Femshep shirts sold out about as fast as the Sheploo ones, and the only thing keeping them from selling faster was that they were only available in women's cut (and as I discovered, many women prefer unisex).

 

Also, my buddy who owns that booth told me that Bioware had told him not to bother with DA merch.  DA merch doesn't sell, they said.  Especially not DA2.  I don't think that has anything to do with Hawke.  I think it has more to do with Origins not being iconic enough (other than the Blood Dragon, it's pretty generic fantasy-looking) and DA2 having such a poor reputation that even those who liked the game would rather not walk around in a shirt advertising that fact.  If DA2 had been better received, we'd probably see tons of merch with Hawke's face all over it.  I'm interested to see how DAI shapes up on the merch front.  They've got some solid iconography with the helmet and inquisitor logo.

 

Of course, this is one more reason why I'm bothered by the lack of female protagonists in the marketing.  The marketing informs the merchandise, so all-male protagonists in the marketing translates to all-male faces on the merch.

 

Sounds to me like the love of the ME games sold the merchandise rather than default Shepard's face being the thing that made them money.

 

Either way, seems like we're talking about two different things-- an unreleased game with a PC that noone knows yet and a widely beloved game with a default PC that everyone knows and recognizes.

 

So I don't think you can use ME's success to argue that DA needs to use a default white guy to sell their game. Doesn't even sound like you need the default white guy to sell the merchandise (in the case of ME), if it's true that it's mostly the logo that they use for merch. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Sounds to me like the love of the ME games sold the merchandise rather than default Shepard's face being the thing that made them money.

 

Either way, seems like we're talking about two different things-- an unreleased game with a PC that noone knows yet and a widely beloved game with a default PC that everyone knows and recognizes.

 

So I don't think you can use ME's success to argue that DA needs to use a default white guy to sell their game. Doesn't even sound like you need the default white guy to sell the merchandise (in the case of ME), if it's true that it's mostly the logo that they use for merch. 

 

That's what I'm thinking.  I said earlier (much earlier now) in the thread that I see the value of an appealing default face.  People are more drawn to an interesting face than they are to a symbol that has no meaning to them yet, and that face helps build a recognizable brand.  But I don't think there only has to be one face.  I thought that DA2's strategy with making both default Hawkes very similar, with the black hair and blood smear, could have actually been a strong marketing tool.  They could have used both their faces, either side-by-side or interchangeably, on all their marketing materials.  Unlike Femshep, who didn't get a defined default appearance until the third game, Lady Hawke had just as much strong visual appeal as her male counterpart.  Alas, the ball was dropped on that front, along with all the other problems that DA2 had.

 

But that said, an iconic default face is still obviously not what they're doing for DAI, so that strategy is moot.  There is no reason to stick to only one model if they're going to make that model so generic.

[Silith]

I'm not getting my hopes up too high regarding E3 even though I know I said earlier that I was waiting for it. Realistically, if there isn't an emphasis on the Lady Inquisitor in marketing up until now, I doubt that they would sacrifice valuable E3 time for something that seems to be so unimportant. But I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised...

Btw, I don't much care about how a default Lady Inquisitor looks, if there is a default at all - but I really, REALLY want to hear her voice(s). But I won't say no to a picture either. *nudge, wink*

 

That's what I'm thinking.  I said earlier (much earlier now) in the thread that I see the value of an appealing default face.  People are more drawn to an interesting face than they are to a symbol that has no meaning to them yet, and that face helps build a recognizable brand.  But I don't think there only has to be one face.  I thought that DA2's strategy with making both default Hawkes very similar, with the black hair and blood smear, could have actually been a strong marketing tool.  They could have used both their faces, either side-by-side or interchangeably, on all their marketing materials. 

 

Like this? 

( I absolutely LOVE this picture btw - game is out at the end of June for everyone who needs something to tide them over until DA:I, heh)

 

I love the idea of showing off different Inquisitors in marketing to showcase the different characters you can play. Wasn't this what they originally did for DA:O as well? It matches this kind of RPG so well.

[AkiKishi]

 

 

I love the idea of showing off different Inquisitors in marketing to showcase the different characters you can play. Wasn't this what they originally did for DA:O as well? It matches this kind of RPG so well.

 

Don't like the pauldrons and the balance is a little off, but its a nice effect overall. 

 

This is the DA:O trailer The Warden is the one with the blue glowy eyes, the others should be recognisable.

 

Kinda helps if I put the link in I guess

 

[Brass_Buckles]

It's not DAI related, but I thought I would link the announcement trailer of a new Bethesda/Battlecry studios game which focused on a female lead:

 

 

Soooo, Bioware/EA, your turn?

 

 

Hmm.  Woman as lead in the trailer?  Nice.  Women in other classes/factions?  Great.  Women in general present is fantastic...

 

But did no one else notice the battle heels?  It's lovely that no one's in a thong, but battle heels? Noooooooooooo!  Seriously, we could tell that the women were women without their combat heels... they are completely unnecessary.

 

Alas, I won't be likely to play that game regardless, simply because I don't generally do MMOs.  I've considered KOTOR and the new Elder Scrolls MMO, but I haven't actually gone for it.  Maybe after the price drops--because ESO is actually a paid subscription game, and I understand KOTOR is better if you pay a subscription.

[Nefla]

Hmm.  Woman as lead in the trailer?  Nice.  Women in other classes/factions?  Great.  Women in general present is fantastic...

 

But did no one else notice the battle heels?  It's lovely that no one's in a thong, but battle heels? Noooooooooooo!  Seriously, we could tell that the women were women without their combat heels... they are completely unnecessary.

 

Alas, I won't be likely to play that game regardless, simply because I don't generally do MMOs.  I've considered KOTOR and the new Elder Scrolls MMO, but I haven't actually gone for it.  Maybe after the price drops--because ESO is actually a paid subscription game, and I understand KOTOR is better if you pay a subscription.

OMG Play SWtOR! (we can be SWtOR buddes ) you should at least try it out as a f2p and then if you like it you could subscribe. I have never liked any MMO I have played but SWtOR is like a single player game (but you can team up if you want) and has unique companions and stories for each class and even romances

 

ESO, I don't know what you like in a game, but I found it really dull. It was pretty much a chore to play and I was immediately bored with all the generic MMO stuff and it had none of the fun and charm of the single player TES games T_T I played for like 4 hours tops (spread over a week) and only then because my friend kept wanting me to play with him.

 

I didn't really notice the battle heels, I thought they were like cowboy boots or something lol.

[Omikuji]

Right, I agree with you, but then why use this same white guy default for all marketing materials? If they really want to get across the idea that the Inquisitor is a blank slate and can be anyone you want, then the Inquisitor should appear different every time we see them in a new trailer or screenshot. Keep the helmet on them to obscure their features and identify them as the Inquisitor, but show us more than just the default white human guy.

 

I think it's because that a lot of the assets were not completed yet, and when they used the male model it was because it was the most complete. Which was why the demos had a male human and had male humans in droves rather then ladies in the background aside from the companions. They where all human, and all male if you look at it and this was practically a year back.

 

Since they had been showing the male Inquisitor in the demos, they just kept using it because it was a bit more recognizable.

 

I don't think Bioware is at all means anything bad by using the male default. Trailers take a lot of time to make, if they want it done well, rendering the scenes and the shots that are complete. Remember, this just got into alpha, in a pre alpha state how much is actually shined to a polish like the things shown in the singular actual trailer released so far? We have had one trailer that actually shows the Inquisitor as a male, they probably have the female finished and have another trailer to show with a lady for another time. We have to remember, what is shown to us is quality controlled to only show what the product is supposed to be at the end, that means they aren't going to show incomplete models or something that isn't up to the standards they wanted.

 

It just feels very impatient when people demand for another trailer, more trailers, show us more and more with different characters and different genders, when they still have a short amount of time to get the game done to a polish.

[Brass_Buckles]

It just feels very impatient when people demand for another trailer, more trailers, show us more and more with different characters and different genders, when they still have a short amount of time to get the game done to a polish.

 

So according to this logic, we're horribly impatient whiners for continuing to request to have women represented in game marketing (particularly trailers), thereby potentially broadening the market to a larger number of female players...?

 

I don't see it, especially since we're not demanding anything.

 

Also, Nefla... I will consider it, once the price drops.  Money is something I don't have in vast supplies, or I would leap on the DAI Uber edition, because the goodies... they are so pretty...

[Omikuji]

So according to this logic, we're horribly impatient whiners for continuing to request to have women represented in game marketing (particularly trailers), thereby potentially broadening the market to a larger number of female players...?

 

I don't see it, especially since we're not demanding anything.

 

 

I never said that? I said people are being impatient about it. That doesn't automatically mean whiny, I mean they need to calm down and let Bioware work without hounding, them scolding them because something isn't looking the way they wanted. I said that we've had one trailer that actually show cased the Inquisitor which was created in Pre Alpha and that was it so far. Making trailers take time and resources that they should be putting into the game, they probably already have one that they are going to show at E3. 

 

We've had a total of three actual trailers of the game. Barely. Mostly hype bait things. Only one so far has shown the male inquisitor, we've had concept art of the lady but no ingame model as of yet. Because it's PreAlpha. Most people have been acting like it's a huge insult there hasn't been a trailer with the lady when forgetting they're working on actually finishing the game. 

 

Maybe put a bit of trust into Bioware that they already know this stuff about the lady inquisitor? They don't need loads of people demanding it from them?

 

Also hang on, we have had plenty of lady representation in the trailers and the art and things of that nature. The very first E3 trailer showed Morragin, then in the newest trailer had Cassandra strongly shown and she's been shown as a key figure quite often. They have had ladys as a representational front in their advertisements, do they not count because it's not the blank slate main character? 

Modifié par Omikuji, 31 mai 2014 - 04:35 .

[Nefla]

So according to this logic, we're horribly impatient whiners for continuing to request to have women represented in game marketing (particularly trailers), thereby potentially broadening the market to a larger number of female players...?

 

I don't see it, especially since we're not demanding anything.

 

Also, Nefla... I will consider it, once the price drops.  Money is something I don't have in vast supplies, or I would leap on the DAI Uber edition, because the goodies... they are so pretty...

But you don't have to buy SWtOR :< or pay a monthly fee it's all free (optional sub and cash market supported)

 

I think it's because that a lot of the assets were not completed yet, and when they used the male model it was because it was the most complete. Which was why the demos had a male human and had male humans in droves rather then ladies in the background aside from the companions. They where all human, and all male if you look at it and this was practically a year back.

 

Since they had been showing the male Inquisitor in the demos, they just kept using it because it was a bit more recognizable.

 

I don't think Bioware is at all means anything bad by using the male default. Trailers take a lot of time to make, if they want it done well, rendering the scenes and the shots that are complete. Remember, this just got into alpha, in a pre alpha state how much is actually shined to a polish like the things shown in the singular actual trailer released so far? We have had one trailer that actually shows the Inquisitor as a male, they probably have the female finished and have another trailer to show with a lady for another time. We have to remember, what is shown to us is quality controlled to only show what the product is supposed to be at the end, that means they aren't going to show incomplete models or something that isn't up to the standards they wanted.

 

It just feels very impatient when people demand for another trailer, more trailers, show us more and more with different characters and different genders, when they still have a short amount of time to get the game done to a polish.

Yeah...I don't think so. Are we forgetting the game was supposed to be released last fall I don't believe that they didn't have a single female model done when the game was supposed to be released. If they didn't then I am even more disappointed. They had horses, deer, dragons, foxes, nugs, but women are the least important out of all of those? It's not "impatient" to be disappointed that there still isn't ANY representation of the female player 4 months before it hits the shelves. We're loyal fans here and have been buying BW's games for years and most of us buy way more DLC and merchandise than the typical male fans as well as spreading the word about their games and posting fanart, etc...yet we're still an afterthought. You don't see why that's upsetting?

 

There have been 3 trailers so far, and in the only 2 that had an inquisitor at all both were a white male. Hawke was advertised as a white male, the Warden was advertised as a white male, Shepard was advertised as a white male, and when it comes time to advertise the inquisitor...oh it's a white male AGAIN. there's no inclusivity so far, no acknowledgement that women are here too or that we matter in the slightest. Not even any art or mentions that you even have the choice to play as a female on their official site. Just more dudebro love as always. I though BioWare was better than the rest but I guess being treated like you matter is to much to ask for from even them. 

[Lady Nuggins]

I never said that? I said people are being impatient about it. That doesn't automatically mean whiny, I mean they need to calm down and let Bioware work without hounding, them scolding them because something isn't looking the way they wanted. I said that we've had one trailer that actually show cased the Inquisitor which was created in Pre Alpha and that was it so far. Making trailers take time and resources that they should be putting into the game, they probably already have one that they are going to show at E3. 

 

We've had a total of three actual trailers of the game. Barely. Mostly hype bait things. Only one so far has shown the male inquisitor, we've had concept art of the lady but no ingame model as of yet. Because it's PreAlpha. Most people have been acting like it's a huge insult there hasn't been a trailer with the lady when forgetting they're working on actually finishing the game. 

 

Maybe put a bit of trust into Bioware that they already know this stuff about the lady inquisitor? They don't need loads of people demanding it from them?

 

Also hang on, we have had plenty of lady representation in the trailers and the art and things of that nature. The very first E3 trailer showed Morragin, then in the newest trailer had Cassandra strongly shown and she's been shown as a key figure quite often. They have had ladys as a representational front in their advertisements, do they not count because it's not the blank slate main character? 

 

When this thread first started, it was more of a request to see the Lady Inquisitor down the line, when they were able to show her.  A reminder, before the big marketing push started, that there is a demand for this.  At that point, there was only the one trailer from last year.  Allan did chime in to say that they finished the male first, so that's what they went with, and it was understandable at that point in time.  Since then, we've had another trailer with a voiced Inquisidude and a completed official site with nothing but shots of the Inquisidude.

 

I understand that there are constraints.  I understand that they can only work on one model at a time, that working on both at once is not feasible.  I understand that the male version will always come first, whether I like that or not.  I understand that trailers take a lot of time and effort to make.  What I don't understand is why the official site does not even say that you can play as female.  I don't understand why they can't have even one screen shot of her.  

 

Yes, there has been a lot of focus on the female characters, and that's fantastic.  But they aren't the main character.  They aren't the hero of the story.  

 

If I didn't have some level of trust in Bioware, then I wouldn't even bother asking.  But I don't know what goes on behind the scenes of the company.  I don't know what kind of conversations they have or how their decisions are made.  What I do know is that we wait and see how the entire marketing campaign looks without saying anything, then it will be too late to ask. 

 

And considering there are threads on this board asking them to make fundamental changes to the gameplay that would be impossible (or really costly and difficult) to implement at this stage, I don't actually think what we're asking for is all that demanding at all.  

[aTigerslunch]

I thought male shep was bit more Latino or spanish but alas still a male. I was more hyped with femshep than maleshep. She was far more attractive to me.

Four months left to go and I'm still waiting and expecting femquisitor to take E3 stage. I said in another thread they shouldn't have a male in that show. Otherwise the gender neutral boxart wont be gender neutral to me.

Snipping my own post....I blah blah to much sometimes.

[Dutchess]

 

We're loyal fans here and have been buying BW's games for years and most of us buy way more DLC and merchandise than the typical male fans as well as spreading the word about their games and posting fanart, etc...yet we're still an afterthought. You don't see why that's upsetting?

 

 

Whenever I think of the female character being an afterthought, this comes to mind:

 

 

Such a horrendous, unflattering outfit clearly made for a man.

[Nefla]

I thought male shep was bit more Latino or spanish but alas still a male. I was more hyped with femshep than maleshep. She was far more attractive to me.

Four months left to go and I'm still waiting and expecting femquisitor to take E3 stage. I said in another thread they shouldn't have a male in that show. Otherwise the gender neutral boxart wont be gender neutral to me.

Snipping my own post....I blah blah to much sometimes.

Man I hope we're just blown away at E3 and the lady inquisitor will have a huge showing. T_T

[oceanicsurvivor]

Whenever I think of the female character being an afterthought, this comes to mind:

 

 

Such a horrendous, unflattering outfit clearly made for a man.

 

That thing isn't flattering on anyone.

[Nefla]

That thing isn't flattering on anyone.

It WAS clearly made for a man though. I would have been happy if we got a weird unflattering female outfit for the female player. (leg-o-mutton sleeves anyone?)

[Lady Nuggins]

It WAS clearly made for a man though. I would have been happy if we got a weird unflattering female outfit for the female player. (leg-o-mutton sleeves anyone?)

 

Funnily enough, I prefer that dumb outfit on Lady Hawke.  I'm a sucker for women in suits, though.

 

I think a better example of "female version as afterthought" is Femshep running around like a linebacker.  Better stick out those elbows to avoid brushing your twig arms against the enormous pecs you don't have.  Ridiculous as Lady Hawke's hip swagger is, at least she has her own movement animation.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Whenever I think of the female character being an afterthought, this comes to mind:

 

 

Such a horrendous, unflattering outfit clearly made for a man.

I actually didn't mind the outfit. I mean, it is Orlesian after all.

[oceanicsurvivor]

It WAS clearly made for a man though. I would have been happy if we got a weird unflattering female outfit for the female player. (leg-o-mutton sleeves anyone?)

 

Oh, haha, yeah I completely understand the point.  That thing was just...awful though.   But I agree with Lady Nuggins, it was nice not to instantly be teleported into a dress for a change. I'm still seriously hoping that the Orelesian Ball segment so many people think will happen will include a 'prep' segement where you choose your outfit. Whether you want to fit in with the royals, totally snub them, dress/suit thing etc etc. And maybe even have people react to that choice.

 

Funnily enough, I prefer that dumb outfit on Lady Hawke.  I'm a sucker for women in suits, though.

 

I think a better example of "female version as afterthought" is Femshep running around like a linebacker.  Better stick out those elbows to avoid brushing your twig arms against the enormous pecs you don't have.  Ridiculous as Lady Hawke's hip swagger is, at least she has her own movement animation.

 

I thought FemShep did have her own arm movements? They just looked really weird, like she never actually bent her arms, they just kinda lumbered at her side. Male Shep meanwhile has a very prim and proper jog, where he keeps his arms at 90 degree angles.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Funnily enough, I prefer that dumb outfit on Lady Hawke.  I'm a sucker for women in suits, though.

 

I think a better example of "female version as afterthought" is Femshep running around like a linebacker.  Better stick out those elbows to avoid brushing your twig arms against the enormous pecs you don't have.  Ridiculous as Lady Hawke's hip swagger is, at least she has her own movement animation.

I wanted a dress too, but weren't one of you complaining about male and female outfits magically morphing into something else before?

[Lady Nuggins]

I thought FemShep did have her own arm movements? They just looked really weird, like she never actually bent her arms, they just kinda lumbered at her side. Male Shep meanwhile has a very prim and proper jog, where he keeps his arms at 90 degree angles.

 

Did she actually?  Because it looks so completely wrong for her.  She sticks her elbows way out like she should have a lot more bulk than she does.

 

[oceanicsurvivor]

Did she actually?  Because it looks so completely wrong for her.  She sticks her elbows way out like she should have a lot more bulk than she does.

 

 

Yeah, I think you're right, my bad.   Its that weird middle phase between walk and jog that I was remembering.

[slimgrin]

Did she actually?  Because it looks so completely wrong for her.  She sticks her elbows way out like she should have a lot more bulk than she does.

 

 

This gave me nightmares. She hobbles around like some crippled imp.