196 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Actually they violently seized in it in a brutal coup but the point remains.

 

Only after it had been taken from them forcibly under Hessarian. Prior to that, they had always had their freedom, something the rest of Andrastian Thedas lacks

[Master Warder Z_]

Only after it had been taken from them forcibly under Hessarian. Prior to that, they had always had their freedom, something the rest of Andrastian Thedas lacks

 

When it comes to Mages? For Good reason.

[Hellion Rex]

The Imperium never treated mages as ordinary citizens; Darinius and his followers launched a coup after being bolstered with blood magic from Dumat or someone.

Huh? You are referring to Darinius, the first Archon, yes? Where does it say that he launched a coup?

[AresKeith]

Well, the issue with the anti-mage movement is: that it assumes that every mage is guilty without the chance to prove himself innocent.

Mages are capable of taking out their own trash like every other society.

 

Should the voices of reason between mages be allowed to be the ones who set the tone, I believe that a system can be created, both to police magical crimes, and to block eventualities like power hungry fools trying to ruin everyone's lives for the sake of their own twisted desires.

 

The particulars of said system are important, but more so is a real desire to achive a state of peaceful co-existance.

Checks and balances, a specialised police force, and a justice system are part of that.

 

So in other words both the anti-mage and pro-mage movement both have problems

[Hellion Rex]

When it comes to Mages? For Good reason.

And yet it is still a little off to compare the two, considering Andrastian Thedas (with templar, I might add) has not ever held freedom, whereas the Imperials have always had freedom in regards to magic. Also, the Imperial Templars are pretty much worthless, whereas the Andrastian Templar hold a hell of a lot of power.

[Hellion Rex]

So in other words both the anti-mage and pro-mage movement both have problems

Stop making sense!!!

[Laughing_Man]

So in other words both the anti-mage and pro-mage movement both have problems

 

Yeah well, the precieved problem with the pro-mage movement that was mentioned, is based on an assumption.

And it also disregards solutions like the one I suggested above, and other possible solutions that were raised on this forum in the past.

 

No one sane wants another Tevinter, *some* compromises can be reached to prevent a few idiots trying to create i\something like it.

[Master Warder Z_]

And yet it is still a little off to compare the two, considering Andrastian Thedas (with templar, I might add) has not ever held freedom, whereas the Imperials have always had freedom in regards to magic. Also, the Imperial Templars are pretty much worthless, whereas the Andrastian Templar hold a hell of a lot of power.

 

Little to compare them to because before the Andrastrian Doctrines, Chantry and Modernization that came about the same time as the circle. Society was only exposed to mages through abominations, Shamans and Witches. They hand't seized control of Society outside of the Imperium.

 

I grant you that isn't an overly accurate comparison, but its due to how the lore is structured, not any overt fault of the argument.

 

I am looking at it in the light that it was better then what they had before and better then alternative of magic dominating every facet of society. 

 

So  if you look at the Pre Circle Thedosian Mages with the Abominations, Lack of Education and extremely short life span and then compare it to the circle that housed, taught and kept mages safe for centuries.

 

I'd say the Mages got the better end of the deal.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah well, the precieved problem with the pro-mage movement that was mentioned, is based on an assumption.

And it also disregards solutions like the one I suggested above, and other possible solutions that were raised on this forum in the past.

 

No one sane wants another Tevinter, *some* compromises can be reached to prevent a few idiots trying to create i\something like it.

 

Like you're argument that is also based on the assumption that when a niche is offered, it will not be exploited.

 

Excuse me for thinking Mages to be men and not above base corruption.

[EmissaryofLies]

You all have problems.

 

Pro-Mages want their freedom at the cost of others. Pro-Templars want to keep the mages as slaves or wipe them out. The compromisers just want to hug everything and believe that it'll all go away, aka Elthina.

[AresKeith]

The compromisers just want to hug everything and believe that it'll all go away, aka Elthina.

 

lol no

[Hellion Rex]

You all have problems.

 

Pro-Mages want their freedom at the cost of others. Pro-Templars want to keep the mages as slaves or wipe them out. The compromisers just want to hug everything and believe that it'll all go away, aka Elthina.

I cannot tell when you are being sarcastic or serious sometimes....

[EmissaryofLies]

Caricatures of established positions.

 

Flying kites is fun.

[Master Warder Z_]

I cannot tell when you are being sarcastic or serious sometimes....

 

Agreed...I don't think any one has mentioned enslaving mages in a serious light...though i did joke about it once or twice in a few threads

 

You know having mages act as footmen and what have you.

[Hellion Rex]

Caricatures of established positions.

 

Flying kites is fun.

[Hellion Rex]

Back on topic, Cassandra doesn't hate mages. She's wary of them, which is understandable given what happened to her brother, but she doesn't hate them.

[Laughing_Man]

Like you're argument that is also based on the assumption that when a niche is offered, it will not be exploited.

 

Excuse me for thinking Mages to be men and not above base corruption.

 

There is no niche.

There are only normal mages living their lives in peace, and criminal mages getting their heads chopped off by a justice system that is fairer than the one the religious fanatics devised.

[Hellion Rex]

There is no niche.

There are only normal mages living their lives in peace, and criminal mages getting their heads chopped off by a justice system that is fairer than the one the religious fanatics devised.

Ummm, are you referring to a hypothetical justice system?

[Laughing_Man]

Ummm, are you referring to a hypothetical justice system?

Yes, I'm reffering to a possible solution.

[EmissaryofLies]

Wonder if you can use the staff of violation on Cassandra...

[Hellion Rex]

Wonder if you can use the staff of violation on Cassandra...

[Master Warder Z_]

There is no niche.

There are only normal mages living their lives in peace, and criminal mages getting their heads chopped off by a justice system that is fairer than the one the religious fanatics devised.

 

You underestimate greed.

 

It can be beaten and overridden but not with out effort.

 

There would be no system to keep it check in this proposed world beyond "magical policemen" that may or may not merely be relegated to inefficiency the moment the mages decide to stop pretending.

[Laughing_Man]

You underestimate greed.

 

It can be beaten and overridden but not with out effort.

 

There would be no system to keep it check in this proposed world beyond "magical policemen" that may or may not merely be relegated to inefficiency the moment the mages decide to stop pretending.

 

Again, you assume that most mages are like that.

I can see reasonable "good" mages, standing shoulder to shoulder with their non-magical bretheren, to prevent and stop magical crimes.

There are no magical solutions to the problem, one gets greedy? You find him with your investigators. Like every normal LEA is supposed to do.

 

Edit:

 

In any case, finding reasons why a solution is not good enough to plug all possible holes is easy.

But this does not excuse the continued abuse and rape - figurative and literal that was going on until now.

 

Justice the spirit, before he went corrupted, said that it was unjust. And in the end, that should be enough for most people to want to find a better solution.

[Master Warder Z_]

Again, you assume that most mages are like that.

I can see reasonable "good" mages, standing shoulder to shoulder with their non-magical bretheren, to prevent and stop magical crimes.

There are no magical solutions to the problem, one gets greedy? You find him with your investigators. Like every normal LEA is supposed to do.

 

And again you assume most mages or people aren't like that

 

Mages fell pray to corruption regardless of the nobility of intent.

 

Sometimes you just have enforce stability, This is one of those situations.