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[Laughing_Man]

And again you assume most mages or people aren't like that

 

Mages fell pray to corruption regardless of the nobility of intent.

 

Sometimes you just have enforce stability, This is one of those situations.

 

One, that means that we can also assume that most templars are evil-murdering-raping-cannibals, right?

How can you trust their greed then?

 

Two, I just use the people I know as possible mages. Most of them are good people more-or-less.

Everyone has a darker side, but most people just want to live their life, and should their lives be threatened by madman,

they would protect themselves and their loved-ones in the name of reason, mutual benefit, the greater good, a sense of justice, and so forth.

[Master Warder Z_]

One, that means that we can also assume that most templars are evil-murdering-raping-cannibals, right?

How can you trust their greed then?

 

Two, I just use the people I know as possible mages. Most of them are good people more-or-less.

Everyone has a darker side, but most people just want to live their life, and should their lives be threatened by madman,

they would protect themselves and their loved-ones in the name of reason, mutual benefit, the greater good, a sense of justice, and so forth.

 

One Because their existence is mandated by the existence of Mages, with out the later the former doesn't exist.

 

They are a temporary measure turned permanent.

 

Two as long as you control the Lyrium, you maintain the control for their behavior, They can become whatever you wish them to be, I do so adore how the Chantry made behavior modification so easy for their soldiers.

 

And three; We most knew quite a few different people then, most of the specimens of humanity i have met haven't be overly impressive in either regard of mortality or constraint.

 

So if their own failings and idiocy therefore harm the species, they must be curtailed if they cannot be culled, Magic is a curse to linger at least for now and therefore it must be contained as best as can be.

[Mistic]

Again, you assume that most mages are like that.

I can see reasonable "good" mages, standing shoulder to shoulder with their non-magical bretheren, to prevent and stop magical crimes.

There are no magical solutions to the problem, one gets greedy? You find him with your investigators. Like every normal LEA is supposed to do.

 

Agreed. In fact, and relating this to Cassandra (you know, the thread is supposed to be actually about her and her views on mages), in Dawn of the Seeker it was the loyal Circle Mages who stopped the conspirators in the end. The Templars were being leaded by a corrupt Kinight-Commander and the Seekers were fooled by him. The Chantry was saved that day from dragons, blood mages and traitors thanks to Cassandra and the Circle Mages, never forget that.

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed. In fact, and relating this to Cassandra (you know, the thread is supposed to be actually about her and her views on mages), in Dawn of the Seeker it was the loyal Circle Mages who stopped the conspirators in the end. The Templars were being leaded by a corrupt Kinight-Commander and the Seekers were fooled by him. The Chantry was saved that day from dragons, blood mages and traitors thanks to Cassandra and the Circle Mages, never forget that.

 

*Promptly Overlooks it*

 

They saved the day from whom again?

 

Oh that's right.

 

Mages and their pet templar.

[Laughing_Man]

*Promptly Overlooks it*

 

They saved the day from whom again?

 

Oh that's right.

 

Mages and their pet templar.

What you overlook, is that there was A danger, and thanks in part to "good" mages, the day was saved.

This is exactly what I said earlier about resonable voices fighting against insanity.

[Mistic]

*Promptly Overlooks it*

 

They saved the day from whom again?

 

Oh that's right.

 

Mages and their pet templar.

 

Good one. But let me rephrase it:

 

They saved the day from whom again?

 

Oh, that's right.

 

Templars and their pet mages

 

Ah, that they were "corrupt" templars, so we can't judge the rest of the Templars by the actions of a handful. Fair enough. But the same can be said about blood mages not representing the vast majority of the mages. Some people forget that Aequitarians and Loyalists comprise the larger part of the Circle mages, and that being a Libertarian doesn't mean being a blood mage or a terrorist.

[Laughing_Man]

One Because their existence is mandated by the existence of Mages, with out the later the former doesn't exist.

 

They are a temporary measure turned permanent.

 

Two as long as you control the Lyrium, you maintain the control for their behavior, They can become whatever you wish them to be, I do so adore how the Chantry made behavior modification so easy for their soldiers.

 

And three; We most knew quite a few different people then, most of the specimens of humanity i have met haven't be overly impressive in either regard of mortality or constraint.

 

So if their own failings and idiocy therefore harm the species, they must be curtailed if they cannot be culled, Magic is a curse to linger at least for now and therefore it must be contained as best as can be.

 

I get a bitter taste in my mouth when I see people suggest "culling" as a viable option against humans, no matter what their "extra" is.

Even in fantasy settings.

It reminds me that there are people in real life that would like to do the same to other groups of people for various outlandish reasons.

It doesn't help that my grandmother was an auschwitz survivor.

 

Your "solution" which I assume is to continue as if nothing ever happend, inevitably leads to more suffering and bloodshed.

The plus in a compromise, is that while no one is completely happy with it, it brings a chance for peace.

Violence and abuse usually begets more violence and abuse.

Sometimes you simply can't help it. But if violence and abuse are your first choice, than you are in trouble.

 

The only thing you need for a peaceful end to the conflict and a better solution, is the will from both sides to make some compromises.

[Master Warder Z_]

Good one. But let me rephrase it:

 

They saved the day from whom again?

 

Oh, that's right.

 

Templars and their pet mages

 

Ah, that they were "corrupt" templars, so we can't judge the rest of the Templars by the actions of a handful. Fair enough. But the same can be said about blood mages not representing the vast majority of the mages. Some people forget that Aequitarians and Loyalists comprise the larger part of the Circle mages, and that being a Libertarian doesn't mean being a blood mage or a terrorist.

 

...The Templars weren't directing the Mages though, if anything it was the other way around. Knight Commander mook was doing it for some odd reason or another that happened to align with whatever insanity head blood mage cooked up.

 

._. I mean if you are trying to discredit the Templars at least pick a opportunity where they were actually in control of the situation!

 

Like DA 2.

[Laughing_Man]

Knight Commander mook was doing it for some odd reason or another that happened to align with whatever insanity head blood mage cooked up.

 

Yeah, that's an old trick.

Call him weird and mookish, he's just one bad apple. It dosen't say anything about Templars in general. As opposed to criminal mages of course.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, that's an old trick.

Call him weird and mookish, he's just one bad apple. It dosen't say anything about Templars in general. As opposed to criminal mages of course.

 

Considering he would have likely have been killed by other templars as any other blood mage? I'd say so.

 

Mages combating their own kind for corruption is a rarity, its the exception, the not the rule.

[Master Warder Z_]

All mages are potential criminals. 

 

And true!

[KaiserShep]

All mages are potential criminals. 

 

Man, isn't everyone?

[MisterJB]

Agreed. In fact, and relating this to Cassandra (you know, the thread is supposed to be actually about her and her views on mages), in Dawn of the Seeker it was the loyal Circle Mages who stopped the conspirators in the end. The Templars were being leaded by a corrupt Kinight-Commander and the Seekers were fooled by him. The Chantry was saved that day from dragons, blood mages and traitors thanks to Cassandra and the Circle Mages, never forget that.

And they managed to accomplish that without tearing down a system that helps prevent the criminal use of magic, Abominations and magical dominance of society.

[Mistic]

...The Templars weren't directing the Mages though, if anything it was the other way around. Knight Commander mook was doing it for some odd reason or another that happened to align with whatever insanity head blood mage cooked up.

 

._. I mean if you are trying to discredit the Templars at least pick a opportunity where they were actually in control of the situation!

 

Like DA 2.

 

Yes, that Knight-Commander was stupid. Providing a blood mage with a girl capable of controlling dragons? And then thinking that you will be able to get rid of him easily when he has outlived his usefulness? Idiot. Lambert may hold similar ideas ("the Divine is weak, too soft with mages, the Chantry needs a strong leader..."), but at least Lambert was honest enough to remember that he had a duty.

 

But the point stands: both Templars and Seekers as a whole were ineffectual in dealing with the 9:22 crisis, while the Circle Mages saved the day. That doesn't mean mages aren't dangerous, but it provides proof that the Mages can help in policing themselves. I wouldn't left them alone, though. Maybe mages will check themselves eagerly against abominations (happens in Tevinter and among the Dalish), but power abuse is still too much of a proble.

[KaiserShep]

Sure, but the presence of magical capacity increases one's likelihood. It's like a permanent power-up in Mario.

 

Insofar that merely existing outside of the Circle as a mage increases this likelihood as it would probably be against the law.

[Laughing_Man]

Sure, but the presence of magical capacity increases one's likelihood. It's like a permanent power-up in Mario.

 

What increases one's chances to become a criminal is not a mario power-up, but rather the nature of his character, and things like whether his life were full of abuse, whether he was brainwashed to believe that he was cursed by some god and to hate his own existance, whether he has any kind of life he is content with and does not want to risk it all by commiting a crime.

 

I could go on, but I think I made my point.

[Laughing_Man]

And they managed to accomplish that without tearing down a system that helps prevent the criminal use of magic.

 

That is the question isn't it?

 

I mean, you don't have to care about little things like justice and compassion, but isn't the current situation enough to question whether a solution that will leave mages more content with their lives better than the current system? People who are more or less content with their lives, rarely do things that risk them losing everything.

 

And after all, the current system is what caused the current situation, not to mention didn't stop the bloodshed and the "criminal-use" of magic. (I'm not talking about who blew who's church, I'm talking about the long period of discontent that led to the current situation.)

 

Saying that the current system is the best there is, ignoring all the suffering and abuse it caused,

and refusing to look for a more benign solution, is heartless, narrow-minded, and foolish.

[Master Warder Z_]

That is the question isn't it?

 

I mean, you don't have to care about little things like justice and compassion, but isn't the current situation enough to question whether a solution that will leave mages more content with their lives better than the current system?

 

The Circle was put in place to Educate and Protect, Contentment isn't its purpose nor is it a right justified to mages anymore then it is to normal people and they are not normal people. They are a threat, they carry magic within them, access to forbidden magic, possible demon possession risks, they present issues far beyond what any normal person would.

 

Ergo the situation as it stands is by far the best choice, Mages are allowed to live and normal people can live their lives with out being present to the threat magic pertains the majority of the time. 

 

Justifying the possibility of mass enslavement of every person within Thedas at the hands of magic and mages merely because it would make their possible masters happy to me isn't much of an argument.

[EmissaryofLies]

That is the question isn't it?

 

I mean, you don't have to care about little things like justice and compassion, but isn't the current situation enough to question whether a solution that will leave mages more content with their lives better than the current system? People who are more or less content with their lives, rarely do things that risk them losing everything.

 

And after all, the current system is what caused the current situation, not to mention didn't stop the bloodshed and the "criminal-use" of magic. (I'm not talking about who blew who's church, I'm talking about the long period of discontent that led to the current situation.)

 

Saying that the current system is the best there is, ignoring all the suffering and abuse it caused,

and refusing to look for a more benign solution, is heartless, narrow-minded, and foolish.

 

Agreed.

 

It's a shame that some seem to believe that the only thing that matters is mundane security.

 

The mages simply must tolerate whatever is thrown at them and remain reasonable no matter what is done to them. As you said, we've seen where that has led.

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed.

 

It's a shame that some seem to believe that the only thing that matters is mundane security.

 

The mages simply must tolerate whatever is thrown at them and remain reasonable no matter what is done to them. As you said, we've seen where that has led.

 

Erm did you miss the part where i stated the circle existed to protect Mages as well?

 

I just also point out they are a vast minority within Thedas, even the Imperium.

 

The Majority should be protected from the threat they present.

 

That's all.

[renfrees]

Agreed.

 

It's a shame that some seem to believe that the only thing that matters is mundane security.

 

The mages simply must tolerate whatever is thrown at them and remain reasonable no matter what is done to them. As you said, we've seen where that has led.

Sadly, i don't think mundanes got it much better (if we exclude crazed Kirkwall's circle), apart from regular military and nobility. Remember, it's medieval setting after all.

[EmissaryofLies]

Erm did you miss the part where i stated the circle existed to protect Mages as well?

 

I just also point out they are a vast minority within Thedas, even the Imperium.

 

The Majority should be protected from the threat they present.

 

That's all.

 

This amounts to absolutely nothing.

 

You can justify just about anything in the name of 'protection'. Protection like the mafia? Protection like martial law? Protection like internment camps? Protection like 1984?

 

That's what I've always had a problem with, it's perfectly ok to do whatever the hell you please to a minority as long as you're not on the receiving end. It is maddening and it is sick.

[EmissaryofLies]

Sadly, i don't think mundanes got it much better (if we exclude crazed Kirkwall's circle), apart from regular military and nobility. Remember, it's medieval setting after all.

 

Fair enough.

 

But at least they have sliver of a chance at improving their lot in life.