Fair enough.
But at least they have sliver of a chance at improving their lot in life.
Perennial routine enslaves you much better than any Chantry or Magister could. You become a slave to habits and your own mind.
Remember - "everything was fine until today"?
This amounts to absolutely nothing.
You can justify just about anything in the name of 'protection'. Protection like the mafia? Protection like martial law? Protection like internment camps? Protection like 1984?
That's what I've always had a problem with, it's perfectly ok to do whatever the hell you please to a minority as long as you're not on the receiving end. It is maddening and it is sick.
No it amounts as a secured and balanced solution for both parties, mages are kept safe, allowed to be what they are and humanity is protected from them.
And quoting instances of "protection" does nothing to me, Hyperbole and dramatics win you naught.
No its practical and it ensures safety and stability for all.
And Morality to me is something you shouldn't govern lives with, It invites conflict and strife into what should be simple exercise of assisting people.
Perennial routine enslaves you much better than any Chantry or Magister could. You become a slave to habits and your own mind.
Remember - "everything was fine until today"?
I am not so sure about that.
I am not so sure about that.
Worst slavery is when you don't think of yourself as a slave.
No it amounts as a secured and balanced solution for both parties, mages are kept safe, allowed to be what they are and humanity is protected from them.
And quoting instances of "protection" does nothing to me, Hyperbole and dramatics win you naught.
No its practical and it ensures safety and stability for all.
And Morality to me is something you shouldn't govern lives with, It invites conflict and strife into what should be simple exercise of assisting people.
It isn't hyperbole, it is not dramatic. Or you do you mean 'protected' like the mages in Fereldan were? When their 'protection' locked them in a tower with abominations due to their own impotence? Like they are 'protected' when thrown against a demon to see what happens, with the alternative being death or lobotomy? Is that what you're referring to when you talk about 'protection'? Or do you mean protected like when Gregoir slapped that pregnant mage in the comics? Protected like the mages were in Kirkwall?
Apparently you and I have radically different perceptions of the concept of "protection".
As for you last point, the Qun has what you're looking for.
Worst slavery is when you don't think of yourself as a slave.
Why do you believe that?
Why do you believe that?
A strange question 
A strange question
Awwww, don't evade me baby, I don't bite.
Awwww, don't evade me baby, I don't bite.
I'd rather you do 
As to answer - you don't dream of freedom, if you don't think yourself a slave.
That is the question isn't it?
I mean, you don't have to care about little things like justice and compassion, but isn't the current situation enough to question whether a solution that will leave mages more content with their lives better than the current system? People who are more or less content with their lives, rarely do things that risk them losing everything.
And after all, the current system is what caused the current situation, not to mention didn't stop the bloodshed and the "criminal-use" of magic. (I'm not talking about who blew who's church, I'm talking about the long period of discontent that led to the current situation.)
Saying that the current system is the best there is, ignoring all the suffering and abuse it caused,
and refusing to look for a more benign solution, is heartless, narrow-minded, and foolish.
The current system did not cause this war; lack of adherence to it did. It is a good system; it separates people incapable of coexisting thus reducing violence between them. It allows for mages to practice their craft in ways that will not dominate society, either militarely, politically or economically. Separating potential blood mages and Abominations from the general population reduces the number of victims in case of accidents and increases Templar response time due to them being stationed just down the hall.
Yes, sacrifices are asked of mages but they are given much in return. They are clothed, fed, housed, educated, given rights and freedoms to be respected. In many ways, they live better lives than your average thedosian.
That is not to say it is a perfect system; improvements can certainly be made but the keyword here is "improvements". The Circle as it is must be the mase upon which we might improve and they must be reasonable. If the mages want to be kings and queens in order to avoid giving into demons, Thedas would be better served with a war.
Why does everyone assume Cassandra still hates mages?
I notice on some threads how some people compare Cassandra and Cullen to have the same mindset. But after watching Dawn of the Seeker it seemed to me she let her hatred go, even admitting to galyan that he changed how she saw things.
Not to say she isn't wary of mages. That part is practically bred into any DA character not a mage, but I figured she would have mellowed on mages over the past decade, at least IMO.
What are your thoughts on her stance?
I think, after watching Dawn of the Seeker, that Cassandra doesn't hate all mages anymore. She likely still has a profound and deep hatred towards blood mages. It's also quite possible that she'll have a constant suspicion towards mages that she doesn't personally know. I don't think she hates them, though.
The current system did not cause this war; lack of adherence to it did. It is a good system; it separates people incapable of coexisting thus reducing violence between them. It allows for mages to practice their craft in ways that will not dominate society, either militarely, politically or economically. Separating potential blood mages and Abominations from the general population reduces the number of victims in case of accidents and increases Templar response time due to them being stationed just down the hall.
Yes, sacrifices are asked of mages but they are given much in return. They are clothed, fed, housed, educated, given rights and freedoms to be respected. In many ways, they live better lives than your average thedosian.
That is not to say it is a perfect system; improvements can certainly be made but the keyword here is "improvements". The Circle as it is must be the mase upon which we might improve and they must be reasonable. If the mages want to be kings and queens in order to avoid giving into demons, Thedas would be better served with a war.
Mages and non-mages are capable of coexisting, and it's very ironic that the chantry is the one that destroyed the best example for such co-existance - the elves.
I don't advocate complete anarchy, not even complete freedom, however, the circle system was good - mostly to non mages.
And there lies the problem.
Mages are fed and clothed. What a joke.
Most mages would have been able to take care of themselves and more, had they been allowed some freedom.
They could have worked as healers, artists, craftsman, and obviously in various security jobs.
Whatever the job, magic will most likely make it easier, and the results will probably be better.
This will not "dominate society economically" either. Skill in magic is quite rare in the DA settings.
So first you cause the harm yourself, and then you should recieve thanks for putting a band-aid on a missing limb?
"...given rights and freedoms to be respected."
Are you talking about the right to marry? The right to raise your children? The right to go outside for a walk under the moonlight?
Or are you talking about the right to engage in the meaningless political games inside the circle?
This system is merely a partial reversion of the Tevinter system. The cruelty is there, and the abuse is also there.
But one of the worst parts of this system is the lack of justice in it.
Basic injustice that is ingrained in this system aside, Templars seem to be able to cause the execusion of a mage just with a claim that he or she are a "maleficar".
Evidance can be manifactured of course in the unlikely event that they are needed. Templars are very fond of sharp objects.
Can you imagine what kind of leverage this gives any templar over any mage?
So remind me why we are afraid of blood magic? Because of the possibility of mages going around and raping people?
Ironic isn't it? You guard against the *possibility* of a monster, and you become a monster yourself.
"The Circle as it is must be the mase upon which we might improve and they must be reasonable."
The circle system was created by man, not gods, and as the centuries passed, the system became clogged with corruption.
Of course, it's easy to be smug and self-assured when you are in a position of power, and again your justification and tone are becoming the same as those of a typical Magister. You have the might, so you crush those weaker than you.
There is always a better solution. Centuries have passed, you can learn from the mistakes of the past, and instead of rebuilding an abominable system that gives only the non-magicals security peace and calm, you can find better solutions that will leave less people subjugated and living in constant fear of death and abuse.
"If the mages want to be kings and queens in order to avoid giving into demons, Thedas would be better served with a war."
No sane mage wanted that. This is a shallow excuse in order to continue the subjugation.
There are solutions that do not include total-imprisonment and daily abuse that can leave most mages and most non-mages happy.
The chantry and the templars may be stronger now, but the megisters were also strongest until Andraste came.
Thedas would indeed be better served with war if the leading opinions are as close minded.
And after all the bloodshed, veil tears, abominations, and all the other unspeakble horros that the remaining desperate mages will unleash,
the surviving templars will be able to rule mountains of ash and bones.
Yeah, that was just a possible outcome that you might not like.
But, in truth, saying that "Thedas would be better served with war", is just typical of the narrow mindset of supporting-the-religious-side-no-matter-what.
No matter that the death and suffering will be greater than what was caused by all the abominations put together until this point.
Wrong thread for this, TheRedVipress. Try posting this in the Unequal Presentations thread.
Dead thread should have been left dead.
Wrong thread for this, TheRedVipress. Try posting this in the Unequal Presentations thread.
Just found the replay. They say better late than never.
Yeah, definitely the wrong place to post that ^^^^^
all though you DO have a point, doubt u'd get anything here. The thread is dead.....
Well, I do agree with Cassandra's view of mages has changed by the end of the film and that she doesn't have the same mind set as Cullen. However, since she is a confirmed companion of the Inquisitor I think we might be able to change her views to something else. Truth be told we even kinda changed Cullen's mind about the mages once or twice. If we play Origins as a mage and when we first meet Cullen (especially as a female) we see that he isn't that harsh about mages, he kinda thinks that mages should have their space or at the very least a bit more breathing room. He doesn't do that because he's just following orders. However, at the end of a "broken circle" he's views has certainly changed. Forgetting breathing room and going more firm believer of keeping a close watch. And it is clear in DA2 that mages should be watched even more closely, because it is his duty and his previous experience. However, again at the end of the game he starts question if this is really necessary, this time he actually questions his boss (aside from the fact that Meredith was obviously coo coo for cocoa puffs) but he did step it up and was actually brave enough to question the chain as to just following orders. Can't say the same for Cassandra because all we seen from her was a average movie and interrogation banter. Hard to tell what Cullen's thoughts on mages will be in Inquisition as is Cassandra's.
But one of the worst parts of this system is the lack of justice in it.Basic injustice that is ingrained in this system aside, Templars seem to be able to cause the execusion of a mage just with a claim that he or she are a "maleficar".
Evidance can be manifactured of course in the unlikely event that they are needed. Templars are very fond of sharp objects.
Can you imagine what kind of leverage this gives any templar over any mage?
You know what? I had completely forgotten about this and given how the popular opinion seems to be that dead threads should stay dead, I was actually going to ignore this.
However, this ****** hyperbole regarding the Templars and their willingness to go around killing every mage they see needs to ****** end.
If you side with Meredith's Annulment, some mages surrender. If Hawke speaks in their favor, the Templars spare them.
Then there were the seven times Anders escaped and was brought back.
The Templars sparing Alain despite him being a blood mage.
The Templars sparing the whole Circle of Starkhaven despite them being Apostates.
The Templars sparing Emille despite him being an Apostate.
The Templars sparing Idunna despite her being a blood mage and Apostate.
The Templars sparing Ella despite her having escaped the Circle.
The Templars sparing Connor despite him being an Apostate and former-Abomination.
The Templars sparing Bethany despite her being an Apostate her whole life.
Gregoir revoking the Right of Annulment despite the Circle being overrun and the possibility of everyone being possessed.
Feynriel being allowed to join the Circle despite being an Apostate his whole life.
So there you have it! A list; and not a complete one; of situations where not only did the Templars provide the mages with the benefit of doubt but even went so far as to spare mages that were clearly guilty.
Now, your turn. I expect a list just as extensive of situations where Templars killed mages for no good reason or falsified evidence.
You know what? I had completely forgotten about this and given how the popular opinion seems to be that dead threads should stay dead, I was actually going to ignore this.
However, this ****** hyperbole regarding the Templars and their willingness to go around killing every mage they see needs to ****** end.
If you side with Meredith's Annulment, some mages surrender. If Hawke speaks in their favor, the Templars spare them.
Then there were the seven times Anders escaped and was brought back.
The Templars sparing Alain despite him being a blood mage.
The Templars sparing the whole Circle of Starkhaven despite them being Apostates.
The Templars sparing Emille despite him being an Apostate.
The Templars sparing Idunna despite her being a blood mage and Apostate.
The Templars sparing Ella despite her having escaped the Circle.
The Templars sparing Connor despite him being an Apostate and former-Abomination.
The Templars sparing Bethany despite her being an Apostate her whole life.
Gregoir revoking the Right of Annulment despite the Circle being overrun and the possibility of everyone being possessed.Feynriel being allowed to join the Circle despite being an Apostate his whole life.
So there you have it! A list; and not a complete one; of situations where not only did the Templars provide the mages with the benefit of doubt but even went so far as to spare mages that were clearly guilty.
Now, your turn. I expect a list just as extensive of situations where Templars killed mages for no good reason or falsified evidence.
What she said is that they can, not that they necessarily always do. Also, every single mage in Kirkwall is on your list, as is every single mage in Ferelden's Circle if the Warden screws up. Plus Aneirin, and if we include Tranquility as we should, Jowan and a hell of a lot of others.
HOORAY! THREAD REVIVAL!!!
On another note
You know what? I had completely forgotten about this and given how the popular opinion seems to be that dead threads should stay dead, I was actually going to ignore this.
However, this ****** hyperbole regarding the Templars and their willingness to go around killing every mage they see needs to ****** end.
If you side with Meredith's Annulment, some mages surrender. If Hawke speaks in their favor, the Templars spare them.
Then there were the seven times Anders escaped and was brought back.
The Templars sparing Alain despite him being a blood mage.
The Templars sparing the whole Circle of Starkhaven despite them being Apostates.
The Templars sparing Emille despite him being an Apostate.
The Templars sparing Idunna despite her being a blood mage and Apostate.
The Templars sparing Ella despite her having escaped the Circle.
The Templars sparing Connor despite him being an Apostate and former-Abomination.
The Templars sparing Bethany despite her being an Apostate her whole life.
Gregoir revoking the Right of Annulment despite the Circle being overrun and the possibility of everyone being possessed.Feynriel being allowed to join the Circle despite being an Apostate his whole life.
So there you have it! A list; and not a complete one; of situations where not only did the Templars provide the mages with the benefit of doubt but even went so far as to spare mages that were clearly guilty.
Now, your turn. I expect a list just as extensive of situations where Templars killed mages for no good reason or falsified evidence.
Some of this can end in the totally different situation where the mages DO die and are NOT spared. e.g. lets kill connor the abomination, Let's annul every friggen mage in the circle and lets not forget that glorious moment when you allow your lyrium addled granny templar murder your favourite sister!
HOORAY! THREAD REVIVAL!!!
On another note
Some of this can end in the totally different situation where the mages DO die and are NOT spared. e.g. lets kill connor the abomination, Let's annul every friggen mage in the circle and lets not forget that glorious moment when you allow your lyrium addled granny templar murder your favourite sister!
Bethany should have been LI
._.
*Goes to sulk and read fanfiction*
Retour en haut
