97 réponses à ce sujet

[CybAnt1]

 

Hmmm, hope use of a filtered word doesn't make this unallowable. 

 

This has to be the 5th or 6th version of this thread, by now.

[SgtElias]

Sexual orientation is a part of the human genome. If you are aroused equally by both sexes then that is part of your genetic makeup. As for life goals I am not sure if you understood me or not but as an example most homosexual men have no desire to reproduce whereas most heterosexual men do. Having progeny or not is a huge decision that is in part directed by sexual orientation. Moreover many studies have shown that homosexual men display more symmetry in brain hemispheres (akin to heterosexual women) and homosexual women display more asymmetry, (akin to heterosexual men). This would have an effect on the skills, inclinations and apptitude of individuals of differing orientation and would have an impact on decisions and goals as well. 

 

Unfortunately we do not have statistic for Thedas but one thing Bioware could have done is provided lore and background for why every person in Thedas is (potentially) bisexual. Maybe it is magic, custom, etc. Basically something other than; fans demand we make everyone bisexual. Characters lose consistency, continuity, etc.

 

Alright, so let's assume that all of this is true; that saying "most homosexual men don't want kids," (and related statements) are completely accurate. If one's orientation is completely integral to their personality in most ways (which seems to be your argument, please correct me if I'm wrong), in what way were DA2's four bisexual characters "fanservice?" What about them was inaccurate about their portrayal? If Merrill, Fenris and Anders were suddenly straight, what about their personalities would be different and more "realistic?"

 

And, um, every person in Thedas isn't bisexual. Four (less than half) of our party memebers are. And as we can see from Anders' example, everyone that isn't pretty darn obvious about their attraction to someone of the same gender right from the start is considered to be straight by default.

[Veruin]

 

 

Hmmm, hope use of a filtered word doesn't make this unallowable. 

 

This has to be the 5th or 6th version of this thread, by now.

It's not directed at anyone, so you'd have to be really sensitive/PC to be offended by it.

[Infighter]

I wish. I just know they are going to give the short-haired, hot knight dude to girls only again and I'm going to be so upset. 

 

So, the Companions' sexuality should be dependent on the PC, that doesn't really make much sense. 

It'd be like MShepard in ME3 hitting on Traynor, and when made aware of her orientation his response would be - 'OK, I understand, but the only other Female is Liara, and I am not into Blue Alien Sex, so,you're switching teams' 

 

I understand that you the want the game to be centered around you, and why not you paid hard cash for it , but if you reduce the romance to 'Yes Master, You are the Master, I live to serve the Master' it really takes... the 'romantic element' from it.

 

But why can't they just be all bisexuals? I always have a hard time understanding why it was so weird and immersion-breaking to have a group of friends (ie 4 people) being all bisexuals in DA2. It takes nothing away from the game and it adds nothing to people who don't care about their interest in the same-sex, while giving everyone the option to romance whoever the heck they want.

[Dio Demon]

Your sexuality defines you want it or not but as i said that you are nice doesn't mean that affect that you are lazy or not same with same with intelligence and being lazy.And yes it affect you and peoples around how you behave toward certain gender and see them.

 

He was flirting with females not with males and add to that he is ferelden when being hetero is seeing as something natural it is ridiculous to make everyone bi because not everyone is bi not everyone is hetero or ****** like in our world when we can say that being hetero is the dominant sexuality in our world and by dominant i mean most common but for example if we have ferelden where most peoples is hetero stick with that or dalish that also most peoples are hetero.It is hard say which coulture have most common current sexuality in da world but we know that certain culture have such...

Now that I'm in a less volatile mood, let's getta crackin.

 

I swear we've had this conversation before Kommandor. So for old times sake let's reminisce (I'm not being serious).

 

Just because someone flirts primarily with a certain sex does not mean they are ****** or heterosexual. There are a lot of social factors that affect outward behaviour such as I act completely different when I'm in public, with my friends and in my personal life. Anders primarily talked about women. So do I (I'm bisexual by the way) generally because that's the social norm of one of my gender. But if you ask me if a guy is good looking I'll answer you truthfully if I feel like it.

 

How people act in public does not give an accurate picture of how they actually feel, for example I could act like I like Jim when in actual fact I think he's a complete moron.

 

How do you know that 'everyone' is Fereldan is hetero? What makes Ferelden from Orlais or Antiva in terms of sexuality? Just because people don't say they're bi doesn't mean they aren't.

 

 

Also SgtElias stop making me use up all of my likes

[EmperorSahlertz]

The problem with playersexual characters is that it is a blatant objectification of that character. You could argue all day that from a development point fo view, that it is lazy writing, but then you would also have to recognize that it is cheaper and easier, which means more content in other areas.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about romance options, as long as they don't all just jump at me like slavering dogs.

[Jaison1986]

I wish. I just know they are going to give the short-haired, hot knight dude to girls only again and I'm going to be so upset. 

 

 

But why can't they just be all bisexuals? I always have a hard time understanding why it was so weird and immersion-breaking to have a group of friends (ie 4 people) being all bisexuals in DA2. It takes nothing away from the game and it adds nothing to people who don't care about their interest in the same-sex, while giving everyone the option to romance whoever the heck they want.

 

It's because their sexual orientation is more defined to be the way it is to please all the players instead of them having an sexuality due to their personal preferences.

 

For example, would people like if they had an yes man companion that agree with your every decision just to please them? Instead of an companion that agrees because it's their opinion?

[Xilizhra]

It's because their sexual orientation is more defined to be the way it is to please all the players instead of them having an sexuality due to their personal preferences.

 

For example, would people like if they had an yes man companion that agree with your every decision just to please them? Instead of an companion that agrees because it's their opinion?

It's not about pleasing PCs; their preferences are actually different in different universes.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Now that I'm in a less volatile mood, let's getta crackin.

 

I swear we've had this conversation before Kommandor. So for old times sake let's reminisce (I'm not being serious).

 

Just because someone flirts primarily with a certain sex does not mean they are ****** or heterosexual. There are a lot of social factors that affect outward behaviour such as I act completely different when I'm in public, with my friends and in my personal life. Anders primarily talked about women. So do I (I'm bisexual by the way) generally because that's the social norm of one of my gender. But if you ask me if a guy is good looking I'll answer you truthfully if I feel like it.

 

How people act in public does not give an accurate picture of how they actually feel, for example I could act like I like Jim when in actual fact I think he's a complete moron.

 

How do you know that 'everyone' is Fereldan is hetero? What makes Ferelden from Orlais or Antiva in terms of sexuality? Just because people don't say they're bi doesn't mean they aren't.

 

 

Also SgtElias stop making me use up all of my likes

Well i doubt that we had this conversation before because im writing in such thread for first time.

 

Hmm? Anders never was even flirting with someone and yet he only expressed intrest in females thedas won't rot you being ******/bi... so there is diffrence as it was nothing more than asspull because devs were lazy and mady everyone bi.It is pretty much clear that person can be open about as zevran and leliana were so nope i don't see this as problem as i said anders were intrested in womans and he is ferelden even merrill is dalish and they practice heterosexual relationships.

 

Making everyone bi is ridiculous as making everyone black because devs got lazy and want be politically correct... it is bad when mass effect which was always more action game and shooter than rpg makes some aspect of world and plot look better where that was done correctly.

 

I didn't said that everyone (because simple it is impossible for everyone to be hetero/******/bi so don't tell said that everyone most is how do i know that even from the warden comment that can be made and zevran respone that he forgot he is in ferelden seriously suggests that heterosexual relationship are definitely dominant in ferelden but as i said i don't claim that every ferelden have to be hetero as in our world heteroseuxal relationship is dominant doesn't mean that everyone is heterosexual...  

[pallascedar]

I wish. I just know they are going to give the short-haired, hot knight dude to girls only again and I'm going to be so upset. 

 

 

But why can't they just be all bisexuals? I always have a hard time understanding why it was so weird and immersion-breaking to have a group of friends (ie 4 people) being all bisexuals in DA2. It takes nothing away from the game and it adds nothing to people who don't care about their interest in the same-sex, while giving everyone the option to romance whoever the heck they want.

Because one thing that many straight people and gay people have in common is biphobia. It's a wonderful world.

[mucusShifters]

These kind of threads never end well, your pretty much saying that gay/lesbian/bisexual characters need a good reason to explain why their gay/lesbian/bisexual & if they don't its automatically fan service.

 

Well a good question is if the companions would still be bisexual if there was no romance in the game, and would their oreintation be fixed, if they decided to tell us, if there was no romance in the game? Most likely the companions wouldn't still be bi if there were no romances, and that's why it's fan service. A lot of people on this forum try too hard to be SJWs for no real reason, and they either intentionally misunderstand the fact that people don't have a problem with bisexuality itself, but the reaosn they are, or the users are just generally clueless. If people were straight for the sake of fullfiling a very small vocal minorities desire for everyone to be straight I think the problem would be the same.

 

If it's not a part of the character themselves, but a part of  external wish fullfilment, then it's fan service. If you can find *one* reason outside of fan service for all the characters to be bi, then you're making a sound argument. But for now it's mostly the romances being tools to satisfy a very small, whiny, vocal minority that would be enraged if BW didn't allow them to live out their fantasies that they take way too seriously.

[Ianamus]

For the record, we don't actually know what causes a particular person to have a particular sexual orientation. We know it's not that straightforward because identical twins don't always have the same orientation, despite having the same genes. That doesn't mean genetics don't play a role. but there's probably some combination of genes and environment involved. Like with pretty much everything else about the human mind. (And when I say "environment" I don't mean "having an overbearing mother makes you gay" and other ridiculous myths, but stuff like hormone exposure in utero.)

 

Very true, and I wish more people would acknowledge this. People who say "it's genetic" or "born this way" irritate me almost as much as people who claim sexuality is a choice, because as you said, there are cases of identical twins with different sexual orientations and we are all born exactly the same way: as asexual children.

 

Personally I believe that your experiences as a child can shape what you will eventually be attracted to to an extent, though what ultimately determines it remains a mystery. 

 

On topic: I want an equal number of options for everyone, but I dislike having every single LI being Bisexual. Not because "it doesn't fit their character" or any drivel like that, but because it means only one orientation are being represented. I also really don't like true "playersexuality" (though whether or not DA2's LI's were "playersexual" is debatable).   

[Dio Demon]

Well i doubt that we had this conversation before because im writing in such thread for first time.

 

Hmm? Anders never was even flirting with someone and yet he only expressed intrest in females thedas won't rot you being ******/bi... so there is diffrence as it was nothing more than asspull because devs were lazy and mady everyone bi.It is pretty much clear that person can be open about as zevran and leliana were so nope i don't see this as problem as i said anders were intrested in womans and he is ferelden even merrill is dalish and they practice heterosexual relationships.

 

Making everyone bi is ridiculous as making everyone black because devs got lazy and want be politically correct... it is bad when mass effect which was always more action game and shooter than rpg makes some aspect of world and plot look better where that was done correctly.

 

I didn't said that everyone (because simple it is impossible for everyone to be hetero/******/bi so don't tell said that everyone most is how do i know that even from the warden comment that can be made and zevran respone that he forgot he is in ferelden seriously suggests that heterosexual relationship are definitely dominant in ferelden but as i said i don't claim that every ferelden have to be hetero as in our world heteroseuxal relationship is dominant doesn't mean that everyone is heterosexual...  

All of modern societies primarily practice heterosexuality, does that mean I'm hetero? In Ferelden according to Zevran they are more modest than Antiva there's a difference.

 

Just because he only expressed interest in females does not mean he is only interested in females, some people don't like talking about their attraction to those of the same sex because of societal pressure or they just don't care.

 

Ugh I'd write a better answer but its 1:20 am here and I can't focus well this late.

[Emerald Rift]

The problem with playersexual characters is that it is a blatant objectification of that character. You could argue all day that from a development point fo view, that it is lazy writing, but then you would also have to recognize that it is cheaper and easier, which means more content in other areas.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about romance options, as long as they don't all just jump at me like slavering dogs.

 

I agree, as long as the npcs do not launch themselves at the Inquisitor at every turn (like in ME2), the "playersexual" option shouldn't be too much of a immersion problem.

[Heimdall]

I wish. I just know they are going to give the short-haired, hot knight dude to girls only again and I'm going to be so upset. 

 

 

But why can't they just be all bisexuals? I always have a hard time understanding why it was so weird and immersion-breaking to have a group of friends (ie 4 people) being all bisexuals in DA2. It takes nothing away from the game and it adds nothing to people who don't care about their interest in the same-sex, while giving everyone the option to romance whoever the heck they want.

There's an element of biphobia/homophobia for some people I expect.

 

I don't mind it especially, but it does strike my sense of immersion as a bit... overly convenient.  I mean, of the usually rather random collection of companions the PC gathers, all those open to a romantic attachment are fans of both teams?  I don't mind bisexual being represented as an orientation, but it being the only one present in such an otherwise diverse group just seems a bit improbable.  It makes it feel like the characters' orientation has more to do with giving the player options rather than being part of the characters themselves, which, as noted, objectifies them.  Hence the playersexual comment.

[pallascedar]

Well a good question is if the companions would still be bisexual if there was no romance in the game, and would their oreintation be fixed, if they decided to tell us, if there was no romance in the game? Most likely the companions wouldn't still be bi if there were no romances, and that's why it's fan service. A lot of people on this forum try too hard to be SJWs for no real reason, and they either intentionally misunderstand the fact that people don't have a problem with bisexuality itself, but the reaosn they are, or the users are just generally clueless. If people were straight for the sake of fullfiling a very small vocal minorities desire for everyone to be straight I think the problem would be the same.

 

If it's not a part of the character themselves, but a part of  external wish fullfilment, then it's fan service. If you can find *one* reason outside of fan service for all the characters to be bi, then you're making a sound argument. But for now it's mostly the romances being tools to satisfy a very small, whiny, vocal minority that would be enraged if BW didn't allow them to live out their fantasies that they take way too seriously.

I swear I've argued with you before. First, it's not fan service. Nobody whined, Bioware liked the reaction they got to Zev and Leliana and they thought "Hey, wouldn't it be great if players of all sexualities could make choices?" and so they wrote 4 bisexual characters in DA2. It's a great way to improve player experience in the game without hurting anybody [that matters]. The fan service argument is so annoying because absolutely everything put into a game is fan service. Games are written and designed to give enjoyment to the people playing them, romances, straight/bi/gay/reptilianalien/ladywhoneverleaveshersuit are no exception.

 

Second, this idea that a character needs a reason to be bi, but doesn't need a reason to be straight is just outright wrong. They could make every single companion whether romance-able or not bisexual and they wouldn't need a reason besides "Why not?". Being bisexual doesn't change who people are, and people need to stop freaking out about "What are the odds!?" in a world where we fight dragons. People have been writing entire worlds filled only with straight characters for decades and nobody thinks anything is wrong. In the entire world of Harry Potter the only queer person is an old man who has sworn himself to celibacy, but I don't see anybody wondering at what the chances are of that.

 

I don't know why I'm posting here. Blech.

[Xilizhra]

There's an element of biphobia/homophobia for some people I expect.

 

I don't mind it especially, but it does strike my sense of immersion as a bit... overly convenient.  I mean, of the usually rather random collection of companions the PC gathers, all those open to a romantic attachment are fans of both teams?  I don't mind bisexual being represented as an orientation, but it being the only one present in such an otherwise diverse group just seems a bit improbable.

Keep in mind that in DA2, half of them weren't human. Elves seem to have significantly higher bisexuality rates, judging from what we've seen.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The problem isn't that the characters are bisexuals. The problem is the REASON why they are bisexuals. It isn't done to enhance the character r tell their story, it is done for the simple and only purpose of appeasing the raving masses of fan who wants their dating simulator "Dragon Age edition" to cater to their every need. The problem is the objectification of the characters because of it.

[Veruin]

Keep in mind that in DA2, half of them weren't human. Elves seem to have significantly higher bisexuality rates, judging from what we've seen.

Low population, weak genetics, this...

 

It's like the elves WANT to go extinct.

 

The problem isn't that the characters are bisexuals. The problem is the REASON why they are bisexuals. It isn't done to enhance the character r tell their story, it is done for the simple and only purpose of appeasing the raving masses of fan who wants their dating simulator "Dragon Age edition" to cater to their every need. The problem is the objectification of the characters because of it.

 

Bingo, some players DO  have a gay/biphobe problem, but that's not sole reason.

 

This not wanting to offend anyone so lets censors tons of multipurpose words is getting irritating.

[Heimdall]

Keep in mind that in DA2, half of them weren't human. Elves seem to have significantly higher bisexuality rates, judging from what we've seen.

Eh, I wouldn't read into that.  Racially profiling sexual orientation tendencies seems like a slippery slope.

[Xilizhra]

The problem isn't that the characters are bisexuals. The problem is the REASON why they are bisexuals. It isn't done to enhance the character r tell their story, it is done for the simple and only purpose of appeasing the raving masses of fan who wants their dating simulator "Dragon Age edition" to cater to their every need. The problem is the objectification of the characters because of it.

No one has to have a "reason" for being bisexual, anymore than they do straight.

 

 

Eh, I wouldn't read into that.  Racially profiling sexual orientation tendencies seems like a slippery slope.

Why so?

[Veruin]

No one has to have a "reason" for being bisexual, anymore than they do straight.

 

That has nothing to do with what he was saying.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The reason they are WRITTEN as bisexuals.....

[Heimdall]

No one has to have a "reason" for being bisexual, anymore than they do straight.

 

 

Why so?

For starters, encountering three bisexual elves isn't much of a sample size.