24 réponses à ce sujet

[efd731]

So, in DA2 anders supposes that the red lyrium idol acts like a demon, and this got me thinking, with the red Templars as a faction maybe their descent into madness isn't entirely on them. If the fade tears somehow change or corrupt lyrium maybe the Templars supplies of lyrium got corrupted and to stave off withdrawal they used red lyrium out of desperation. Or maybe Templars withlyrium in their bodies came close to a fade tear and this caused the change. Thoughts?

[Anvos]

No they merely chose to use the red lyrium to give them more power to deal with the fact the templar order split over how they wanted to deal with mages.

[shonawarrior]

No they merely chose to use the red lyrium to give them more power to deal with the fact the templar order split over how they wanted to deal with mages.

no, in varric's side quests of DA2, the stuff actually tore open the veil in Bertrand's house, summoning spirits, and it also animated statues during the final boss. Red lyrium is much more powerfull and much more dangerous than blue lyrium.

[Taleroth]

My assumption about the red lyrium is that with the split, the Templars lost access to the Chantry's reserves. So they went to find their own, probably following leads from Meredith's people.

[Johun]

My assumption about the red lyrium is that with the split, the Templars lost access to the Chantry's reserves. So they went to find their own, probably following leads from Meredith's people.

My thoughts as well. After the whole kerfuffle with Lambert, the Templars who wanted to go after mages more aggressively lost Chanty support and lyrium supply. Bartrand openly mentions selling the location of the Primeval Thaig, perhaps to Meredith and/or her associates.

[Nightdragon8]

So, in DA2 anders supposes that the red lyrium idol acts like a demon, and this got me thinking, with the red Templars as a faction maybe their descent into madness isn't entirely on them. If the fade tears somehow change or corrupt lyrium maybe the Templars supplies of lyrium got corrupted and to stave off withdrawal they used red lyrium out of desperation. Or maybe Templars withlyrium in their bodies came close to a fade tear and this caused the change. Thoughts?

ok.. put it like this at what point do you blame a drug and not the user? Do you then not blame a druggy for taking that first try of a drug? or the second time? For me I say the second time,

 

However.... if someone where to come up to you and hand you a crystal and say, let this assorb into your body and you will gain magic powers. what would you think and do?

 

Personally, i will keep it and ask for it to get anylzed by someone i know. Then I would try it. if everything tests out ok, and isn't something that will kill me or cause an acid trip.

[efd731]

I could care less about the initial ingestion of lyrium, I only proposed this idea as a way to make them seem less like the Templar equivalent of blood mages(ie desperate angry power hungry) and avoid comparisons to me3's Cerberus. You know all that talk about "they just needed another mindless enemy faction". This would make them tragic victims that the inquisitor may be able to help instead of generic enemy #4583

[Rotward]

Red lyrium being infected by demons? It would explain the red, but I doubt the Templars were "forced" to take it, by circumstance or otherwise. Templars are happy to use blood magic to track mages, why not demons to kill mages? 

[Nuloen]

why every one thinks that red lyrium is acting same way as idol?

that idol was surely worshiped how do you know that it didnt absorbed souls of those who have been sacrificed to it(Bartrand did it in his house) that could cause same effect as with demons possessing dead bodies (madness)

but red lyrium dont have to act same way, it could be just lyrium that absorbed blood from those sacrifices and became more powerful

[shonawarrior]

how did they even get that stuff, did it start grwing on meredith or did they go to the primitive thaig? Meredith and Bartrand didn't even ingest it yet they went bat **** insane. Ingesting it would be retarded after knowing what it does by mere contact

[Anvos]

Likely has to do with the fact it made a Knight Commander practically go Super Saiyan that was able to animate statues without putting a living spirit in them to guide them and it only apeared to backfire in an outwardly harmful way when she overused said powers. Also like I said the red templars were desperate for power since they don't even have the entire templar order and most nations are either busy with their own problems or are more moderate than the red templar view point.

 

Its also debatable how many people know that the idol made Bartrand mad, instead of just assuming dwarf went crazy on his own.  Plus he's a dwarf and most templars are humans meaning they could think it was a side effect caused due to him being a dwarf.  Not to mention that when said tales originate from a notorious yarn spinner called Varric that likely puts doubt to many if it was true or just hyperbole on his part.

[efd731]

But the thing is we've only assumed that. All we know is that they're enemies and they're called red Templars. Everything else is speculation. (It's extremely obvious that red lyrium is involved, but it's not confirmed) we don't even know if the red Templars are* a seperate faction from the main Templar host. Also Shona bartrand mentions sellin the lost thaig's location in da2

[deuce985]

I know this board brought it up a few times but I'd just like to say again I sure hope they're not some mindless mutated Templars. It sure does sound like the Cerberus plot from ME3 on the surface when you think about it. Of course, they could have much more to it than we know but I'd be lying if I said this plot in DAI doesn't have me concerned. Watching that PAX demo again that giant red lyrium thingy looked like a mutated Templar. God help us if they're just a mindless splinter faction that's a filler to kill throughout the game without us interacting with them much. I'm not even going to speculate on what's going on with that faction right now. I felt the Cerberus plot was kinda ridiculous in ME3 and one of the few things I didn't like about the game. Kinda strange how they were portrayed more as a grey organization in ME2 and then it's the complete opposite in ME3. It almost seemed like Bioware just decided to make Cerberus a mindless enemy running around simply because it was hard to pit the player against constant Reapers. You know, seeing as it took an entire fleet just to drop one. I hope it's not like that in DAI where they need some kind of filler enemy...

 

So yea, let's just hope they're a faction with a cause and not just a bunch of insane Templars running around getting high on Red Lyrium. Black and white can be good but it's rarely done well in video games.

 

Kinda OT but I'd say the plot in general has me concerned with DAI with this emphasis on exploration. It sounds like the main part of the game will be capturing keeps to gain influence. That sounds a lot like the one large suicide mission in ME2 to me where you just went around recruiting members for the final assault. I'd have to think Bioware is going to fill it in with a lot more than that though. I hope so...

 

On second thought, thinking about past Bioware games they haven't really deviated much from their formula. I guess some of their games are better at diguising it than others. *shrugs*

[efd731]

They're fully aware of the dislike of how Cerberus was handled, all that remains to be seen is if the fan reaction was sufficient to change how they handle a similar situation in this game. Hopefully it's better done, or at least better received.

[shonawarrior]

the whole concept of a red lyrium faction doesn't make sense. These idiots hate magic so much that they use and promote even more dangerous magic to the world, makes sense

[Nuloen]

the whole concept of a red lyrium faction doesn't make sense. These idiots hate magic so much that they use and promote even more dangerous magic to the world, makes sense

whole templars order doesnt make sense

normal people will be killed by slauthering many inoncent

mage abomination or someone who practiced blood magic is killed immediatelly even if it he/she didnt hurt anyone and even if it isnt confirmed that blood magic is as dangerous as chantry says

(im sure chantry sayd so becouse they needed an excuse to attack Tevinter ages ago and now they just cant take it back)

[Rotward]

whole templars order doesnt make sense

normal people will be killed by slauthering many inoncent

mage abomination or someone who practiced blood magic is killed immediatelly even if it he/she didnt hurt anyone and even if it isnt confirmed that blood magic is as dangerous as chantry says

(im sure chantry sayd so becouse they needed an excuse to attack Tevinter ages ago and now they just cant take it back)

This is a forum, not a text messenger. I have no idea what you just said. 

[Samahl na Revas]

I have to agree with Nuloen to some degree. The current Templar order has become too focused on mages that they ignore other dangers and threats such as Reavers, I am not saying that Maleficarum is not an issue.

 

As for Blood magic not being dangerous, it is, the danger is proliferated in DA 2. However, there are instance where it seems that blood magic may be the only way to unlock a gate or is needed in some way or something to that effect. It would be ironic and hilarious if blood magic was needed in DA:I to keep the tear shut. 

 

Speaking of irony the Templar sect that turned to red lyrium if the speculation prove true need to reevaluate their stance, especially if red lyrium is in anyway related to demons. 

 

 

Edit: Are they potentially the Cerberus of DA? At this point it definitley is looking and shaping that way. I mean I can't imagine any reason for "any" Templar to attack a small village. Even if the village had been harboring mages or some small evil I doubt the villagers would prove worthy adversaries.

[Grieving Natashina]

This is a forum, not a text messenger. I have no idea what you just said. 

Hold on, I got this.  I swear I was a teacher in a previous life or something.

 

 

whole templars order doesnt make sense

normal people will be killed by slauthering many inoncent

mage abomination or someone who practiced blood magic is killed immediatelly even if it he/she didnt hurt anyone and even if it isnt confirmed that blood magic is as dangerous as chantry says

(im sure chantry sayd so becouse they needed an excuse to attack Tevinter ages ago and now they just cant take it back)

Attempting translation:

 

The whole Templar order doesn't make sense.  Even normal people will be killed, the Templars slaughtering many that are innocent.  It doesn't matter if they are an abomination or someone that practiced blood magic.  They'll be killed immediately even if they didn't hurt anyone by their actions.  That is, if it isn't confirmed to be as dangerous as the Chantry says.  I'm sure that the Chantry says that blood magic is bad because they wanted an excuse to attack Tevinter years ago.  Now, they can't take that stance back.

 

 

That what my understanding of what he said was, anyhow.  I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the post, just trying to help.

[MrMrPendragon]

Tbh I really just think they have "Red Lyrium Templars" who kill mages just so the player doesn't feel confused on which side (mages/templars) has the moral high ground.

This way, it's pretty clear that red lyrium templars can't really do anything good, so getting rid of them doesn't feel "biased" because as the Inquisitor, you should be all about making peace not taking sides.

[efd731]

I'm glad your username wasn't changed when the forums did.
Also, I'm assuming(read hoping) that they're doing something much more with the faction than "everyone is kinda bad, so don't hate them all". Or using them as filler/fodder. Could actually be an interesting plot point instead of a cringeworthy use of time.

[shonawarrior]

I have to agree with Nuloen to some degree. The current Templar order has become too focused on mages that they ignore other dangers and threats such as Reavers, I am not saying that Maleficarum is not an issue.

 

As for Blood magic not being dangerous, it is, the danger is proliferated in DA 2. However, there are instance where it seems that blood magic may be the only way to unlock a gate or is needed in some way or something to that effect. It would be ironic and hilarious if blood magic was needed in DA:I to keep the tear shut. 

 

Speaking of irony the Templar sect that turned to red lyrium if the speculation prove true need to reevaluate their stance, especially if red lyrium is in anyway related to demons. 

 

 

Edit: Are they potentially the Cerberus of DA? At this point it definitley is looking and shaping that way. I mean I can't imagine any reason for "any" Templar to attack a small village. Even if the village had been harboring mages or some small evil I doubt the villagers would prove worthy adversaries.

Reavers aint a danger because they are fully sane, and totally in control. They use they powers by getting hurt/ exposing themselves to pain, and only have a small amount of super strength

[renfrees]

I have to agree with Nuloen to some degree. The current Templar order has become too focused on mages that they ignore other dangers and threats such as Reavers, I am not saying that Maleficarum is not an issue.

Well, the Templar Order was created to supervise the mages, why shouldn't they?

[Samahl na Revas]

Reavers aint a danger because they are fully sane, and totally in control. They use they powers by getting hurt/ exposing themselves to pain, and only have a small amount of super strength

 

Turning to blood magic doesn't make a mage insane either, turning to abomination more often than not is the result of Maleficarum feeling like cornered mice. The point is if the Templar order is so against blood magic it should be against anything that is even slightly related to blood magic. Reavers devour the soul of their opponent, what degree of that is true for now is unknown. However, if an apostate were said to have an ability to devour souls the Templars would be at that person's door step yesterday.

 

The Templar order is meant to serve, mages so they are not a threat to themselves and others, and the Chantry. They are guardians, what are they guarding if they only serve the Chantry first and tranquil any mage who shows signs of opposition as it is in Kirkwall to the ideas of the Templar order. They guard nothing, even more so by not extending their vigilance towards other threats.

 

There is a difference between supervise and the attempt to control. My boss at work supervises me. Meaning, I know my responsibilities and I am free to work within my limitation as I see fit so long as I am not being a liability, this works well when you make your boss look good. The Chantry, the Circle, the Templar order they are three pillars meant to work together. The Chantry guides the faithful, The Templars guards and serve both the Chantry and Circle of Magi, the Circle of Magi uphold their duty in remaining vigilant against the corruption of demons and becoming a liability to the world (Saarebas from my perspective knows this well). This is not the state we find the world of Theadas in DA:O. The Chantry and Templars are more allied in their opposition and oppression of mages.

 

In guarding nothing, the most devoted Templars are easy prey to the trap of red lyrium: In serving only yourself, the most libertarian Magi are easy prey to the trap of blood magic. 

[shonawarrior]

Turning to blood magic doesn't make a mage insane either, turning to abomination more often than not is the result of Maleficarum feeling like cornered mice. The point is if the Templar order is so against blood magic it should be against anything that is even slightly related to blood magic. Reavers devour the soul of their opponent, what degree of that is true for now is unknown. However, if an apostate were said to have an ability to devour souls the Templars would be at that person's door step yesterday.

 

The Templar order is meant to serve, mages so they are not a threat to themselves and others, and the Chantry. They are guardians, what are they guarding if they only serve the Chantry first and tranquil any mage who shows signs of opposition as it is in Kirkwall to the ideas of the Templar order. They guard nothing, even more so by not extending their vigilance towards other threats.

 

There is a difference between supervise and the attempt to control. My boss at work supervises me. Meaning, I know my responsibilities and I am free to work within my limitation as I see fit so long as I am not being a liability, this works well when you make your boss look good. The Chantry, the Circle, the Templar order they are three pillars meant to work together. The Chantry guides the faithful, The Templars guards and serve both the Chantry and Circle of Magi, the Circle of Magi uphold their duty in remaining vigilant against the corruption of demons and becoming a liability to the world (Saarebas from my perspective knows this well). This is not the state we find the world of Theadas in DA:O. The Chantry and Templars are more allied in their opposition and oppression of mages.

 

In guarding nothing, the most devoted Templars are easy prey to the trap of red lyrium: In serving only yourself, the most libertarian Magi are easy prey to the trap of blood magic. 

Devour the souls of their opponents? BS. They just eat their flesh and blood remains. The only person reavers can corrupt, and sacrifice is themselves. Blood mages corrupt and sacrifice others as well as themselves. The Red Lyrium concept is retarded and stupid just like Mass Effect Cerberus and Reaper Tech. Honestly I expect some illusive man wanna be commander in there, giving bull **** speeches about how Red Lyrium will push for an anti magic perfect world, while it causes even more extreme dangerous magic side effects.