10 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It think it would be a really good idea to have our characters be able to specialize in specific weapons as opposed to generic one handed or two handed or bows. 

 

What I mean by this ? Well, in previous DA games we had trees for one handed weapons, two handed weapons and bows.

 

However, there are a lot of types of one handed, two handed stuff, shields and each one actually require a different technique and style to use or master. Here are some examples of specific weapon types

 

One Handed Weapons :- Longswords, bastard swords, broadswords, long knives, Rapier, Sabres, Scimitars, Katanas, Axes, Maces, Mauls, Clubs, Daggers, Tantos.

 

Two Handed Weapons :- Battlestaves, battleaxes, warhammers, glaives, yaris, greatswords, nodachis, halbreds.

 

Shields:- Kite, Tower, Buckler

 

Bows :- Longbows, Shortbows, Crossbows

 

So what I suggesting is that for the passives for say, one handed weapons, there are branches that allow you to master, say, using Axes and clubs by giving some boosts. For example, using axes can cause DOT bleed damage and reduce armor effectiveness whereas investing in a perk that focuses on katana mastery grants increased weapon attack speed and increased decapitation chances should one be wielding a katana.

 

Additionally, it would be even more interesting if we can have staff proficiency.

 

We had a staff passive gains for DA2 and DAO but never actually had staff skill tree. It would be fun if we can be able to master specific staff types. For example mastering a fire staff boosts your fire attack, gives you some fire resist and staff attacks can now ignite a target for a DOT damage. Whereas mastering a nature staff boosts your nature spells, gives you nature resists and your base staff attacks can now stun targets. 

 

It would make for a more interesting gameplay and add a lot of re-playability. Additionally we can really customize our character. 

 

Thoughts and comments ? 

[Fast Jimmy]

I love it

In addition, I'd like us to gain an affinity for particular weapons.

For instance, Sten's sword is pretty underpowered by the time you find it in the game. It's often much more tempting to use a different, better weapon than Asala by the endgame, even if there are RP reasons to do otherwise (same for Allistair and Duncan's shield).

I'd like to receive bonuses for using the same weapon and developing a style to incorporate its exact weight, shape and bend. This would even give life to "old" pieces of equipment received early in game, because if the player gained a higher level of mastery over that weapon type as well as the weapon itself, it could keep pace with the new pieces of equipment that come across the path.

Just an idea.

[Wulfram]

I don't really like specific weapon proficiencies, to be honest.  The mechanical differences tend to end up being basically irrelevant - they have to be, for balance - but obfuscated through overly complex and pointless mechanics (Swords do 1 DPS, maces do 9/10 DPS + 1/10th chance of doing double damage, Axes do 8/10 DPS + 2/100 for 10 seconds).

 

So all it really comes down to is picking the weapon that happens to get the most powerful magic items.  Which you have no real way of knowing until replays, so it's not much of a real choice.  Though most of the time the best choice ends up being sword. 

 

Also it'll increase the proportion of items that are basically vendor trash.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

There is more reason to pick a certain weapon proficiency than strictly DPS, though.

[Wulfram]

^

 

Not much of one, in my experience.  I mean, you might add a stun chance, or have a weapon with defensive bonuses.  But it always ends up being very meh to me.

 

An action game it would be a bit different, because handling characteristics are more significant there.  Though I'd still rather encourage experimentation and selecting the right tool for the job rather than encouraging specialisation there.

 

And if you want to have those sorts of choices, you can do it without restriction player choice of weaponry so much.  I'd much rather have a weapon independent talent tree than one that's tied down so specifically.

[Dank Rafft]

I like the idea but I agree with Wulfram. Devs tend to never balance out the different aspects of weapons.

 

^

There is more reason to pick a certain weapon proficiency than strictly DPS, though.

In most modern RPG's I've played it was all about DPS. DPS was the way to compensate the disadvantages (of the class). And I doubt it will be different in DA:I. Sure, you can choose to pick some weapons for aesthetic reasons but this can't be measured in numbers. What can be measured is efficiency (e.g. DPS).

[Fast Jimmy]

DPS is the scourge of modern RPGs. It has led to the widespread dilution and reduction of the genre to being flat, boring and tasteless in many cases.

Making a rogue able to do as much DPS as a fighter allowed developers to get away with having rogues do nothing outside of combat, such as sneaking/traps/lock picking/what-have-you. Making a Mage less squishy and able to cast as many spells as they want (including their nuke spells) made magic a weak shadow of itself, where blasting opponents over and over with a hail of fiery death did the same damage as a fighter swinging a sword really hard.

Class balancing, cooldowns, DPS... these are all DISEASES from the MMO-ification of the genre that make RPGs weak versions of their former selves. Designed to reduce everything to either PvE or PvP, with no other aspect to the genre worth considering.


Turn based, Vancian casting, reagents, weapon types/resistances, non-combat skills... these ideas aren't perfect, but they worked to stem the tide of exactly what RPG combat should not be - using the same most powerful moves and tactics over and over and over again and again, no matter if you are fighting the lowest lackey or the biggest boss. The fact that RPGs have become this very thing is a huge loss to the industry.

[Dank Rafft]

DPS is the scourge of modern RPGs. It has led to the widespread dilution and reduction of the genre to being flat, boring and tasteless in many cases.

Making a rogue able to do as much DPS as a fighter allowed developers to get away with having rogues do anything outside of combat, such as sneaking/traps/lock picking/what-have-you. Making a Mage less squishy and able to cast as many spells as they want (including their nuke spells) made magic a weak shadow of itself, where blasting opponents over and over with a hail of fiery death did the same damage as a fighter swinging a sword really hard.

Class balancing, cooldowns, DPS... these are all DISEASES from the MMO-ification of the genre that make RPGs weak versions of their former selves. Designed to reduce everything to either PvE or PvP, with no other aspect to the genre worth considering.


Turn based, Vancian casting, reagents, weapon types/resistances, non-combat skills... these ideas aren't perfect, but they worked to stem the tide of exactly what RPG combat should not be - using the same most powerful moves and tactics over and over and over again and again, no matter if you are fighting the lowest lackey or the biggest boss. The fact that RPGs have become this very thing is a huge loss to the industry.

I agree with you in the extreme change (or maybe dilation) of the CRPG genre but this is just the logical consequence from a marketing and psychological perspective. The majority of today's gamers want to play something like this. And I have to admit that I'm one of these persons. I tried to replay Baldur's Gate (2), in which I spend more than three years of my lifetime, or something alike but I can't. It bores me. I don't know why and I don't care since this is just gaming, a hobby which is still very satisfying. I understand your frustration but it is as always: if there are "winners" there have to be "losers". Maybe there will be an oldschool RPG like what you described in the near future.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm not even neccessarily an old-school RPG fan. Vancian casting, for example, is something that really is good in PnP formats, but loses its value in a video game one, where foreknowledge and reloading can make it simply a chore rather than an interesting mechanic.

But the problem with RPGs being all combat, all the time, never offering any else and becoming glorified button mashers lies soley at the feet of DPS and other MMO features. Cooldowns, buffs, crafting, drop rates... all of this stems from having the entire purpose and focus of a character's build to deal the absolute most damage possible over the least amout of time. Nowhere is it required to diversify, to account for different challenges, to have any skills or gameplay that doesn't involve killing. And killing in the same exact fashion, using the same tactics, no less.

Which is sad. PnP RPGs, which was the source of CRPGs and the goal they used to attempt to attain, allowed for gameplay of practically anything. One could use he mechanics to build a castle, siege a nation, roleplay a character that never threw a punch, or to pursue your objectives in a manner as open-ended as possible. That will always be something that cannot be reached by video games (at least within our understanding of technology as it exists today), but that shouldn't mean the entire industry should give up trying.

When the only objective is to kill, all classes become simple MMO subtypes. Instead of classes that are actually different when combat isn't going on.

[Wulfram]

How much damage you can do over time is pretty fundamental to any game with hitpoints.  The only change MMOs made there was changing it from damage per turn to a real time measure.  Well, and MMOs have a huge amount of nerds talking on the internet to analyse the system to death, quickly determine which options are the best and spread this about, whereas isolated PnP groups can easily live in the wholly mistaken belief that monks are overpowered for years on end without someone correcting them.

 

And Rogues were made equal in combat to other classes because their out of combat uses were minimal and boring in CRPGs.  Not the other way around.  And they haven't really lost much of their utility, as a rule.  They open locks and sneak, just like they do in pen and paper.

[Fast Jimmy]

How much damage you can do over time is pretty fundamental to any game with hitpoints. The only change MMOs made there was changing it from damage per turn to a real time measure. Well, and MMOs have a huge amount of nerds talking on the internet to analyse the system to death, quickly determine which options are the best and spread this about, whereas isolated PnP groups can easily live in the wholly mistaken belief that monks are overpowered for years on end without someone correcting them.

Not true. Before the days of cooldowns and regenerating mana, you'd be unable to blast the same powerful spells/skills over and over again against every enemy. Here was the need for rationing, for saving things until an emergency or when the situation truly demanded it.

That went out the door when games like WoW came out.

And rogues "sneak" now only in the most rudimentary sense. They are hidden during combat so they can perform a backstab attack, at best. PnP campaigns I've played let characters infiltrate entire fortresses without getting into one fight, bring down entire kingdoms without killing one person.

Did CRPGs reach that level of open-ended news? No. But it seems that developers quit trying.