197 réponses à ce sujet

[grey_wind]

Just how do you delay a Reaper?

You keep hitting the scan button until they all drop what they're doing and chase you around the solar system, then give up the moment you leave an arbitrary boundary.

Rinse and repeat.

[von uber]

 

 

 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Of all of the problems with the ending that still don't make any sense, Harbinger's beam is the most obvious.

 

Before that Beam Run, we'd seen the beams of Capital-Class Reapers (the 2 KM ones like Sovereign) tear through heavily armored and shield dreadnoughts with little effort. During the beam run, we had seen Harbinger pinpoint and evaporate troops, gunships and tanks with expert marksmanship.

 

So why didn't Harbinger kill Shepard? How did Shepard survive Harbinger's beam?

 

Now some will argue that Shepard wasn't directly hit by Harbinger and that's how he survived. But given Harbinger's previously shown tenacity for wanting to kill Shepard (including having already killed Shepard once at the beginning of ME2 and attempting to kill him again personally throughout ME2), what was stopping Harbinger from ensuring that Shepard was actually dead? Why didn't Harbinger hunt for Shepard's body and have it vaporized like everyone else that Harbinger killed? Why didn't it shoot the Normandy when it was within visual range? Wasn't there even a scene with Harbinger looking right at the ship when it took off after the heartwarming good-bye scene?

 

Why did he leave? Why did he only leave the 3 Huskateers and Marauder Shields behind to mop up any survivors? Survivors who would undo all of the reaper's plans by merely entering the Teleportation beam? Why not send a Banshee and more than one Marauder down? How about another Destroyer Reaper since Harbinger was previously shown in another cutscene to have been accompanied by several other reapers?

 

FTR: These questions operate under the assumption that the Indoctrination Theory is false (Nothing against it).

 

Oh come on. My Shepard took four direct hits from Harbinger's beam on her stroll to the beam before that mako flipped and nothing happened to her. Therefore that last hit should have done what? Absolutely nothing!

 

Shepard was hit on the head by debris and knocked unconscious. Then there was a wardrobe change. While she was unconscious those who were doing the change beat her with a baseball bat until they broke some ribs, and stabbed her in the shoulder so she would bleed. They stole her Medi-gel, Cerberus Harrier and that silenced pistol. Then they put this burned looking suit on her and left her with a Carnifex. When she woke up she had to get to the beam. Meanwhile Harbinger had ordered pizza and when it was delivered he took off to join the battle in space. The three huskateers and Marauder Shields were to take care of Shepard. It would be difficult especially with that screen shake. Marauder Shields is the final boss. He dies as Marauder Health. 

 

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And those "Thanix Missiles?" They're thanix! It's that simple. Understand something about shields. They're nothing more than a game mechanic. They do not work in cut scenes. They do not work in the novels. Not at all. If I'm writing a story and I need X reaper taken out by something it will die. 

 

Regarding the Evacuation Scene? There is this: http://social.biowar...55/blog/233327/

[von uber]

Regarding shields. . TIM was very careless not to have any. So was the VS.

[archangel1996]

Oh come on. My Shepard took four direct hits from Harbinger's beam on her stroll to the beam before that mako flipped and nothing happened to her. Therefore that last hit should have done what? Absolutely nothing!

 

Shepard was hit on the head by debris and knocked unconscious. Then there was a wardrobe change. While she was unconscious those who were doing the change beat her with a baseball bat until they broke some ribs, and stabbed her in the shoulder so she would bleed. They stole her Medi-gel, Cerberus Harrier and that silenced pistol. Then they put this burned looking suit on her and left her with a Carnifex. When she woke up she had to get to the beam. Meanwhile Harbinger had ordered pizza and when it was delivered he took off to join the battle in space. The three huskateers and Marauder Shields were to take care of Shepard. It would be difficult especially with that screen shake. Marauder Shields is the final boss. He dies as Marauder Health. 

 

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And those "Thanix Missiles?" They're thanix! It's that simple. Understand something about shields. They're nothing more than a game mechanic. They do not work in cut scenes. They do not work in the novels. Not at all. If I'm writing a story and I need X reaper taken out by something it will die. 

 

Regarding the Evacuation Scene? There is this: http://social.biowar...55/blog/233327/

 

That would explain the Carnifex, you're on to soemthing there

 

In all seriousness, probaly Harbinger knew that Shep knew that "that God-Mod Laser Beam hurt him/her"... so he left, content, to go around destroying ships before his boss, The Casper, who went half ret*ard during ME1, went full reta*rd(too)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I mean Shepard and her team should have had their bad ass moment right then just walking up to the beam with Harbinger blowing up everything around them, and nothing touching them. Have it go cut scene. That mako flips over them and misses them and they keep walking. Two husks come out. One squadmate takes one, the other squadmate takes the other, and then you get to shoot Marauder Shields in bullet-time. Then the three of you go up the beam. That would have been action film bad ass. WTF were they thinking?

[archangel1996]

Mama Sovereign should have returned too, imagine her(yep, Sovereign is a she *_*) and Papa Harbi fighting over Shep

[zed888]

 

 

It is a bit convenient that those two are the only survivors of course. They probably should have thrown in a few red shirt 'survivors' just to make it more believable.

I always like to imagine it was a human redshirt or maybe James who made it up to the kid and got the Chosen One treatment/choices.

[shepskisaac]

There's a few more questions too like why the Reapers didn't just turn the beam off. Also where did the rest of the Reapers that broke off go? Why didn't Coates renew the strike once Harbinger and the 4 ground forces left to protect the beam were dispatched?

There's new Human Reaper production going, they need the beam for it.

 

Harby leaving the scene works in the context of chasing the retreating Hammer forces (happens when Shep is on ground all burned).

 

But yeah, Harby not shooting the Normandy is like urhm. But I prefer that to teleporting squadmates

[ImaginaryMatter]

There's new Human Reaper production going, they need the beam for it.

 

Harby leaving the scene works in the context of chasing the retreating Hammer forces (happens when Shep is on ground all burned).

 

But yeah, Harby not shooting the Normandy is like urhm. But I prefer that to teleporting squadmates

 

I figured that's why they had the beam on in the first place, but they weren't harvesting during the counter-attack. They even had a couple of hours to figure out what the meatbags were doing to plan accordingly.

[themikefest]

Instead of having the Normandy show up why not have the squadmates stay in cover and when its clear they call for a shuttle while Shepard contiues running to the beam? Of course that would make too much sense.

 

The other way is to have the two squadmates killed regardless of ems.

[Han Shot First]

Just how do you delay a Reaper? They can fly right through ships crossing their paths without even losing speed.

 

Who knows. It all happens off screen. 

 

But Hackett's order did seem to be put there as an explanation for why only Harbinger makes to London in time.

[Kingthlayer]

Instead of having the Normandy show up why not have the squadmates stay in cover and when its clear they call for a shuttle while Shepard contiues running to the beam? Of course that would make too much sense.

 

The other way is to have the two squadmates killed regardless of ems.

 

I've always thought the evacuation scene would be better with Cortez coming to pick them up, that way they could have also added a good bye scene for the Steve romance.  And since his shuttle is on Earth already, it makes a lot more sense than the Normandy coming in.  You also have to go out of your way for Steve to die by purposely ignoring his content.

 

And if Cortez is dead, then have the other two die.  I would finally be able to import my main Shepard from Mass Effect 2 with all alien squad mates dead.

[Han Shot First]

I've always thought the evacuation scene would be better with Cortez coming to pick them up, that way they could have also added a good bye scene for the Steve romance.  And since his shuttle is on Earth already, it makes a lot more sense than the Normandy coming in.  You also have to go out of your way for Steve to die by purposely ignoring his content.

 

And if Cortez is dead, then have the other two die.  I would finally be able to import my main Shepard from Mass Effect 2 with all alien squad mates dead.

 

 

I thought that was how the EC should have played out as well. Rather than the Normandy doing the evac it should have been one of the shuttles. If Cortez attempts it the two squadmates (as well as that random Alliance grunt) get successfully evacuated, if Cortez is dead some other pilot attempts it, gets shot down while enroute, and the two squadmates die.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I thought that was how the EC should have played out as well. Rather than the Normandy doing the evac it should have been one of the shuttles. If Cortez attempts it the two squadmates (as well as that random Alliance grunt) get successfully evacuated, if Cortez is dead some other pilot attempts it, gets shot down while enroute, and the two squadmates die.

 

I remember I had a scenario based on a choice where its possible to have one or both of the squadmates killed. David hated it because for him, he didn't know what choice could result in which squadmate might die, and his beloved Liara was in too much danger.

[themikefest]

I remember I had a scenario based on a choice where its possible to have one or both of the squadmates killed. David hated it because for him, he didn't know what choice could result in which squadmate might die, and his beloved Liara was in too much danger.

Yeah he did. He cried like a baby with that suggestion.

[Han Shot First]

I remember I had a scenario based on a choice where its possible to have one or both of the squadmates killed. David hated it because for him, he didn't know what choice could result in which squadmate might die, and his beloved Liara was in too much danger.

 

There are some things I agree with David on, but that is one area where we have differences of opinion. I'd rather there not be an option to save everyone on the squad. 

 

If it were up to me I would have had the final mission be a suicide mission with all hands on deck (surviving ME1, ME2, and ME3 characters) and where some casualties could not be avoided, and player choices or actions determined how many and who would die, Liara included. I liked the idea behind what Bioware originally had planned for Thessia, though I would have shifted any Virmire moments to the end run.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

There are some things I agree with David on, but that is one area where we have differences of opinion. I'd rather there not be an option to save everyone on the squad. 

 

If it were up to me I would have had the final mission be a suicide mission with all hands on deck (surviving ME1, ME2, and ME3 characters) and where some casualties could not be avoided, and player choices or actions determined how many and who would die, Liara included. I liked the idea behind what Bioware originally had planned for Thessia, though I would have shifted any Virmire moments to the end run.

 

I agree. As far as mandatory deaths go, I don't think that any character's death should be mandatory, but I do think that every character should be killable and that a character death should be mandatory in certain areas.

 

For example, low EMS or missing a certain war asset at a point might get a character killed in a place they might have lived. These are the avoidable deaths that revolve around war assets or, ideally, around a system of asset distribution on the battlefield (just because you could have every/enough war assets does not mean that you used them wisely or effectively, etc.)

 

At the same time, there should be Virmire style decisions alongside that where 'a' death is mandatory, but you can choose who does what.

 

And lastly, I think that making a number of choices during the final decision should mean a character dies. For example, you get a distress call from a pinned down unit: You can either go save them, or you can continue to advance to the objective. The choice could result in a death from you wasting time to help said unit and giving the enemy time to reinforce your attack point, meaning that you lose someone who might have survived if you had secured the objective and set up your own hasty ambush. You can sacrifice some nameless soldiers, or you can lose a squadmate. Your call. And the entire mission would have the capability of being a complete bloodbath, to getting off easy, losing only 2 or 3 characters.

 

Also, said characters don't necessarily have to be squadmates either, though they would all fall under that penumbra. 

[von uber]

Tbh I think deaths in me1 & 2 should be kept down (along with the numbers of squad mates) but in me3 everyone should be at risk , with low ems increasing the risk.
For example low ems up to thessia increases liaras chance of death on the mission.
This would reduce writing issues, allow more character development for the remaining squad and make their deaths in 3 have more impact.

[thehomeworld]

To me it seems this was one of the scenes they couldn't remove from the origional script the where shep was suppose to become a reaper pawn and or ally they simply rewrote the script, the reason for Harbi being there, and added a few extra set peices thats why this, and TIMs battle really don't make much sense. One thing we do know is Harbi wanted shep mind and body he told him as much and fallowing the logical line of Arrival this should've happened and in the origional script probably did shep became Harbi's pawn. The reworked script however now leaves a confusing laser escape one could say Harbi stopped the beam before it reached shep allowing only the sheer heat to overwhelm him it melted the armor but details are just that BW didn't help things by removing his/her helmet and guns having them fused in a giant heap on his/her back and leg would've worked, and angel at which shep wakes up is also all wrong if the laser hit she would've melted there if it was someone directed into the ground to throw shep she should've landed away from that spot instead she is facing the beam as though she'd run at it and collapsed without looking towards harbi at all, the helmet we could've had a moment in the fog where someone had cut it off to try and help Shep but the context was gone replaced by the game says so.

 

So being the game says shep now magically loses his helmet and guns and is shell shocked it is what we have to go on. Why did Harbi leave when he could've done anything to  shep. Harbi leaving seems to be an add in there is no other need for Harbi to fly away no need to attend to new targets unless the reapers were losing that badly and we know at this point in time that wasn't happening it was another contrived moment. Why not sit on the device or better yet turn it off so no one else tries to make a run for it?

 

If this moment was meant to be the shep is a reaper pawn one could've pulled a Spec Ops here have the player think for instance Murader sheilds was an eneimy and what it was was Anderson who'd run from the tank to make a bid for the beam himself as shep fired Anderson quickly figured out that Shep's reaper side had been taken over and tried to stop him from indangering the mission any further. They could've pulled a Twilight Zone and rewrote what the player sees and hears then reveal upon sheps death or preservation  of life that what he thought and what was were two different things as he was under Harbi's control but being how they got new writers for ME3 I doubt they could've pulled something that required this much care off they did more then just a few things wrong between character relationships, their personalities, their wants, the outcomes of past choices, the entire mishandling of the LP, heck they even thougt writing shep as a morron in some instances where he had a vast knowledge on the subject at hand was a good choice!

[Han Shot First]

Tbh I think deaths in me1 & 2 should be kept down (along with the numbers of squad mates) but in me3 everyone should be at risk , with low ems increasing the risk.
For example low ems up to thessia increases liaras chance of death on the mission.
This would reduce writing issues, allow more character development for the remaining squad and make their deaths in 3 have more impact.

 

In retrospect thats the best way to go if you are doing a trilogy or duology rather than just a one-off.

 

Its best to save the majority of the potential character deaths for the last chapter. With ME3 Bioware ran into a problem with having too many potential squadmates (plus potential deaths and romance/friendship variables) to account for, all but guaranteeing that some where going to have small cameos that left their respective fanbases disappointed. 

[von uber]

Yep.
For example you could easily remove Thane, jacob, grunt and samara from me2, with their loyalty mission time given over to developing the collector / reaper plot more. If you want a death then make it another virmire style thing (although obviously in a different form) or maybe the chance to kill off the VS.
Kasumi and zaeed are fine as cameo dlc.
You can scrap vega and allers from me3 also.

[Lost Mercenary]

Unlike the other Reapers, Harbinger seems able to fire multiple beams in rapid succession whilst the others seem limited to one or two bursts with a good number of seconds between each volley. Harbingers multi-beam could be in order to deal with the dozens of small mobile targets and its not unreasonable to assume this would drain their firepower somewhat.

[Argolas]

Unlike the other Reapers, Harbinger seems able to fire multiple beams in rapid succession whilst the others seem limited to one or two bursts with a good number of seconds between each volley. Harbingers multi-beam could be in order to deal with the dozens of small mobile targets and its not unreasonable to assume this would drain their firepower somewhat.

 

Reapers are supposed to fire molten metal while Harby seems to use a laser. If a Reaper's main gun fired at that place all soldiers would be blown up with one shot.

[grey_wind]

Yep.
For example you could easily remove Thane, jacob, grunt and samara from me2, with their loyalty mission time given over to developing the collector / reaper plot more. If you want a death then make it another virmire style thing (although obviously in a different form) or maybe the chance to kill off the VS.
Kasumi and zaeed are fine as cameo dlc.
You can scrap vega and allers from me3 also.

I wouldn't say you have to necessarily cut characters for that. With the exception of Jacob (and obviously the DLC characters), most of the ME2 squadmates brought a lot of interesting new perspectives that helped expand the universe. Their loyalty and recruitment missions should have just tied into the Collector/Reaper plot better. For example, tracking down Okeer for information about the Collectors (and then acquiring Grunt who's made from Collector technology) could have been expanded into revelatory plot points about the Collectors.