60 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRacer]

I, too, would be interested in this.

 

I mean, it won't change my mind on which one to pick as I'll likely gravitate to whichever one I think looks best and "feels" like my Dalish Inquisitor, but it would be really neat to know if what I picked represents Mythral the Protector or Fen'Harel the Dread Wolf, for example.

 

I actually just fired up a new DA:O Dalish playthrough last week just to get some DA to tide me over, and it was sort of sad seeing all the vallaslin choices but having no idea what it would mean to my Warden.

[Johun]

The elf Genitivi encountered had his markings dedicated to a god, but it doesn't necessarily mean that is the case for all of them.

 

It's a nice thing to speculate about, although I think BioWare will ever take an official stance. It would be easier to puzzle out if there were some representations of the Dalish gods that did not share art assets with Tevinter statues and what have you.

[themageguy]

It'd be great if this implemented. Could just say the creators name in the character creation
Nice idea.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Would be interesting to see if my Warden's markings mean something completely different than I thought they did.

[Tora Panthera]

When playing as a dalish in Origins, I tried to line them up with the dalish gods, and from that pick the one that suited my character the most. So I think it'd be great to actually give the markings official meanings.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Since we can play an elf, and the elf is always Dalish, 

Still worst news of Inquisition. 

[In Exile]

There was a link floating around where a fan tried to interpret what writing tied with what god, but there's no official word on this point. 

[ladyoflate]

Still worst news of Inquisition. 

 

I like that you always mention this, since it means I don't have to. et tu, bioware?

[In Exile]

I like that you always mention this, since it means I don't have to. et tu, bioware?

 

It's just a beacon that screams "press like ASAP" to me. 

[In Exile]

Thinking on it further, the tattooing creates another problem with playing a Dalish protagonist: do you have to be religious? Is there a way to separate this form of tattooing from the religious significance associated with the deity? While there is cultural value to the tattoo, could there be an option for a secular one? While posters complain about atheism in Andrastian society, the Dalish seem to have the same problem. 

[In Exile]

A Dalish without their beliefs is pretty much not Dalish. They're just any other elf. "We are the last of the Elvhenan. Keepers of the lost lore." They're very tight knit and put high priority on preserving their culture. And there's so few of them.. so "keeping it real" and "being a true elf" probably gets pounded in their heads even more than usual. If you don't want to do this, you live with the shem and flat ears in their stinking cities

 

That said, there are secular applications to their gods. Very much so. They're not overly mystical or otherworldly. Andruil is the goddess of the hunt. The Way of the Bow is practical. June the God of Craft.. another practical god.

 

Their preservation of their culture isn't the same as active religious belief, though. But you're right that it seems that the Dalish do not divorce the two. 

 

As for there being secular applications... what you're talking about isn't secularism. 

[Solas]

please, i'd love to know

[ladyoflate]

I look at being Dalish like being Jewish: it starts from a religious standpoint, but developed into a culture that does not necessarily mean you are actively religious. City Elves who join the Dalish are always going to be very religious, but that's true of any converts.

[In Exile]

What I mean is that it's worldly wisdom.. that's what I meant by secular. Although it's a very loose definition, I admit.

 

The Way of the Bow: Bend but do not break. Anyone can use this advice.

 

Other than that, everything about their gods is tied to earthly things. Not otherworldy mumbo jumbo or "The Maker works in mysterious ways" kind of religion. It's religious, but down to earth. Even their chief God killed his father (like Zeus killed the Titans), because this previous god scorched the earth and was killing the land and creatures. This mortal realm is given priority.

 

That's still not secular. By definition, secular means "denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis". 

 

Anyways, yeah.. Preservation is the same as their belief. If there is one word to describe the Dalish, it's "loss". It permeates everything about them. So they cherish what little they have. And you can't be a Dalish by simply retaining facts. Their lore is something they live with their whole being. Otherwise, they might as well be Zevran or Fenris.

 

 

 

I disagree with your conclusion. If we accept that being Dalish is about preserving as much about "elvhen" culture as possible, there's no necessary link with adopting some kind of spirituality. There's something fundamentally offensive to me about any culture that has an inherent "purity" test. 

 

I look at being Dalish like being Jewish: it starts from a religious standpoint, but developed into a culture that does not necessarily mean you are actively religious. City Elves who join the Dalish are always going to be very religious, but that's true of any converts

 

Well, without turning this too much into an IRL debate, there's I'm of the view that one can be Jewish without being religious. 

[ladyoflate]

Well, without turning this too much into an IRL debate, there's I'm of the view that one can be Jewish without being religious. 

 

That's what I mean. if you're mom's Jewish, you're culturally Jewish even if you're atheist or something.

 

If you're born Dalish, you're at least culturally Dalish. If you're a city elf, you can become Dalish, but that's more of a religious thing. Like converting to Judaism.

[In Exile]

That's what I mean. if you're mom's Jewish, you're culturally Jewish even if you're atheist or something.

 

If you're born Dalish, you're at least culturally Dalish. If you're a city elf, you can become Dalish, but that's more of a religious thing. Like converting to Judaism.

 

I agree with that. This is one of the reasons I think losing the CE perspective is a big deal: because there are two very distinct elven cultures in Thedas, and one would cannibalize the other. 

[ladyoflate]

I agree with that. This is one of the reasons I think losing the CE perspective is a big deal: because there are two very distinct elven cultures in Thedas, and one would cannibalize the other. 

 

Yeah. And especially with the theme of the Dalish and (I think) all other elves being loss, the city elves represent sort of the ultimate loss. They've lost even what dregs of history the Dalish have.

 

Which does make me think that city elves might be the best way for the elves to move forwards, since the Dalish are always looking back. For the city elves, there's nothing to look back to so. :/

[Nefla]

I really hope they do release a chart online or like a subtitle for each tattoo in game to say which is which and what it means.

[In Exile]

Yeah. And especially with the theme of the Dalish and (I think) all other elves being loss, the city elves represent sort of the ultimate loss. They've lost even what dregs of history the Dalish have.

 

Which does make me think that city elves might be the best way for the elves to move forwards, since the Dalish are always looking back. For the city elves, there's nothing to look back to so. :/

 

I agree with you. To me, freedom for the elves means establishing an elven culture. Certainly the Dalish are free to believe in whatever they like, but simply forcibly absorbing the CEs into the Dalish is to me the same sort of tragedy that happened with the alienages: the imposition of culture on another group by a self-righteous society that sees itself as inherently superior. It's just enslaving the CEs to their so-called betters all over again.  

 

Be offended then. I'm not stopping you. They might be the most inaccessible and militant of all the factions. Even more than the Qunari.

 

Still though, it doesn't change that they don't seperate their culture from their gods. The biggest part of "loss" to them is the loss of their gods. And the biggest victory would be the return of their gods. The biggest part of their lore is their relationship to the Creators. And the only reason for keeping the lore is they hope to make this happen again. They believe they were all literally immortal and conversed with gods. And that it's all the fault of humans for everything being taken away. I'm surprised you just honed in on theism/atheism. Because just about everything the Dalish say is ridiculous, from a certain perspective.

 

I know.    I don't like the Dalish culture very much, even while I relate to their feelings of loss very strongly. It's so weird. I feel for them so much, but once I get to know them I can't tolerate many of their beliefs. 

 

I didn't really key in to the religious significance of their practices because it never seemed tied together for me. I never played a Dalish character, and from the outside the Dalish never tie their culture to their gods, even though their lore is literally about the theft of their gods.