60 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like that you always mention this, since it means I don't have to. et tu, bioware?

 

It's just a beacon that screams "press like ASAP" to me. 

You're welcome.

[ladyoflate]

I agree with you. To me, freedom for the elves means establishing an elven culture. Certainly the Dalish are free to believe in whatever they like, but simply forcibly absorbing the CEs into the Dalish is to me the same sort of tragedy that happened with the alienages: the imposition of culture on another group by a self-righteous society that sees itself as inherently superior. It's just enslaving the CEs to their so-called betters all over again.  

 

I almost wonder if a good setup for an elven nation would be, well, city elves in cities and the Dalish keeping their cultural role of keeping the knowledge and stuff, but like welcomed into the cities and having storytelling festivals on certain days and stuff.

 

But each city is constructed around a main vhenadahl, with each residential district also having their own unique one, and a similar set-up for leaders.

 

That way they become united without swallowing each other whole, and you can decide to join the Dalish or settle down much more freely.

[In Exile]

I almost wonder if a good setup for an elven nation would be, well, city elves in cities and the Dalish keeping their cultural role of keeping the knowledge and stuff, but like welcomed into the cities and having storytelling festivals on certain days and stuff.

 

But each city is constructed around a main vhenadahl, with each residential district also having their own unique one, and a similar set-up for leaders.

 

That way they become united without swallowing each other whole, and you can decide to join the Dalish or settle down much more freely.

 

That's certainly a workable compromise, but I'm just not sure if the Dalish would actually accept that. Would they be alright with a Chantry, for example? Would they accept elves who don't want to worship their creators or the maker? Would they accept elves who don't want to tattoo their faces in their own blood? 

 

I think that this is the sort of idea that would require the Dalish to give ground which we've seen them generally be unwilling to give (at least given the indication in the lore that they look down on CEs). 

[In Exile]

If you get time, try a Dalish warden. I didn't like the Dalish when I first played, but they grew on me.

 

Who I currently don't like at all is Qunari, but maybe DAI will change that.

 

There's nothing I'm more excited about in DA:I than getting to play a qunari (the race) without adhering to the qun itself. 

[ladyoflate]

That's certainly a workable compromise, but I'm just not sure if the Dalish would actually accept that. Would they be alright with a Chantry, for example? Would they accept elves who don't want to worship their creators or the maker? Would they accept elves who don't want to tattoo their faces in their own blood? 

 

I think that this is the sort of idea that would require the Dalish to give ground which we've seen them generally be unwilling to give (at least given the indication in the lore that they look down on CEs). 

 

This is true, but that's exactly the sort of ground that the Dalish would have to give up for any sort of nation where they didn't just absorb the City Elves, and the City Elves are not going to want to be absorbed. (else everyone who knew for sure about the Dalish would try running at least once)

 

It's something they'd certainly have to negotiate for a long time, and obviously national leaders could not be exclusively one or the other.

 

I have a feelings the first agreement they'd come to in initial negotiations would be restricted border access for shems, tho.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Personally, I see the Dalish and City Elf culture having become too distant for them to be able to unify as one culture again. That's like expected two of the human nations to become one culture.

[ladyoflate]

Personally, I see the Dalish and City Elf culture having become too distant for them to be able to unify as one culture again. That's like expected two of the human nations to become one culture.

 

True, but a girl can dream. I just find cultural roles like the Dalish would have in contrast to the larger population fascinating.

 

Which is perhaps an overly narrow superlative, but there you go.

[In Exile]

This is true, but that's exactly the sort of ground that the Dalish would have to give up for any sort of nation where they didn't just absorb the City Elves, and the City Elves are not going to want to be absorbed. (else everyone who knew for sure about the Dalish would try running at least once)

 

It's something they'd certainly have to negotiate for a long time, and obviously national leaders could not be exclusively one or the other.

 

I have a feelings the first agreement they'd come to in initial negotiations would be restricted border access for shems, tho.

 

Well, the Dalish apparently scare their children with stories of humans, so that'll go over well. 

 

Personally, I see the Dalish and City Elf culture having become too distant for them to be able to unify as one culture again. That's like expected two of the human nations to become one culture.

 

While I agree with you on the conclusion, I think that the elves are a small enough group in Thedas that they don't have very much choice but to try and co-exist if they want to obtain their own land entirely, versus just trying to institute a civil rights movement in countries like Ferelden or Orlais. 

[In Exile]

You got it reversed. It's the humans and city elves who get scared, and think Dalish are bandits. Dalish are just taught to resent humans. And if they can get away with it, possibly shoot them on sight. Even in the Dalish origin, the Elder is no different than Tamlen, and says they shot first in a battle against some Fereldens (the Clayne tribes). He's proud of "shooting first". And Marethari is pretty nonchalant about being able to wipe out a whole town, if she wanted to.

 

It's just recently that a group tried to sack Orlais, of all things.

No, I don't. Merrill outright says to Hawke that Dalish scare children with their stories of humans. There's a difference between the kind of racism used to tell your children that humans are bad out there and people should be afraid of them, and being willing to "shoot first" in a conflict against them. We have lots of IRL examples of groups both using another group different from them as a bogeyman to be fear and at the same time advocating (and engaging in) attempts to kill them all. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Still worst news of Inquisition. 

 

Seriously, It's been months, you can let it go.

[In Exile]

 

Merrill is scared of everything. Except muggings.

 

This early promo poster pretty much sums up the Dalish. http://images2.fanpo...4-1600-1200.jpg

 

That is pretty much how DAO's origin starts. And how it continues with both Velanna and Ariane in the DLCs.

 

Merrill is a unique personality, but as a First she's not ignorant of what Dalish do - she's just got her idiosyncratic way of expressing it. 

 

 

Btw, they never quite get into the details of the Clayne (or any other specific Ferelden clans), but I imagine many are ash warriors. Considering how the Ash warriors treat elves at Ostagar, there might be some bad blood between the two groups. Master Ilen called them barbarians without any honor, and thus deserved to be shot. It isn't fear. It's simple contempt.

 

 

 

Again, I don't want to go via IRL parallels, but the racism inherent in saying "we tell our children to be afraid of these people in the night" is not the same as fear in the way you're thinking about in this (and your last few) posts. 

[ladyoflate]

Seriously, It's been months, you can let it go.

 

how dare u

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Seriously, It's been months, you can let it go.

No, I don't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

True, but a girl can dream. I just find cultural roles like the Dalish would have in contrast to the larger population fascinating.

 

Which is perhaps an overly narrow superlative, but there you go.

They still have that. A nation is not a plot of land but a group of people. 

 

 

Probably right. I think Fenris, Merrill, and Tallis represent just how different they've become.

Exactly. 

 

While I agree with you on the conclusion, I think that the elves are a small enough group in Thedas that they don't have very much choice but to try and co-exist if they want to obtain their own land entirely, versus just trying to institute a civil rights movement in countries like Ferelden or Orlais. 

I think the latter is more achievable. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

No, I don't.

 

You really don't think it would get annoying if the situation was reversed and I complained over and over at every opportunity about the lack of a Dalish PC? Even if it was off topict?

 

The irony is when multiple races were announced I actually assumed for whatever reason that elf PCs would be exclusively city elves. It didn't bother me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You don't think it would get annoying if the situation was reversed and I complained over and over at every opportunity about the lack of a Dalish PC even when it was off topic?

 

The irony is when multiple races were announced I actually assumed for whatever reason that elf PCs would be city elves. It didn't bother me.

No, I wouldn't get annoyed actually. 

[PunchySporkk]

This is something I've actually been thinking about a lot since it was revealed that we'd have to be Dalish to play an elf.  I don't feel connected to their culture.  They're too alien, and I don't know enough.  This makes me not want to play them.  I've read what's there, but they really know so little about themselves, and most of the lore seems to be about what they have relearned (or tried to) about the ancient elves.  I would love to know more about the Dalish themselves.  I want to know about their lives, about their tattoos, anything.  I would like to be able to get into the mindset of the Dalish before playing as one, and right now all the info I've got is pretty negative (to me).  

[In Exile]

I want to play one for exactly these reasons. Part of all the games was discovery.. Especially DAO, I think. You uncovered quite a few mysteries. Eluvian, Arcane Warrior spec, etc.. In addition to outsider mysteries. The Ashes, the Anvil. And since DAI is going to be a bigger world, I'm hoping a lot of exploration is back. It might be really fun for an elf. Especially a "First"/Keeper/Keeper's apprentice.

 

To me the Dalish aren't about discovery, but about slanting that discovery through a particular lens. It's not about a critical look at their past, but rather about confirming that their current beliefs are true. Marethari vs. Merril when it comes to the Eluvian are a good illustration of that: neither take the Eluvian at face value - each want it to be a symbol of what they think elven culture used to be in the idealized past. Marethari thinks she can somehow divine the intention of the old elves in shutting down the Eluvian network (it was dangerous), and Merril thinks the recovery of one will somehow substantively change Dalish self-perception, if only she could just get it working (which, of course, makes no sense - recovering the technical know-how isn't recovering the cultural significance or role).