34 ответов в этой теме

[robsonwt]

Ok so you might have been on to something about rate of fire.

Looking back with the script editor in the ammo power, it uses a function called "GetBulletsPerSecond."

 

This function returns RateofFire/60 for most weapons, but for the shotgun class it returns RateofFire / 60 * 8.

 

Now I need to look at the Talon and see what is going on...

 

Base freeze chance for Cryo Ammo is indeed 1.0.

 

I don't know if it is what really happening but kind of makes sense. The shotguns normally have a lower rate of fire but always have a some sort of splash damage because of the dispersion of pellets. If each pellet had the same ammo processing chance that a normal bullet from a pistol or sniper rifle, you would be able to freeze or at least chill a lot of targets at once in short range. Maybe it would be too easy.

[capn233]

I agree that from a practical standpoint, it makes sense to adjust shotgun rate of fire, but the way they appear to do that is just look if the weapon is in the shotgun class and use that to scale ROF by 8... I don't know how Talon is being adjusted in this case since it is in the pistol class, and I would think this method makes Crusader (1 projectile) and even GPS (3) less effective at ammo proc than they should be.

 

Needs testing.

 

As an aside, if you just want to freeze, the other issue with Talon would be that it is probably more likely to kill targets outright anyway, unless at mid to long range where it isn't landing shots accurately.

[robsonwt]

I agree that from a practical standpoint, it makes sense to adjust shotgun rate of fire, but the way they appear to do that is just look if the weapon is in the shotgun class and use that to scale ROF by 8... I don't know how Talon is being adjusted in this case since it is in the pistol class, and I would think this method makes Crusader (1 projectile) and even GPS (3) less effective at ammo proc than they should be.

 

Needs testing.

 

As an aside, if you just want to freeze, the other issue with Talon would be that it is probably more likely to kill targets outright anyway, unless at mid to long range where it isn't landing shots accurately.

 

The problem is that all sidearms that have low rate of fire have also high damage per shot. I'm going to test Carnifex now to see if I like it more.

[capn233]

Ok I went in to take a look at the game to try and see what is going on.

 

The first test I did was to create a Bronze game and I took the Talon and Crusader and Cryo II Ammo (should be 1.4 rating).  Was running my GTS.

 

Basically the idea was that the Talon if it uses the standard formula would have a "chance" of 1.12 that way, meaning it is always greater than the FRand() output (between 0 and 1) and so should always freeze if it hits a pellet on health.  If it was using a modified rate of fire, it would be only be 0.14 per pellet.

 

The short answer is it seemed I could freeze them with a single shot, the only exception being kill shots.

 

Crusader testing was problematic with this setup because it had extended barrel and would one-shot CATs on that difficulty.  More on this weapon later.

 

So I went to SP and loaded up an Soldier game and respec'd to give myself Level 3 Cryo Ammo (should be 1.3 rating).  Went to Armax, set match to Cerberus footsoldiers, and took Talon w/ ext mag and Cranial Trauma.  Same thing, I had no issue freezing CATs in a single shot, provided it wasn't the shot that killed them.

 

After failing a test for the Crusader at Armax (I had too much weapon damage from passive I guess), I went back to MP and tried out a Silver game with Battlemaster and the Crusader with no damage barrels.  Took Cryo I ammo (rating 1.0).  Using the standard formula it should have a 0.75 freeze chance, and with the shotgun formula it would be only be 0.09.  It usually froze the CAT's when I shot it, so it was almost certainly closer to 0.75 than 0.09 unless I was getting extremely lucky with the FRand() function.

 

If you were having issue with the Talon, I am not sure what the problem was.  What enemies were you trying to hit?  If it was Cannibals or Husks, I don't think pellets that hit armor can proc.  Also, the pellet has to hit health, not shields or barrier to freeze.

 

I might take a look in the script viewer again to see if I can figure out if it is defining shotguns differently than I thought.  I could have tried testing a low damage, inaccurate shotgun, maybe tomorrow.  Might PM someone and ask if they know about what it is doing.

[robsonwt]

Ok I went in to take a look at the game to try and see what is going on.

 

The first test I did was to create a Bronze game and I took the Talon and Crusader and Cryo II Ammo (should be 1.4 rating).  Was running my GTS.

 

Basically the idea was that the Talon if it uses the standard formula would have a "chance" of 1.12 that way, meaning it is always greater than the FRand() output (between 0 and 1) and so should always freeze if it hits a pellet on health.  If it was using a modified rate of fire, it would be only be 0.14 per pellet.

 

The short answer is it seemed I could freeze them with a single shot, the only exception being kill shots.

 

Crusader testing was problematic with this setup because it had extended barrel and would one-shot CATs on that difficulty.  More on this weapon later.

 

So I went to SP and loaded up an Soldier game and respec'd to give myself Level 3 Cryo Ammo (should be 1.3 rating).  Went to Armax, set match to Cerberus footsoldiers, and took Talon w/ ext mag and Cranial Trauma.  Same thing, I had no issue freezing CATs in a single shot, provided it wasn't the shot that killed them.

 

After failing a test for the Crusader at Armax (I had too much weapon damage from passive I guess), I went back to MP and tried out a Silver game with Battlemaster and the Crusader with no damage barrels.  Took Cryo I ammo (rating 1.0).  Using the standard formula it should have a 0.75 freeze chance, and with the shotgun formula it would be only be 0.09.  It usually froze the CAT's when I shot it, so it was almost certainly closer to 0.75 than 0.09 unless I was getting extremely lucky with the FRand() function.

 

If you were having issue with the Talon, I am not sure what the problem was.  What enemies were you trying to hit?  If it was Cannibals or Husks, I don't think pellets that hit armor can proc.  Also, the pellet has to hit health, not shields or barrier to freeze.

 

I might take a look in the script viewer again to see if I can figure out if it is defining shotguns differently than I thought.  I could have tried testing a low damage, inaccurate shotgun, maybe tomorrow.  Might PM someone and ask if they know about what it is doing.

 

Thanks for all the testing you made. You spent some time doing that. I appreciate it. 

 

Maybe the problem with Talon I was having is because it is highly inaccurate. Maybe I was just missing the shots, I don't know. I was trying against Cerberus Troopers that have only health. 

 

I tried yesterday the Carnifex and it suited better my gameplay style. One shot, wait, Freeze, Incinerate, Cryo Explosion. I think I will be sticking with it, even being heavier than Talon at level V. I'm equipping it with Ultralight materials (Leviathan DLC) and Power Magnifier (Citadel DLC).

 

One question: when I fire a cryo ammo with 100% chance against enemies with shields, barrier or armor I still get them to be chilled, don't I? I mean, they will decrease their movement speed, and in the case of armored, their armor will be softened, and taking more damage, right?

 

Thanks for all the info you provided. Regards,

[capn233]

Yes you can chill shielded targets, but it won't freeze them unless the shot hits health.

[joe6pak]

Here is a little "out of the box" Iceman shep.  It revolves around the Revenant assault rifle and the Marksman Power.

Here is a little breakdown on the main Power choices.

 

Cyro Ammo - Duration - Ammo Capacity - Freeze Chance

Incinerate - Freeze Combo

Tactical Cloak - +40% damage - Bonus Power

Operational Mastery - Weapon Damage - Weight Cap

Marksman - Firing Rate - Accuracy and Firing Rate

 

As far as weapon mods, these are the two that I use extended barrel and precision scope.  The extended barrel is pretty obvious, the precision scope is pretty subjective,  The scope can be swapped out for the stability damper which will give a better hit chance when out in the open.  It is really imperative to be up against something or in cover in order to stabilize the gun.  The gun can fire about 15-18 rounds while cloaked and the Marksman power is enabled.  It takes about 6 seconds to empty the whole 60 round clip.  That's one of the reasons why I don't want to extend Marksman or the Tactical Cloak to longer than 7.8 seconds for Marksman and 10.4 seconds for Tactical Cloak.  

 

With the Tactical Cloak engaged, you have about 10 seconds to move, set up, and engage the Marksman power.  By the time the time the Marksman power ends, the clip should be empty or close to empty so you can reload while the powers are in cool down.  Rinse and repeat. The Revenant V the Power Recharge speed is +190%.  With the +30 ammo. there is really no reason to carry another weapon as you should have 632 rounds before running out.  If you can't find enough extra rounds while running around, then you have problems

[robsonwt]

Here is a little "out of the box" Iceman shep.  It revolves around the Revenant assault rifle and the Marksman Power.

Here is a little breakdown on the main Power choices.

 

Cyro Ammo - Duration - Ammo Capacity - Freeze Chance

Incinerate - Freeze Combo

Tactical Cloak - +40% damage - Bonus Power

Operational Mastery - Weapon Damage - Weight Cap

Marksman - Firing Rate - Accuracy and Firing Rate

 

As far as weapon mods, these are the two that I use extended barrel and precision scope.  The extended barrel is pretty obvious, the precision scope is pretty subjective,  The scope can be swapped out for the stability damper which will give a better hit chance when out in the open.  It is really imperative to be up against something or in cover in order to stabilize the gun.  The gun can fire about 15-18 rounds while cloaked and the Marksman power is enabled.  It takes about 6 seconds to empty the whole 60 round clip.  That's one of the reasons why I don't want to extend Marksman or the Tactical Cloak to longer than 7.8 seconds for Marksman and 10.4 seconds for Tactical Cloak.  

 

With the Tactical Cloak engaged, you have about 10 seconds to move, set up, and engage the Marksman power.  By the time the time the Marksman power ends, the clip should be empty or close to empty so you can reload while the powers are in cool down.  Rinse and repeat. The Revenant V the Power Recharge speed is +190%.  With the +30 ammo. there is really no reason to carry another weapon as you should have 632 rounds before running out.  If you can't find enough extra rounds while running around, then you have problems

 

How is your freeze chance with this build? Since freeze/chill chance decreases with fire rate, and your build is all about increasing an already high fire rate of the Revenant, are you able to freeze a lot of enemies with this build? Or they end up dead before getting frost/chilled?

[joe6pak]

How is your freeze chance with this build? Since freeze/chill chance decreases with fire rate, and your build is all about increasing an already high fire rate of the Revenant, are you able to freeze a lot of enemies with this build? Or they end up dead before getting frost/chilled?

The freeze chance is fairly good(better than 50% with a short burst).  In fact you can freeze multiple enemies in just a few seconds unless you are dealing with barriers, armor, and shields.  On my first play through, I did go with Defense Matrix instead of Marksman.  It would give a better chance of freezing instead of just shattering them left and right with the Marksman.  

 

The other thing to give a better chance of doing a combo is to use the penetration mod instead of the extended barrel.

[robsonwt]

Hello guys, sorry to bump this thread, but I did a FAQ about the Iceman Infiltrator Build in GameFAQs with my experience playing this particular build. I hope you like it. Thanks for the attention:

http://www.gamefaqs....ct-3/faqs/72920