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[Dean_the_Young]

Developed via PM with a friend. Not organized. PM copy-pastes to come.

 

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Overlord (based off of the Evil Overlord List) is the idea I had regarding being the genre-savvy enforcer for the less-genre aware Evil Overlord. Kind of a crossover of the Evil Overlord List with Samuel Vimes of Terry Pratchet's Discworld, you are the commander of the Evil Overlord's City Guard, and by demonstrating common sense and genre savy you are able to run an effective, not-very-evil operation that keeps the Heroes off the street and the Evil Overlord harmlessly occupied.

Despite the humorous tone, it did offer some legit RPG opportunities, including 'working within the system' versus 'overthrow it', and some perspective from weakness. The player and companions are, despite the mook equipment, not very strong: the Heroes and Evil Emperor are infinitely stronger, and so victory comes from cleverness, attrition, and genre awareness. Being a weak individual, the player character struggles with that perspective rather than the invincible hero archetype.

I have a few character concepts floating around: assuming a male PC, both the Overlord's Beautiful but Wicked Daughter (who, with development, is not so wicked) and the (soon to be killed) Hero's True Love (who, with the death of the Hero and development, is not so good) as LI's. The Overlord was to be a vain but ultimately non-malevolent individual who, as long as his ego and position were maintained and his power recognized, was content to let the advisers and player run the show for a pretty benign, if not benevolent, empire. (It helps that the Overlord's great powers that created the empire have also been used to protect it from greater threats.)

What really stuck with me, though, was the final antagonist: a rather uncommitted anti-hero who was just as genre-savy as you, and was opposed to the Evil Overlord more for poetic reasons (he's bad at being Bad) than for virtue. He was the kind of genre-savy liberator who enjoyed the game of the rebellion more than the morality, and when he sees a kindred genre-savy soul in you he ultimately tries to entice you to overthrow the Overlord and make yourself the Overlord: since he's more offended by the Overlord's lack of genre savvy, he would actively side with you if you made yourself the Top Dog in name as well as reality.

Ultimately the player character would have the choice of playing within the system, manipulating/channeling the Overlord's powers to public good/harmlessness, or overthrowing the Overlord and establishing one's self.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Evil Overlord List Project

(AKA Project: Henchman)




Hard to describe: the setting definitely works a lot on the principle of narrative causality, but it can be played straight or subverted. I suppose you could say they think life imitates fiction, without believing they themselves are unreal. So they rest a lot on tropes and literary techniques (Conservation of Ninjitsu, for example, means not sending in bunches of super-strong people against one target), but they don't break the fourth wall and go 'we're imaginary characters in a story so nothing we do matters.'

A good example would be General Tarquin's character defining speech on being an evil overlord in Order of the Stick: http://www.giantitp....s/oots0763.html He understands life plays out like a story, and will be remembered as one, but still treats it like something real and of value.


The PC, who again is more Adam Jensen vaguely predefined than Warden or Shepard radically incompatible views, is more of a Samuel Vimes-esque character who is less fourth-wall breaking and more genre savvy by common sense. Maybe a bit between the two, but part of the back story would be 'rose to the position of Chief Enforcer by learning from the mistakes of the less genre-aware.'

The PC, while genre-savvy, isn't self-aware enough to really exploit the tropes to their full potential. Being a perspective 'in the story', the PC has certain views and issues that blind him: for example, a fear/respect/knowledge of the Evil Overlord gives a strong sense of fatalism about the futility of resistance and why it's better to keep your head down and work inside the system. In a world in which Good Does Not Always Win, and seeing plenty of would-be Heroes stopped cold by the Evil Overlord's True Power, and the PC starts with a belief of 'Darkness Always Wins' and uses his position within the system and general genre-savvy to make it a bit more bearable overall. With a good deal of fatalism and belief in the power of the tropes, the PC has more or less fallen into the tropes in his own right and can't escape them: he is the trope of the dangerously genre-savy Dragon, and more or less believes himself stuck in the role.

It's the appearance of the True Hero, however, that is the catalyst to change. The True Hero is the Hero who really is supposed to beat the Evil Overlord and liberate the kingdom: he has the prophesies, he has the sacred weapon, he has the heroic qualities, he even has both the love interest and companion mascot. He is supposed to beat the Evil Overlord and give the story a happy ending.

Except the PC, more genre aware and reaching a new level in opposing the True Hero, exploits the tropes and ends up beating and capturing the True Hero, who is then killed. Narrative Causality is broken, because this was Not Supposed to Happen, and the PC realizes he has free will just as he realizes he has in all likelihood doomed the kingdom to the rule of the Evil Overlord. The Tropes and the True Hero were the key to beating the Overlord's Overwhelming Power, and now there's nothing else fated to overthrow the Evil Empire.


Of course, Narrative Causality will try to compensate: the story must go on. And so, with everything in a metaphorical scramble to fix fate, the Final Hero emerges.


The Final Hero, who should actually be called the Anti-Hero (Heroes are common: the True Hero and the Anti-Hero stand apart), is to the PC what the PC is to most of the rest of the cast. He is Fully Awakened in regards to the Tropes, and more than just common sense and dangerously genre savy, he is Trope Aware. He can identify them explicitly, and uses them to beat you. He is the only one in the land who may be able to beat you.

Of course, being the Anti-Hero, Good is not Nice, and he's not necessarily Good either. His genre awareness eclipses yours, and so he would be the source of personal defeats, the tragic loss of friends/companions, and in many respects a worse threat than the Evil Overlord. Especially since the Evil Overlord, since being freed of the role of the Villain to be Beaten, has become far more benign and open to the influence of his trusted commander (you) who beat the True Hero.

But the Anti-Hero is dedicated to restoring narrative causality, at any cost. If he has to destroy the setting to save it... then so be it. It will be remembered as a climatic battle of good vs evil, with no one surviving to claim otherwise. The only way for the PC to beat him is to build their own abilities and recognition of the tropes, craft a narrative force that can beat the Anti-Villain, and win.



Or something like that. The Anti-Hero's motivations need to be worked: I want an outcome where he's willing to side with the PC if the PC overthrows the Evil Overlord and establishes himself as the Overlord. Maybe some sort of 'you are the true master of the tropes, and can write this story yourself rather than be forced into a role' admiration when you surpass him? Whereas sticking with the Evil Overlord as the Dragon makes you the power behind the scenes.

That sounds good to me. Overthrowing the Evil Overlord is also overthrowing/controlling the tropes and establishing your own story. Being the Dragon to the Overlord, but more or less the power behind the throne, is the role of subverting the tropes and working from within the system for the betterment of others (or yourself).


Which sort of brings me to a... I don't want to say a morality system, but the use of the idea of falling into/exploiting the tropes and turning it into a dual thematic trend for the game.

Tropes are like the psychological concept of persona: structured ways to exist and interact with those around us. The face we show, and the way we consciously (and subconsciously) compose ourselves to fit the expected roles: the most obvious example being the way we dress ourselves for differing lines of business.


Falling into the tropes, falling in line with people's expectations, isn't necessarily a bad thing. People think comformists are stupid sheeple and Everyone is an Individual, but in a lot of respects conforming to social expectations is an expression of maturity, implicit willingness to compromise, and a way to facilitate communication and interaction between non-familiar people. It can provide structure and security for people who need such things, and the more familiar we are within the broader roles the more we realize we can also explore the sub-roles or even gradually change or reform the aspects of the roles we don't like.

As a character development arc, the Evil Overlord would be a lot like this. For whatever reasons, fate/destiny chose him to fill the role of the Evil Overlord... whether or not he really wanted to be evil or not. But he played the role, rose to power, and in many respects doesn't care about the governing of the empire because he KNOWS that the True Hero will eventually kill him. Why should he care about establishing an effective system, or the people below him, or anything else, when he's doomed? He has his mitigating virtues: he's capable of friendship (or at least personal affection), he's non-malevolent, and he's more than happy to use his powers for the good of his realm, but these are generally overshadowed by the expectation of needing to be the Evil Overlord.

The post True Hero arc is a point at which the Evil Overlord can realize that there are more ways to play the trope. Dark is not Evil, establishing a legacy kingdom to be invested in, etc. With the PC pulling out the 'how to be a more effective Evil Overlord', the evil turns more to 'selfish-pragmatic' and can be spun in a way that, if not ideal, is hardly Evil at all.



On the other hand, exploiting/rejecting the convenient tropes and choosing your own is for the people who aren't satisfied in life. At the extreme, total rejectionism is futile: a rebel against the trope system would simply fall into other tropes. But people who refuse to settle in the tropes they are set in can try and choose other ones, difficult as this may be. This is the PC in many respects, but can also easily be reflected in companion characters: think 'the big dumb enforcer' flunky who ultimately would rather be the genius bruiser.



A game about tropes being played for drama could also be used for some good stories on people and their relations to others/their place in life.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

You wrote...

Henchman is...I'm going to start with really, really clever. Have you got a gameplay genre in your head for this?

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Not quite. I think I want a more Bioware-style RPG, in terms of the single player-controlled character having cinematic dialogue sequences in a narrative-heavy RPG. No Bethesda style dialogue or non-linearity here.

The problem is that a Bioware-style combat system generally has the players be a small group of badassess... which is contrary to the idea of the PC winning because of wits and genre savvy, and not by beating up the hero.

Combat mechanics wise, I kind of am thinking of 'lair'-type games, like tower-defense games or the 'be the evil scientist and build your lair' sort. Your 'abilities' would be pieces of genre-savy and better upgrades/policies for the Legions of Doom. Your player character and companions might be especially effective minions... but victory over the Heroes should come from weight of numbers, resources, and a good base defense plan than from a character of equal ability.

If I had to put it in a un-thought concept sketch, I'd say 'think Grand Theft Auto sandbox in reverse': instead of one super character with a world of cops around them in the city, you control the cops in the city and try to bring down the one super character.'

Build a good spy network/report with civilians (pragmatic-evil Overlord tips), and you'll spot the hero of the hour sooner. The sooner you spot, the sooner you can send the Legions of Doom to wear down/overwhelm the Hero before he makes it to the castle.

If the Hero makes it to the castle, then the Castle Defense phase starts. Are your guards trained to not investigate the pebble trick? Does your armor of doom take at least two blows from the Hero or their companions? Are your pit traps and subtle misdirections effective?



As far as I'm concerned, the Bioware dialogue scenes could happen between overworld map sections.
 

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BLUF: Grand Theft Auto meets the Overlord series.


I was thinking on it, and I think the primary setup would be a inversion of the Grand theft Auto model: instead of one powerful PC running through a city, sometimes chased by individually weak cops, it's the player controlling the Legions of Doom, chasing after a far more capable Hero. Sometimes the player might be involved in the chase... but at the same time, sometimes the player will be directing the chase, and sending the Legions of Doom ahead to make road blocks/prepare ambushes/etc to buy time to stop and stall the hero. Or triggering traps and various triggers that the player, exploring the city beforehand, could set up to help them.

Then, when the Hero makes it to the fortress, the game shifts to a more tower-defense model, in which the player's traps and troop movement ultimately stop the Hero from doing X. (Such as reaching the Dark Lord, which could result in a 'you have failed me!' game over for perceived incompetence.)




Thematically/appearance wise, I could see it working a bit like Jak and Daxter 2, aka Grand Theft Auto with elfs and magic, only switching the hero for the Legions of Doom. In case you never played it, the protagonist is roaming around the quasi-sci-fi/magical Great Big city, where the Legions of Doom patrol the streets and sky cars in the city but less so in the wilderness outside it. Except for various missions that already have them on alert, they generally ignore the player until the player breaks the law by attacking civilians, attacking them, or hijacking vehicles. At which point the chase begins, with all the local legions beginning to run after you and calling in more and more backup until you successfully flee/hide.

Of course, there were also the out-of-city sections as well, in which the character went to areas that had infrastructure set up by the Evil Overlord and his Legions, but these areas were often prowled by dangerous beasts (while also being the hangouts and meeting grounds of other characters, like smugglers and rebels). There was an off-on struggle between the Legions of Doom and the Beasts for control of the outskirts.





Henchmen would work like that, only controlling legions of doom instead of the singular all-powerful Hero. Your character is, individually, massively outmatched by the Hero-types, but with weight of numbers and strategies (that exploit tropes), you can overwhelm them.






The Outworld, outside the walls of the Big City, the player faces the wilderness and the surrounding areas. Here be an oil refinery: there be a mountainous pass used as a hiding area. When the player goes here, this is where the more Overlord-esque parts come: directing the Legions of Doom to solve puzzles/overcome obstacles/etc. that needs numbers/certain upgrades/whatever to surmount. Here the player chases down rebels/finds important relics/whatever the quest of the day is, while using their Legion of Doom to overcome the monsters and mountains. Various Outworld posts could include the not-so-big settlement, the secret laboratories, the mountain passes, the ancient ruins of prophesy, and so on.


Tropes at play in the Outworld, varying by setting, would focus on how the Evil Overlord should interact with the outside world and mange various aspects of the organization. This is the area the Heroes first come from, so obviously tropes about detecting the arrival of Heroes will be in play. (If a male and female in a happy relationship approach, they are perfectly safe. If a male and female are stuck together against their will and display sexual tension, execute them immediately.)


So, in the basic story arc, the PC goes to the Outworld to sniff out the approach of any heroes entering the borders of the Evil Empire.


In the Overworld, the Big City, the player controls the PC but has an accompanying squad. Some permanent, maybe, but some not. During the 'exploration' phase, between missions and plot points, the player can investigate the city to find items/crack down on rebels/do side quests. Along with being exploration and side-questing, the point of this phase is that sidequests and such can give you upgrades to your Legions, or prepare things that will help against the Hero. IE, cracking down on hackers to get some defense turrets back up... or restoring a marketplace, so that the civilian foot traffic means that the Hero won't try and drive a magic car through there during a chase.

From different points of the Overworld, you obviously get missions. Chase missions take place in the overworld, where you and your legions either chase down smugglers/rebels/criminals or the Hero of the Week. Generally the goal is to either to stop them before they escape/reach their objective, or use this phase to wittle away the Hero's strength before the Tower Defense phase.


Tropes at play in the Overworld generally focus on how the Evil Overlord should interact with the populace (give them free internet to keep them content and lazy), as well as general-purpose Legion of Doom-dom (my Legions of Doom will play nice with the locals, etc.).


In the basic story arc, the Heroes who get into the city are investigated/tracked down/chased by the City Guard.






The third main setting/phase would be the Tower Defense phase: points at which your Legions of Doom must defend a fortress, and you have a some time/leeway in setting up the defenses. This could be done in the Outworld (occupy a castle before the monsters come in), in various parts of the Big City (defending a prison from a rebel attack), and of course the Evil Overlord's Castle itself (defending from the Hero).

Tropes in the Tower Defense Phase really focus on the structural/engineering aspects of it all. This phase would definitely need to be more of a pre-set tower defense game game,in which the circumstances the player has set up to this point come into play. You might get to shift around this or that, but a lot of pieces are determined before you get here, and this is the point you make it count.

For example, say the Hero has made it here. The Hero has a strength of 25: the player wins when the strength goes down to 0, but the player's strength is only 5. A typical legion of doom is worth 1. Because of how many Legions you lost in the Outworld and Chase phases, you have five Legions for a total of 10 points.

However, since you you repeatedly weakened him during the Chase thanks to clever maneuvering and Legions spent there, you already knocked off 5 points, so, he has a strength of 20 now.. When you did your side quests, you got materials to make a few adjustments to your fortress: a trap room costs the Hero 3 strength, down to 17.

Thanks to other sidequests, you have invoked the rule of equiping your Legions of Doom with armor capable of stopping 1 lethal blow: your Legion's strength doubles, bringing your strength to 15 to the Hero's 17. And, since your investigation pulled out the Hero's Heroic Flaw, you are able to exploit it for the last few points to finish the Hero off.



And so on, with elaboration and variety. Obviously RPG elements can be worked into any of these, with cutscenes following or being involved after major developments.



All three mission sets can be their own subquests independent of each other, but together they also form the basis of individual arcs. The plot can bounce between them as necessary, and give the player multiple opportunities to do quests for their favored kind.

[Dean_the_Young]

Maybe it's because I've been playing Civilization recently, but rather than a 'choose your customizable equipments and stats' sort of system, I think a 'policy' system like in Civ 5 would work well.

http://www.civfanati.../socialpolicies

If you're not familiar, Social Policies are Civ 5's ways of giving civilization-wide upgrades as you progress as a culture. With different categories focused in different areas, Policies are a way to focus your civilization towards a specific strategy. Since there will always be more options than you can adopt at a time, picking and choosing is key. So while the policies of, say, Honor will benefit a militaristic civilization, the policies of Patronage will make your alliances with city-states better.


Henchman might not be a stat-driven RPG, but it would stand to have a progression system. Instead of Social Policies, you get Trope Mastery, with different levels of mastery in different areas of the Evil Overlord List. You can spend points on yourself, to make your PC better... or you can spend it on your soldiers, or you base abilities, or on interacting with the masses, and so on.


A good model would be the Deus Ex: Human Revolution model. You can gradually get experience and level up: you can get Tropes as quest rewards: you find or conceivably buy policies. And so on. You start the game simply 'clever', but as the game (and character) progresses you grow into Dangerously Genre Savy to Trope Master.


I also like the idea of each Policy Branch having a name associated with it, to reflect the PC's progression (or lack of it) in that field. For example...




Herding the Masses

Let's say that this is a field for how the PC and the Legions of Doom interact with the populace. The populace makes a big difference in the 'hunt' and 'chase' phases, since if they hate you they'll help hide the Hero, and if they like you they're more willing to not cause trouble/give tips/etc. At the super-high levels, the populace will actually turn on the Heroes.


Initial rating is, say, 'Hated Despot.' At this point, everyone hates your guts: the Legions of Doom are brutal, oppressive, and as hated as feared, and no one wants anything to do with you. Your Legions of Doom are little more than jackboot thugs who don't know how to ask and say 'please', and may simply be magicked minions conjured by the Overlord. A great army, not so great police force.


Some policies/tropes that might be gained can include...


Plainclothes Police: Who would have thought that losing the buzz-cut and ditching the armor would have helped your agents blend in to the masses?

Plainclothes increase the chances of getting tips towards the location of a Hero or Dissident. Opens up a category of side quests to crack down on dissidents.

->Upgrade A: Undercover Cop: Your spies infiltrate the Dissident networks, greatly increasing the rate of finding Dissidents. Effectively opens up Rebel Bases.



Hometown Recruiting: Begin hiring locals into the Legions of Doom, bringing that hometown touch. Locals aren't as good fighters as your demonic Legions of Doom, but are both better received and far more likely to be able to recognize a dissident or disguised Hero.

->Upgrade A: Order and Discipline: Better behavior gets better results. Local Legions of Doom are a bit better in combat, and are better respected by locals.

->Upgrade B: Hometown Hero: The local boys are so popular, that when the Legions of Doom are chasing a fleeing Hero, locals may try and help out.



Free Internet: Nothing will make people more inclined to be lazy. Virtually eliminates the risk of the Legions of Doom being attacked in the streets by dissidents. May be a heavy-investment sort of policy, but powerful.




Final Rating: Villain with Good Publicity. You started hated and feared, but now your Legions of Doom are even respected, and the locals feel you aren't as bad as they used to think.





And so on. More Overlord-list specific and referencing, and a good deal of subtle in-humor and trope-jokes, but ultimately you master the category and become so Bad, you're almost Good.



Some thoughts on categories and areas for Trope-Policies...



Commander of the Guard: PC-Centric
Initial Rating: Flunky
Final Rating: The Dragon
Summary: A field of promotions that strengthen the abilities of the protagonist. The PC, while never becoming as powerful as the Heroes, is still better than the line grunt. Promoting him can make him a better commander and combatant for fighting the Heroes, and so on.
Possible Policies/Upgrades:
-Trope Recognition: Can identify tropes that enemy dissidents/Heroes are using
-Trope Exploit/Mastery: Can exploit tropes of your choosing per circumstance
-Increasing personal strength
-Increasing number of potential units under direct command
-Increasing effectiveness of units under direct command
-Increasing available types of units under direct command
-Various quest-enabling traits and abilities



Fortress of Evil: Fortress-centric
Initial Rating: Mad Designer
Final Rating: Mad Design Skills
Summary: A field of policies relating to tropes about the construction/interior of the Evil Overlord's lairs and fortresses. Can make you better at creating the Evil Lair, Defending it from Heroes, and attacking Rebel Strongholds. Generally the skills that help you build something can help you foil it as well, depending which upgrade you pick up.
Possible Policies/Upgrades:
-Effective Death Traps
-Misleading Labels
-Escape Routes
-Power Generators and other Critical Equipment
-Jails and Jailbreaks


Mad Science: Technology Upgrades
Initial Rating: Peeved Scientist
Final Rating: Mad Scientist
Summary: Various 'technology' upgrades thanks to the Evil/Mad Science. Can be used for troop upgrades, infrastructure development, and so on. A little bit of everything, from Lasers to Weather Machines. This could have a lot of overlap with other fields. This could also be used for various plot-critical advances and what not.
Possible Policies/Upgrades:
-Super-weapons: Could be a sort of Siren's Call for Heroes and such. The Overlord wants these for (plot purposes), and Heroes come to destroy them. A catalyst/trigger for the scenario-specific Hero incident.
-Power and electricity. Coming in the context of Mad Science, the excess power could be a major development project that benefits the city.
-Troop Upgrades: Possible. Overlap-sensitive.
-Public Good: Ultimately, I think the Mad Science, like the rest of the tropes, should ultimately come out to something that benefits people. Like an orbital death ray... that becomes the basis for a space colony.



Legions of Doom: Troop Upgrades
Initial Rating: Rent-a-Mook
Final Rating: Badass Army
Summary: Legion of Doom tropes are exploited here. These make your Legions of Doom more effective against Heroes, Dissidents, and whatever else you have to fight. At the start, your troops are like tissue paper that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn: by the end, you could take over the world with them.
Possible Policies/Upgrades:
-Imperial Marksmanship Academy: Radically increases accuracy
-Functional Armor: Legions of Doom can take 2 hits rather than 1. (Possible multiple upgrades.)
-Non-vision-restricting Helmets: Legions of Doom have better lines of sight for spotting things.
-Mook Chivalry: Mooks attack all at once ,rather than taking turns. Effectively masses attack power against Heroes who would have a one-on-one duel ability (which would give a first strike against melee ttackers).
-Specialists: Opens up specialized unit types.
-Ditching the Helmet: Legions of Doom drop the masks/helmets, and become individuals with a name (and, consequently, a significant power boost).











And, on the flip side

Heroes: They Have Their Own
Initial Rating: Epic Prophesied Hero of Legend
Final Rating: The Real Deal
Summary: Heroes, while not player controlled (except in DLC?), would have their own promotions and abilities. Being boss characters in their own right, Heroes gradually gain more and more abilities (or possess unique abilities) that allow them to outmatch the Legion of Doom. Some special ones have unique, super-powerful abilities: others just have a number of abilities. The Anti-Hero, being the most aware, has the most.

Without being too committed to the idea, the idea that the PC can learn to mitigate Tropes that you've already beaten would be a sort of power-progression that would work with the storyline. Your 'counter-tropes' would be either a promotion or ability of your own, which could be used to counter the advantages of a Hero. A hero who has a Wind-up Special, for example, could have the PC use a pre-emptive spoiler to stop the massive attack. A hero

Various policies/upgrades
Way too many to count.

-Special abilities
-Combat mechanics
->Wind-up Special: A hard-hitting special that can kill multiple Legions of Doom/one-hit-KO the PC
->Duel Dual: When surrounded by melee legionaries, they all attack one at a time
-Sidekicks: Not-quite Heroes, but considerably strong companion characters
-Companion animals: Range from cute mascot characters to major combat beasts
-Sneaking/stealth abilities: The Hero's ability to remain hidden and unnoticed outside and within the city.
-Infiltration abilities: the Hero's ability to infiltrate/attack your Fortress
-Public instigation/uprising: The Hero's ability to benefit from the masses during the hide-and-seek and chase phases in the city. At worst, you fight more civilians
-Rebel Stronghold: The ability to defend a Rebel Stronghold from your Legions of Doom. Can include their own traps/special rooms, or just a defensive fighting bonus.
-Dumb Luck


Thoughts?
 

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anon wrote...

 

I really like everything you've written about Henchman so far. "Reverse GTA" is an extremely interesting and original concept.

An original idea that occurred to me re the castle defence phase was to imagine an incredibly complex map with dozens of different routes in and have the AI pick from what seems to be the most lightly defended entry point. (So if the battlements are bristling with crossbowmen, the Hero AI might assault through the sewers.) This would simulate being on the receiving end of that bit in the quest where the heroes plot their way past the evil defences.

The Henchman could mitigate against this by deploying ruses instead of actual defensive units: for 10% of the cost of the crossbow battalion you can man the battlements with a bunch of straw dummies. All warfare is based on deception, etc.

 

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I wrote...

 

I thought of another label as well: 'GTA meets Pikmen.'

The more I started to think of it in terms of leading a mook squad of followers, the more the genre perspective shifted. Pikmen/Overlord (an actual game) have generally been more adventure-style games, but merging them with a sandbox/adventure setting wouldn't/shouldn't be too hard from a system perspective. Especially since, in the City, their general roll is to surround you and look menacing.




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You wrote...

An original idea that occurred to me re the castle defence phase was to imagine an incredibly complex map with dozens of different routes in and have the AI pick from what seems to be the most lightly defended entry point. (So if the battlements are bristling with crossbowmen, the Hero AI might assault through the sewers.) This would simulate being on the receiving end of that bit in the quest where the heroes plot their way past the evil defences.

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That's a good idea. It might be challenging to put into practice, which is to say I'm not familiar enough with designing tower defense games to judge, but it definitely would help to bring out the value of the engineer tropes. It could also be a possible DLC-expansion/multiplayer option: more maps for more castles, or a 'design and challenge eachother' contest between players.

In the Evil Overlord List (which I assume you've read by now), there are a lot of rules and points about how to lay out the fortress. Some are the basic 'I will install surge protectors', some are the clever 'I will label my janitor closet the Master Control Room and vise-versa', and some are the rules and procedures like 'all my minions will go in pairs, and will radio in before splitting up to investigate a noise.'


I don't know about 'incredibly complex', but a multiple-avenue fortress would be a good way to exploit that. Especially if it's all about wearing down the Hero to be captured before escape/arrival.


Think of an 'escape' scenario, for example: a Hero was captured, but is not trying to escape from the Dungeon. The goal is to keep him from making it out, starting with the entry room. The first part is the Hero breaking out of the cell, trying not to trigger the alarm. If they can avoid triggering the alarm, they can find armor and weapons, becoming much stronger: if they trigger the alarm, they have no time for armor and the Legions of Doom have a significant advantage.

The Hero starts with trying the 'play sick' trick to knock out the guard. If your guard is unimproved, they fall for it, get knocked out, and don't set the alarm. Hero gets to steal the guard's armor and weapon, strengthening themselves and getting a basic disguise, before wandering to the next area.

If the Guard is improved, they don't fall for it, and the Hero escalates. If the Hero has the 'pick lock' trope, they pick the lock... but the guard notices, and fights. The Hero takes a bit of damage, and depending on the further promotion the alarm may or may not be triggered. At the very least, the Hero is a bit easier to take down from having to fight the guard.

If the Guard and Lock are improved, however, the Hero has to pull a trump for the initial escape: they have to use one of their special abilities to blow open the door. This definitely triggers the alarm and triggers a fight with the guards, leaving the Hero already wounded, without time to equip the armor, and soon to face the Legion of Doom with one less special attack.


So, the Hero gets out of the room... but with differing amounts of strength. After a couple of rooms of this, the Hero could make a daring escape, or be overwhelmed and stopped by the Legions of Doom.


Tropes = Attrition. That's the goal with the castle defense phase.

===

The Henchman could mitigate against this by deploying ruses instead of actual defensive units: for 10% of the cost of the crossbow battalion you can man the battlements with a bunch of straw dummies. All warfare is based on deception, etc.

===

And etc. indeed.

Depending on how much magic/trickery we let seep in (the Overlord's Beautiful but Evil Daughter being a sorceress?), I could see that sort of trickery being useful.

Another application could be an illusion of more Legions of Doom. Say you only have enough Legions to overwhelm the Hero if you don't split them up. Of course, if you keep them all together, they're easier to avoid. So you magic up an illusion of more Legions of Doom at point A, to make the Hero turn and go route B. (Point A could be, say, a bridge, and force the Hero to taking a costly detour.)


Of course, Heroes with certain tropes/abilities could detect your trick, and simply charge on through. Suddenly, instead of a very clever ambush, you realize you left the gate unguarded as the Hero charges through.

 

===

 

anon wrote...

 

By the way, Henchman as written is missing a third ending. You currently have:

1. Henchman defeats Anti-hero.
2. Henchman (collaborating with Anti-Hero) installs himself as Overlord.

Don't you need:

3. Henchman (collaborating with Anti-Hero) defeats Overlord and (3a) installs a Pure of Heart leader OR (3b) leaves the people to it and gets the hell out of their lives?

The story is unequivocally in favour of tyranny if there's no option to lift the tyranny and see what happens, right? I'm thinking that these could both be semi-hidden endings in that they need the Henchman to make certain in-game choices. For (3a) to even be an option he must expend resources to either nurture and protect the Hero's True Love, or make choices that "paragonise" the Overlord's Wicked Daughter. (3b) can either have a bad ending for the people (if the Henchman just skedaddles for pastures new) or a good ending if the Henchman expended resources and/or make policy decisions that empowered the people.

 

===

 

I wrote...

 

I was about to say nay, but then I thought on it a bit. More like maybe-nay.


Option 1, Henchman defeats Anti-hero and preserves Overlord, is really supposed to play with mitigating/paragonizing the Overlord. One of the big themes about him is that he's really not that bad, and more than willing to just 'play' the part if he thinks he can, and it would carry a subtext of him letting better, more enlightened minions run the show in his name. So while it's technically The Evil Empire, the Secretary of the Interior could be the Pope for all he cares (as long as what is Ceasar's is rendered unto Ceasar).

I don't like the idea of setting up an elected council/democracy (this is faux-evil empire midevilism, after all), but if you remained the Overlord's Dragon than you would naturally be his Second In Command/Power Behind the Throne and thus be able to rule the people as nicely/not as you wanted, token gestures aside.


Option 2 is sort of 'dictatorship is what you make of it': you can play the tropes selfishly or benevolently, so even if you take the title of Overlord yourself you don't necessarily rule as a tyrany. The anti-hero is more about 'as long as you use the tropes to their fullest', rather than 'you must be an evil overlord', so you could be a terrible despot or a father-to-his-country who will be legendary.



Option 3 I didn't want too much, especially 3b... but 3a has potential.

A 'good' person playthrough should be pro-decency, not pro-democracy/anti-autocracy. It doesn't fit the setting, it arguably doesn't fit the player character (who is in the role of the Henchman BECAUSE he loses faith outside of strong authority figures), and in many ways would easily take over/distract the game from its real focus: lampshading and exploiting as many tropes as possible.


(I'll make another post shortly, but in my view the Evil But Beautiful Daughter and Hero's True Love shouldn't be paragonizable or character-dependent on the Hero. Their character development would be more fixed... though obviously character interaction and romance would be more RPG-dependent.)

But 3a... I could see it. I really could. It can play on the PC not being personally ambitious/feeling that someone else with great power but a better character should lead. It can take advantage of various Villain-romance tropes (applying to the player, obviously).

Ooh, ooh, and especially if the 'and the ultimate power requires a virgin pure of heart' trope is played, making THE POWER OF LOVE one of the ways to beat the Anti-Hero.

Oh, god, I'm cracking up. Virgin power: it's got to exist!

[Dean_the_Young]

Henchman Characters

---

So, much to the chagrin of the Bioware-RPG staple, I really don't see Henchmen being a 'choose your gender' RPG. Even calling it an RPG is debatable: more Deus Ex largely-predefined-character RPG than 'choose your radically different viewpoints' of most Bioware staples. Calling it an RPG at all may be misleading given that outside of some dialogue scenes, it wouldn't have the classical RPG mechanics.

The comparison wounds me, but a JRPG label, in which there's no morality system and dialogue choicesare mostly superficial characterization that drive the same plots, is probably more accurate. Like a good JRPG (or, worse, social sim game), plot-roleplaying is more about choosing dialogue flags than consistent tone and character.

Anyways, point is that the main character is male in my head, and there are no male-equivalents for the primary female cast/love interests.

---

The Henchman

The PC, the Overlord's Dragon, the Master of Tropes, etc. etc.

A dangerously genre savy enforcer of the Evil Empire, the PC is actually a pretty decent person in a world that, on the face of it, isn't so decent. The Henchman, despite misgivings or moral despair, is ultimately loyal to the Overlord out of fear: the Henchman's backstory, while never fully elaborated, mentions that the Henchman once saw his original home/society utterly destroyed by a massive force... a massive force that the Overlord's True Power singlehandidly slew in the creation of the Evil Empire.


Initially a low level squad leader in the Legion of Doom, the PC gets promoted to Henchman due to a mix of personal ability and the previous superior getting a case of 'you have failed me for the last time.' (Possibly after a somewhat-scripted encounter in which a Hero makes it to the Overlord... only for the Overlord to demonstrate their strength by effortlessly destroying them.)


The Henchman, especially early on, has a fatalistic view that justifies working in the system. Dissidents have no chance against the system (of empire and tropes), rebellion is pointless, and even Heroes are no match to the overwhelming True Power of the Overlord. At the same time, at least the Evil Overlord provides order, kills the worst of the dangers, and generally isn't as bad as his lieutenants and worse advisers.

Still, the best that can be done is to play along and make things a bit more bearable, a reason for seeking advancement (to make things easier for others/one's self) but also sustaining a fatalism and lack of hope that generally holds up to the point that the Henchman is instrumental in defeating the True Hero. By the point the Henchman realizes the True Hero would have done everything he truly wanted, it's already too late. Cue character development.

While already a rising star, after the True Hero is defeated the Henchman quickly becomes the Evil Overlord's Most Favored Lieutenant. Cue an arc about inter-villainous power squabbles, in which those more corrupt rivals try and edge you out, and in which the Evil Overlord's break of fate allows him to mellow. As the player advances, removes corrupt/evil rivals, and gets to know the Evil Overlord, you get to realize the Evil Overlord isn't so bad and isn't the real problem. The Evil Empire could actually become a decent place at this rate.

Then comes the Anti-Hero, the Karmic Rebalancer to restore the tropes and fate and who intends to take down the Evil Overlord in a fight that, with the Evil Overlord's True Power unchecked, would likely destroy the City.

The Henchman, now open to real character refinement, comes to terms with their abilities, what sort of place in the story they really want, and ultimately takes down the anti-hero and/or the Evil Overlord and saves the day, comfortable in their chosen spot in life.

---

Evil Overlord

All the tropes can be played, but generally known as a egocentric mastermind with the power to back his claims. Takes care to play the role of being Evil, but is honestly not that bad (usually). He's a bit of a book-nerd in my mind: not necessarily scrawny, but his normal lounging should definitely include a small frame of reading glasses and a comfortable couch with a book of some sort. Normally the only time he gets off it is for Overlord Business, his daughter, or the rare fight.

I'm torn on how deep to make him, but he can go well beyond affably evil.

He definitely has flaws: his ego, his temper and rage, and his general indifference to others he doesn't care about. He insists on remaining on top and being recognized as such, and he's the Overlord for a reason. He will insist on remaining on the top, and he doesn't care who he has to blow up to stay there.

But at the same time, his desire for domination isn't necessarily malevolent. he doesn't get his kicks off of the suffering of others, despises corruption within his own ranks (though is ambivalent about casual cruelty), and is generally selfish and conservative. What's his is his, and anyone who threatens his possessions (including subjects, friends, and family) will be annihalated... making him a bit of a protector of his civilization as well. (Though if he has to be roused to fight, whoever failed him is probably going to be killed off for failure.)


That's the superficial and mid-level stuff. The deeper stuff comes from the role of the Tropes in the world, and the reasons he became an Overlord.

I'm not settled on any one path, but I want to express the idea that he feels he has to be the Overlord because Destiny Says So. A prophesy, the power of the Tropes, the nature of his own Great Power... it was given to him so that he would become the villain of the Story, and he knows it.

In a sense, he's one of those people enslaved by the Tropes. Maybe, in the past, he tried to defy it: he tried to be good, to do good, and Fate punished him by taking away his wife (and leaving him his daughter, hence why he spoils her). Maybe he wanted to use his power for good: part of why he slew the Ancient Terrible Evil that ruined the PC's backstory.

But ultimately he got the hint, learned to play the role, and now is more or less resigned to the fact that Destiny made him the villain for the purpose of the True Hero killing him (and possibly his daughter, his real fear). With that hanging over him, he doesn't have much care to spare for the peasant masses.



Before the True Hero comes, he's... not a woobie, but more affably evil. We get a bit of a sense of his true character, though, in when he starts noticing and favoring the Henchman due to success. He's pleased enough if the PC finds 'good' ways to resolve problems, we can see he's protective of his daughter (an early mission that brings the PC and her together), but his first character-moment of not being affably evil is when, with the True Hero on his door step, he shows genuine kindness/consideration and offers to let the PC take his daughter and flee the city to safety, to escape the bloodbath to follow.

(The PC, between a mix of 'I can still prevent this' and other reasons, decides to stay.)


After the True Hero is defeated, imprisoned, and executed, the Evil Overlord realizes that... he's free. He's still the Overlord, but he's not doomed to die. He, and his Empire, are what he makes of it now. And the PC, who is the closest thing to a friend he has, is to thank for it.

This is the point at which he starts opening up, changing, and taking a greater interest in the City. Where before he just wanted to be left alone and didn't care, now he'll task out the player to 'remove this blight to my rule', ie corrupt/harmful actors who are threatening his vision. The more involved he gets, the more benign he comes, and the closer he feels with the PC.

By the time the Anti-Hero comes, the Anti-Hero is a bigger threat to the people than the Overlord. The Overlord, using his own knowledge/awareness of the Tropes, aids the PC to further their own powers so that the Anti-Hero can be defeated without resorting to the Evil Overlord's True Powers which, even in defense, would devastate the city.


Come the time of the final choice, the PC's potential betrayal would be a real stab in the heart. The PC's support would be the affirmation of friendship. And, in Option 3, if the PC is romancing the (reformed) Daughter, he might just step out of the way peacefully and let her ascend the throne.

---

Anti-Hero

Already talked about him. He needs to be brought down with trope mastery lest he and the Evil Overlord destroy the City. Trope Mastery, or super-special tropes, are his weakness.

Romances help, but are not necessary, to beat him. He can not be romanced. If the player becomes the Overlord by mastery of the Tropes, the Anti-Hero becomes the Player's Dragon.

---

The Evil but Beautiful Daughter

(From now on, Evil Daughter)

The Overlord's daughter, and the only person he genuinely cares about. Her mother died long ago, before her father became the Overlord when she was a little girl. Secretly, this was a punishment by the fates for her Father not taking his intended role, a secret she doesn't know yet. Given her untouchable status she's more than a little spoiled, but her vanity and selfishness are more about a lack of structure/awareness of consequences than being truly spoiled rotten. Once she sees that her actions have consequences and receives genuine praise/gratitude for a good deed, she begins to reform.


Early encounter is obviously a bad first impression/rumor (and probably needs to be reigned in): she's the beautiful, vain, untouchable who everyone has to kow-tow to. Legends of her bitchyness are, well, legend. The PC may get her notice for not in an encounter after she walks into him and expects an apology*, but it's not until she goes missing and the Evil Overlord demands the Legions of Doom (you) find her at all costs that you interact with her. She's escaped her gilded cage to explore the outside world, and who dared to stop her, but she's obviously out of her depth when some rebels capture her. (For humor, she may not realize she's been captured, and they may be struggling to put up with her.)

The PC goes through difficulty to rescue her, and arrogant thank you of 'you may have the privilege of escorting me as my thanks' gets a PC-scolding about consequences and maturity, an outburst for the PC that most players have been urging to do. Cue her stamping off, cue her getting in more danger, cue you having to save her again.

When you rescue her (again), we find that this time she was actually helping someone, protecting a little girl from the danger that she got herself into. Upon rescue, the girl thanks her sincerely, says she wants to be beautiful and strong like her when she grows up (despite the Evil Daughter being a mess), and runs off.

This touches the Evil Daughter on a number of levels: she's never been thanked sincerely, she's never been called beautiful by someone who didn't want something, and... well, she's never been scolded before. By anyone. She apologizes to the player, admitting they were right, and returns to the Castle much subdued. Her rescue (and, you hear later, good word) earns you the Overlord's favor, and you get word that 'she's taken an interest in you.'

So starts the development arc.


*Alternative gag: the player may have a dialogue to be confrontational/rude/slap sense into her, but the PC goes into a 'or that's what I wanted to say, but I valued my life' monologue, while playing nice until the outburst.



Evil Daughter's development arc focuses on seeking praise and respect: as she'll start off, she liked it when the girl called her beautiful and awesome, and so she wants more. But she knows empty platitudes/demanding it will be meaningless, so she'll have to earn it. And you, who had both good sense and was willing to talk back, are the perfect person to sanity-check her plans.

Evil Daughter is someone whose flaws seem evident, but are gradually overcome by her virtue once given a chance to grow. Her angle, initially coming off as narcissistic vanity (I want to be praised/appreciated) gradually reveal themselves to be a search for self-development and connections with others. What she really craves isn't adoration, but respect: as someone who's always had everything and never been challenged, she's never had a sincere relationship- not even with her father, a feeling which definitely deepens when she learns he kept the secret of her mother's death from her. She's never had a true friend, or a true confidant, or someone to stop her from making a mistake, which has really done a number to her self-respect. She doesn't particularly like herself either: she may be beautiful, her magics may be powerful, she may be an expert in the backstabbing court politics... but so what? She has no identity outside of 'the Evil Overlord's Untouchable Daughter.'

You, the Henchman/player, the first and only person willing to say 'no', are thus a major catalyst for her growth. As she starts finding out things about herself, like that she enjoys taking down her enemies in court, that she enjoys helping people, that she likes being recognized and appreciated for what she can do and not just who she is- she develops as a person, and ultimately goes from 'bad first impression' to 'respectable and sympathetic.' Ultimately, she even comes to realize that she does love her father: he might not have been a good father, but his are the failures of love, genuine love, and not the lack of caring and superficial appearances that she feared.

And, in typical fashion for this sort of thing, the PC is somewhere between the sun and the moon as the most important influence in her recent life. Assuming you pursue the development, you're either her first friend or first true love or both.



(Or something like that: it needs more work, but the character concept of a spoiled, lonely person trying to despoil themselves is key.)



Come the ending, the Evil Daughter is one of the potential aids/paths to victory over the Anti-Hero. Hers is the more magical-related advantage favoring the Evil Overlord, with the PC pursuing a sort of Unbeatable Ultimate Weapon to channel/harness the Evil Overlord's powers.

Or, Romance Power.


---

The Hero's True Love (HTL)

If the Evil Daughter was a bad impression with positive development, the HTL is a good first impression followed by some deconstruction. And, to add to it, you're kind of the rebound guy.

Introduced before the True Hero really comes in, HTL is definitely the Type A personality/non-magical/action girl type. She'd really rather be the Hero herself, but she's learned (been forced to deal with) the fact that that's not the Trope. She has definite Hero tendencies, but the Almighty Tropes rebel against her and push her towards Damsel as Punishment for stepping out of her place... hence our first meeting, when she's protecting people from a wilderness beast and you (and the Legions of Doom) are her ironic rescuer. Upon her rescue, and initial fear/distrust, you and she team up to storm the lair of the beast. Tellingly, she's able to unleash a Hero Ability if the player is struggling.

HTL isn't universally loved or amazingly beautiful, but she has enough virtues that first impressions will be hard to dislike her. She's brave, steadfast, capable, doesn't like to be weak, and generally a bunch of admirable contemporary morals. She is the Lady Knight, and both capable and clever enough that the Dangerously Genre Savvy Henchmn is impressed.

Unfortunately, she's engaged. Just a traveler looking to scout ahead and find a new home.


Her initial appearance and role is as a spy, scouting ahead for the True Hero. She came expecting to find a despotic hellhole of misery and cruelty, and instead found... you. Commander of the Legion of Doom, leader of an orderly, professionalizing, and actually almost-respectable city guard. You stop criminals, protect civilians, and even without her prompting a corrupt official is taken down and sentenced to hang. If it weren't for the Evil Overlord's Castle towering over the city, she says she could almost think it was a Free City.

You clearly weren't what she was expecting, and she lets you know. There's definitely an attraction at work...

...but she's engaged. Not too happy about it, she'll admit: arranged marriage she had no say in. Good guy, handsome, loyal and kind, but he lacks that certain... bad boy.

And this is our first real hint that the seemingly morally flawless HTL is covering up some less than ideal nature.


The initial partnership of convenience/friendship is short lived: the PC is scouting her out as much as the reverse (and she definitely asks why 'more people', like the PC, don't rise up), and the PC is recognizing the tropes at play. This leads to an attempted arrest, the reveal, and her trope-exploitation of power (and its limits) reveals that she's not the Hero: she is the Hero's True Love, destined to be at the side of the one who liberates the City, and she's coming back with the True Hero. With that prophesy made she escapes, and the Tropes Themselves favor her escape.


During the True Hero Arc, HTL is the antagonist as much as the True Hero. She is his Dragon, as much as you are the Henchman to the Overlord, and the friendship/tension between the two of you doesn't change that you are on opposite sides. The PC is the force/advocate for acceptance of the status quo: that it's better to improve the system from within, that resisting the Evil Overlord is pointless, that Fate (the Overlord) can't be overturned. She is the advocate for rebellion: that an unacceptable system should be torn down from the outside, that the struggle itself has merit, that she will fight her fate, no matter how futile. In a deliberate case of mixed messaging, she even claims that it's because she's good and willing to fight fate that she is fated to win.

Ultimately trying to kill the Evil Overlord herself (brazenly trying to beat the expected showdown, prover her point, and be the Hero), her failure and defeat at the hands of the Henchman throw her back in the role of captured damsel. This is actually a result of the Henchman's plan, to provoke her into a hasty Hero gambit so that he could capture her and exploit the trope of the Damsel in Distress to lure out the True Hero in a case of Honor before Reason.

With a staged execution of HTL being the basis for a trope-laden trap (and mid-game final boss), the Henchman is able to exploit the Tropes to capture the True Hero, defying fate by preventing the match between the True Hero and the Evil Overlord.

HTL is devastated by this, on multiple levels. It's all her fault, it's because she tried to be the Hero and fell into the Trope of the Damsel... but at the same time, the PC defied Fate. The PC, by exploiting the trope, beat the prophesy. It's a world-shattering paradigm shift... but it's on hold with the True Hero due to be executed. Or rather, she tries to exploit it by begging, cajoling, and even attempting to seduce the Henchman (or even the Overlord) and offering to become their Concubine in exchange for the True Hero's life. The PC's trope-awareness mitigates this, but she even pulls out the Henchman's deepest fear: that if the True Hero dies, then the goodness we want to see in the city will be lost forever. That the Evil Overlord's reign really will become permanent.

The Henchman troubled with doubts, goes to the True Hero for a meaningful conversation... and can try to free the True Hero. It fails, obviously, but the Evil Overlord in a act of mercy/gratitude/was spying on HTL all along and knows how tricky those Damsels can be, gives the PC a pardon and sends the HTL, now Hero-less, out of the city.

Alternatively, the PC who doesn't try to jailbreak gets to ask a boon and, after the Meaningful Talk with the True Hero, asks for HTL to be freed.

Either way, HTL is forced to watch the execution of her True Hero, and freed and sent out of the city, both burdened by the defeat... but freed from her previous destiny.

Being what she is, a fighter for justice, HTL returns to the fight as a rebel, targeting the evilist of the Evil Overlord's forces... but it's mixed bag for her. She wants/feels obligated to seek revenge for the True Hero. She still hates evil. But with the PC also clearing out the worst of the Lieutenants, the Evil Empire is becoming not so Evil. She's losing a reason to be here, but here she stays.

She's metaphorically circling the drain, and in doing so a lot of her inner flaws are beginning to emerge. Turns out she has a bit of a foul mouth, likes to drink, believes in Evil unto Evil, and her initial saintly patience and kindness for the peasants is actually a front.

HTL hates oppression and hates control, and most of all hates how she never got to rule her own life. She was fated without her say (though she enjoys fighting evil), engaged without her consent (though she was close and respected the virtue of the True Hero), but most of all she's dedicated to fighting fate and has no patience for those who submit to it. Even the Poor Masses: those who wait for a Hero to save them are below contempt, and she really only likes the ones willing to fight for themselves.

She wants a rebellion, not a tepid acceptance of a bearable status quo, and it grows unreasonable to the point that she's a parody: preaching rebellion in the streets, ignored by the masses, and so un-threatening that she's even left alone by the Legions of Doom since taking her off the street would cause more trouble.


The crux of HTL's character arc is confronting her own selfishness. While she's not a bad person and dislikes those who do evil things, the reason she could never be a Hero is because it's really all about her: she's more interested in trying to regain control of her own fate than in helping others. Rather than accept her role and making the most of it, like the True Hero or the Henchman or the Village Masses, she's the type who will rebel just for the sake of rebelling... all the while missing that even then she is falling into tropes.

This ultimately sparks a realization moment that she's not as virtuous as she wanted to be: she's self-centered, she likes to fight, and she isn't the saint she wanted to be. But, at the same time... even flawed, she's still a good person. She respects and admires those who try to improve their lot in life, who 'rebel against stagnation': she wants to fight evil rather than just fighting: she wants people to take a hold of their own lives because that in and of itself is good. Realizing all of this, good and bad, helps her find peace after the True Hero's death.


After contemplating and considering, HTL figures out the best form of defiance of the Tropes that she can do: by NOT rebelling against the Evil Overlord, by NOT trying to become the replacement Hero for the True Hero (the one time the desperate fates might let her be the Hero), by letting the Evil Empire exist in name while the Evil Overlord becomes more benign, hands off, and letting people do as they will... by not doing all of these things, she can defy the Tropes who are trying to stop it.


Come the end-game, HTL is at peace with the True Hero's death and passes on revenge. While the Anti-Hero offers her the chance to become the Hero she always wanted, that he would fill the role of her HTL, she is most disgusted by him above all others due to his obedience to the tropes.


HTL's contribution to the end-game is a separate path to beat the Anti-Hero. Hers is more about a thematic rebellion against the Tropes. How, I'm not sure: it needs to subvert the expected, to break the setup in such a way that even the Anti-Hero goes 'you cheat.' How to do that though... a kick in the balls? That's combat pragmatism. A double-bluff Betrayal? That's the Starscream.

Convincing the Populace to march in a mass demonstration in support of the Evil Overlord, turning the Anti-Hero into the Public Villain and so stripping him of all his Hero-powers, and thus easy-pickings for the Legions of Doom?

That's got potential.



(That said: if the player chooses to side with Anti-Hero, I could see her going along withit because, hey, you are mastering/manipulating the Tropes to suit your desires, not slavishly obeying them.)



Option 3 needs some setup, though. Mind you, 'fighting both the Anti-Hero and the Overlord' to be sole ruler with you could work.

On the other note, the irony of her becoming your love interest if you fight both the Anti-Hero and the Overlord, both liberating the city and saving the day...

Well, that makes you the Hero, doesn't it? And if she's your True Love...

Irony. But the sort she can accept.




---

True Hero

It's late and I need to sleep soon. That said, a few points I want to make.

Thematically, the True Hero is the noblest version of 'follows all the tropes.' He is, in every respect, someone destined to do great things and be a great person. Unlike the Evil Overlord, who was fated to be Evil, and unlike the Hero's True Love, who rebels at her fate, True Hero is at peace with the Tropes and his role with them.

Why?

Because the Hero knows that the Tropes, while causing trouble from time to time, ultimately lead to Happily Ever After.

The True Hero is often made out to be a simple, fool, or trope blind: he succumbs to Honor Before Reason, after all. But in actuality, the True Hero is possibly one of the wisest people out there. He understands more about the Tropes than any other character: the Evil Overlord knows some through study and some through painful learning, HTL learned through personal annoyance, even the Anti-Hero just obeys rather than thinks.

But the True Hero knows that the Tropes exist to guide to a Happy Ending... and has a faith that no matter what it may seem like, the Tropes aren't malevolent and uncaring and that this story will have a Good End. Everything the True Hero does, even following the Tropes that lead to his own death, he gladly went through in the faith that it would ultimately lead to a better ending, even if it has its costs and bittersweet along the way. It seems foolish, naive, and blinded, since it leaves the Evil Empire in control...

But in many ways is correct, because in letting himself be killed, fate derailing, and the Anti-Hero being drawn out, a much greater evil than the Evil Overlord is finally stopped. The Anti-Hero is defeated (or co-opted), the Evil Empire is begins to reform without the choas or upheaval of collapse, and even the Evil Overlord is freed from his forced villainy and becomes benign.

It leans a bit on the fourth wall in retrospect, but the True Hero is possibly the wisest, most perceptive person in the room, even in a jail cell. He understands the Evil Overlord's position and fears, and doesn't take an opportunity to kill the Daughter (the one thing the Overlord truly feared). He understands HTL's frustration with the tropes, even if he doesn't share them, and both tries to help her and bears her no malice for her actions. And, above all, he has an incredibly important discussion with the Henchman about the nature of free will in relation to the tropes: does the PC follow the tropes because exist, or does the PC choose the tropes to follow, and find new ones when the old ones won't do?

This is, obviously, the question of free choice that plagues the PC's conscience for some time... but ultimately allows the PC to overcome the Anti-Hero.



It's subtle, but if/when the player realizes that the True Hero understood free choice and chose the tropes anyway, it should open the question: was he the True Hero because he was fated to follow those tropes from the start, or was he the True Hero because he *chose* to follow the tropes of the True Hero, and assumed the mantle of his own volition? One is being a slave to destiny, but the other is making destiny by accepting self-sacrifice.



The True Hero is, to me, a cross between Buddha and a Saint. Someone you might not take seriously at first, but who actually expresses a maturity and virtue worth major respect.

I don't normally respect fictional characters, but he is one who should ultimately be respected.

(It's also why, even though she didn't love him, HTL cares about him greatly.)



===


The Tropes

And I am seriously thinking about lampshading it all by outright calling them that.

In the setting I don't want to call them 'gods' or 'spirits' or 'the Fates', but they might as well be. The Tropes are an omnipresent but invisible force in the universe, worshiped by some and cursed by others for making things happen for unknown reasons. Like the sight of wind over a wheat feel, you can't see or taste or touch them but you know something happened.

The Tropes are a vague, mysterious force. They may be sentient, they may not be. You'll find claims to both. They aren't quite fate, they don't make deals, but they are somewhat predictable to those who learn the patterns.

Few people, however, are able to: generally just those dealing in prophesies and ancient wisdom. The Evil Overlord, as part of gaining his powers, had some sort of encounter with the raw forces of the Tropes, who gave him his True Power (actually a not-quite ultimate weapon: something that could be used to defeat the great evil of the backstory, but which would ultimately be ended by the True Hero). The Evil Overlord has books on the subject, with some contradictory information and history.

The True Hero doesn't describes them as 'the rules of existence', comparable to gravity. He offers the view that they were 'created with a purpose', to create a story with a happy ending. Which, being the fourth-wall breaking Buddha figure, is kind of correct.

The Anti-Hero treats them as gods. His viewpoint is that their dominance must be preserved, for the Greater Good of the world continuing. The Evil Overlord surviving threatens to break the tropes, and thus threatens the future of existence. Everything is justified to restore balance.



Something that no one except the True Hero and the PC should really get is the idea of trope-subverting being a following of the tropes. Most people think of it as 'obey or rebel', without realizing that rebelling against the tropes will, by their nature, fall into other tropes.

 

===

 

I also wrote...

 

Bah, rereading what I wrote and thoughts hit me. Seem like good ideas now.



The great evil that the Evil Overlord slew with his penultimate power? The one that destroyed the PC's hometown in the back story, and was involved in the death of the wife?

What if it were spawned BECAUSE he refused to become the Evil Overlord?




HTL could actually work well with Option 3B. Where as the Evil Daughter Romance can get her to assume the throne and let Daddy retire without a fight, HTL's romance/third-way could involve fighting both the Anti-Hero and the Evil Overlord, and then the two of you leaving the city to pick its own destiny.




Also, a structure seems to be taking place in my head. A 6-sub-component story, roughly divided into two halves.

===

Disc 1

===

Intro/Familiarization Arc
-Fight low-level Heroes
-Meet the major characters
-Establish some tropes, mechanics, ideas
-Get to know the Evil Daughter and HTL
-Become Henchman

True Hero Arc: 2 Parts
HTL as the Dragon
-Rivalry arc with HTL, who operates much like a Hero
-Begin development/reform for Evil Daughter
-Capture the HTL

True Hero Arrives
-Overall Disc 1 Boss
-Prison connection with HTL
-Evil Daughter shows progress
-Exploit Tropes to major advantage
-Capture/Meeting/Death of True Hero

===

Post-True Hero Arc

Reformation Arc
-Evil Overlord gets less Evil
-Evil Lieutenants Power Struggle
-Evil Daughter finds she enjoys ruling/taking down bad officials
-HTL tries to spark a renewed rebellion
-Slight increase in Minor Heroes


Destiny Unbalanced Arc
-Anti-Hero introduced, subtly at first, seeking a Hero to empower to beat the Overlord
-An increase of Heroes as Destiny tries to rebalance and compensate for death of True Hero
-Evil Daughter and Evil Overlord lead a mostly benign Empire
-HTL faces her problems.
-Anti-Hero reveals himself, will cause massive showdown with massive damage
-Anti-Hero proves trope mastery, beats PC handily

Anti-Hero Arc
-Multiple paths for victory
-Henchman chooses their destiny
-Gather keys for victory
-Finale


The End

[Dean_the_Young]

Now, for a moment of admission of weakness and concern...

 

===

So, on a brief INS note...

I was reading an article with a picture about how INS in Syria, like in Afghanistan, sometimes go around with rock-camouflaged blankets or what not to throw over themselves when aircraft fly over. It was good and all, actually hard to tell the people from the rocks...

...but they looked like turtles, man. People-turtles. Alost like a earth-version of a Japanese spirit/thingie called a kappa, which is a anthromorphic water-turtle but still.

Which convinced me: if the Empire will get Cat-eyed people inspired by Kevlars, the INS will get rock-Kappas, who are utterly invisible to Dragons because they turtle up and look like rocks when a Dragon flies over.


That is all. (About INS.)

---


Now, for a moment of quiet discontent.

I'm concerned my setup of Henchman, particularly Evil Daughter and HTL, is somehow sexist/mysogenistic.

I mean, I can identify it a bit with the Evil Daughter: 'woman needs man to stand up to her' isn't a particularly flattering way to put it, but it's a bit of the character type. And I can see some people not liking the deconstruction of HTL (who, it should be pointed out, is supposed to be thrown into and rebelling against classic damsel tropes).


But at the heart of it, I think Bioware spoiled me: I'm so used (and expecting) RPG-esque games to allow me to choose a character's gender that I feel a bit wrong if the story isn't set up accordingly.


I mean, sure, I could add male supporting characters: how about a seemingly insane but actually kooky-lovable Mad Doctor (take that, kooky-stereotype characters). Or I could throw in a McHunk in, well, just about any position (oo-er). I could even change the gender of one of the two female leads: spoiled Evil Son could possible work (though I have a feeling he'd be written off as 'brat' quicker than Evil Daughter as '******').


But that would just be... artificial, you know? Granted, only HTL is really tied to the plot, but it'd be adding them for the sake of adding them, not because I have a role in mind for them. And changing the gender/nature of the two female leads just doesn't feel right: HTL is a deconstruction of a specific gender type, and (my stellar opinionof the audience considered) I don't think you could pull off a male evil brat... but for the purpose of a 'why does she care about you,' the PC (default male) kind of needs to be the impact character and unconditional interest. But even I don't like the 'female character's world revolves around a man' angle.


Ugh. Even I dislike that: at least with the potential for a female protagonist, it comes off more along the lines of 'you stood up to me: I like that' rather than mysogynistic 'man puts me in my place = love!'


What's probably going to end up happening is I'll try and think up an equivalent two supporting male characters, just to give balance and justify a female protagonist. It's not like they'd be any less non-critical on than, say Evil Daughter: give an early-game quest forcing a meeting, and then they'd be a side quest/supporting character like her.

And I do think a female protagonist could work: I think Jennifer Hale is over-used in Bioware's female voice acting/in my mental mindscape, but she definitely had the commanding tone and snark as a Renegade to fit the idea of a trope exploiter. I defaulted male PC, but that's more because it formed in my (male-dominated) head.


But male supporting characters... I really can't think of a good one!

Legion of Doom? Risks being expendible, and I'm trying to avoid the PC having named companions when possible.

Scientist? Likely too crazy, or too woobie, or... I won't to pretend to have an idea of how to make an evil scientist potential romance bait.

A doctor? Maybe, but-


Honestly, the only archetype I can really think of is 'PC's Lieutenant': an Alenko-esque officer-flunky, who is your PC's chief subordinate. Probably would need to be a local recruit, and he could be a non-evil look at the 'what sort of person becomes a minion of the Evil Overlord?' For the PC, it was guilt and fatalism: for the Lieutenant, it could be a steady paycheck and security. Not particularly sadistic or cruel, and so a good supporting match to a non-evil PC.


I could see that, and work that. The Lieutenant.


But the other male... outright evil is off, and crazy/cooky is probably a mood killer. Mad Scientist too kooky, Mad Doctor too sociopathic or wooby.


The Evil Overlord's Architect? The guy who builds the prisons/castles/great works, and is key to the defenses/layout of the city?

An architect, unlike a Mad Scientist/Doctor, could be more sane while still being 'the intelligent guy.' He could also be the go-to guy for Artifacts and Ancient Ruins, which could help in the end-game.

 

---

 

Thinking on it a bit more. I hate to be stereotypical, but I think it's safe to say I don't know what girls would like.

The only idea I'm having is that the scientist be something of an adorkable character: the sort of unaware, wellmeaning silliness that makes Alistair and Merrill endearing to their fans. Say a engineer who's trying so hard to be bad, the 'evil architect', but failing horribly by comically missing the point and being a nice guy.

'My slave laborers are in horrible condition! Treat them better so they can work better!'
'In my quest to design the ultimate prison, I've included a pool, and sauna, and a salon for recreation...'
'In order to put super weapons in space, I shall create the world's first great Space Colony!'

That kind of adorable trying-to-be-bad-but-failing charm.

Kinda.

 

===

 

anon said...

 

I would say that you've crafted HTL and the Evil Daughter with care and with respect. I think that making them the most awesome and real people they can be is way more respectful to women than writing in a McHunk or whatever.

Re female PC – evil overlords sometimes do have female lieutenants, right? Is that a trope in itself? I can see it working, but I think you'd need to do a *lot* of extra writing to do her justice. The whole HTL-Daughter-PC dynamic plays out very differently with a Henchwoman.

 

===

 

I said...

 

Female henchmen can occasionally fall under The Baroness trope (or at least the one from Austin Powers does). Although, 'chilly disposition and more than a touch of dominatrix about her' isn't quite what I was thinking. Fortunately, there are shades, and the points of militarism (good for Commander of the Guard) and interest in power (including those of other people) is applicable to the story. It does have a legacy of sexist baggage in its history, but that need not be carried.

http://tvtropes.org/...ain/TheBaroness

(Alternatively, you can dip into the Dark Action Girl trope


It's funny. You mention the HTL-Daughter-PC dynamic... but I haven't even felt there was one. Not really: for the most part, I've not really seen them interacting, and their individual arcs were always more vis-a-vis the PC than in the context of the other. Nor does it really strike me as Daughter-PC or HTL-PC dynamic really being dependent on the PC's gender. Not really, at least. HTL plays with it, but isn't necessarily dependent on it.


For Daughter-PC, the overwhelming dynamic is that the PC is not a sycophant/had the balls to say 'you done bad.' It's not romantic/sexual tension, and it originates and can execute the same regardless. Though it does dabble with a 'you are a pivotal person in my life', it can really be played straight whether the PC is a male or a female.

(And, if we had to succumb to the modern Bioware's 'there must at least be a bi-option', well... Jade Empire already broke the brush, so to speak.)


While I definitely mentioned/would keep the Implied Sexual Tension for HTL and the male-PC, most of the actual dynamic isn't gender-specific. HTL's discontent and character arc is more about her being slotted into the tropes and vis-a-vis the True Hero. While there's a bit of extra ironic oomph should the PC be male, I don't think it would be so different if the PC was female. The friendly drinks at the Inn and the 'my fiance lacks a certain... bad boy' could be played as female bonding/comiserating.

(And, for kicks and giggles, the first encounter/rescue could have the HTL mistake a heavily-armored PC for a male regardless.)

But really, afterwards and after adjusting the True Hero Arc's finale, there's not much gender-specific interaction in her core arc. HTL is more about spiraling around in her own issues than the PC... and since her primary connection/resentment with the PC is that the PC is somehow breaking fate/the tropes, the PC's female angle could be played up for it. A case of 'why are you able to break the tropes?'

 

===

 

I also wrote...

 

So I was reading the Evil Overlord list, and some thoughts for supporting characters came to mind.

First, I think using an architect as a major male supporting character remains a good idea. The character of the character, I'm not so sure about, but there's a good deal that could be done with an architect: from various versions of build the base to other construction-related tropes, a builder has a lot of tropes associated with it.


Second, one of the funniest tropes is the '5 year old advisor' trope: that a good Evil Overlord should have a 5 year old on staff to try and point out any flaws in a plan and crack codes. If they can do either, the plan is thrown out.

Now, having an actual kid-character is tricky. And I definitely don't want a kid sidekick. Still, it occurred to me that it could be a good link-in to 'the common people' if the Henchman made liberal usage of civilians for support and resources/intel/etc.


Imagine that the Henchman, rather than living in the Fortress of Doom (because, really, who does but the Evil Overlord?), would live at an inn of some sorts. And in that boarding house, there are a lot of exceptionally clever/capable/well connected normals, who the Henchman has turned into his unofficial support group.

Need a business contact? Innkeeper knows people. Need a smith? He lives down the hall. Want to hear the city rumors? Etc. etc. A good way to concentrate a variety of support characters in one general location, and give the PC an 'off-duty' aspect as well. Throw in a local tavern, and good times.

Anyways, one of them could be a 5 year old kid. Either gender, really, but I'm thinking boy- just because it would amuse me for the boy to be hero-worshipping a male-PC, but possibly having a precocious crush of the female PC. That would make me crack up a bit.