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[CaveGnome]

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-> CaveGnome Posted at 11:06 AM on 2013-11-08

Hello all,

I am making a module with the new Spelljammer CCC pack and have issues...

- First glitch:
With Nwn+SoU+Hou patched to 1.69 and latest CCC pack (with neogi update). Hacks added to a module in following order: sj_common, sj_creatures, sj_placeables, sj_portraits, sj_tileset.

When i use the button "Report Resources and conflicts" i got this:

"Conflicting Resources" between sj_common and sj_creatures:
arrow, base, batskin, boat1, boat2, boat3, bottomfromtyleg, bottomrearleg, dnaught, Dshipskin and 20 more items!

- Second:
I am trying to make new scripts to polymorph / depolymorph the PC (embark / disembark) in one of the new SJboats, with the new polymorph number scheme (Tradesman = 151, Caravel = 152, Galleon = 153, Clipper = 154, Hammership = 155, etc.). For now, it results in the PC disapearing and freezing the game or transforming in a "Curst Swordsman". Note that the same script works perfectly with the old ArcaneSpace 1.0 and ArcaneSpace 1.5. I don't know if it is normal, but the polymorph name constants (POLYMORPH_TYPE_TRADESMAN...) don't appear in my "Constants" panel in the script editor.

Speaking of "sj_creatures.hak", i opened it with NWN Explorer 1.63 and looked the SJ ships polymorphs. There i noted some strange things happening (or so do i think with my noob's hak editing skills :-) First, the file is not in incremental order and the new SJ boats part is strange: (159, 162, 161, 163, 160, 165, 168, 169, 166, 167, 168, 169, 164, 171)

There are 2 duplicates (168 and 169) and missing numbers (no 170, 200 and 204 entrys) and i noted there was a lot of tabulations. My understanding is that file padding is only to be done with spaces but i could be wrong as i am just learning to use Nwn haks.

- Third:
If i want to create a new custom creature, using the "Construct" Racial type in the creature wizard, i get the message "The selected model does not exist. Please choose another one". As you can guess, this option works if i load a module without the SJ CCC pack. How can i fix this ?

Well, perhaps there is a more advanced CCC SJ pack comming soon... Or can i edit the thing and create the missing data to cure my summoning ship problem ? I suppose if i do this, i need to edit other hacks to maintain coherence. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

CG

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Rolo Kipp Posted at 07:29 PM on 2013-11-08

Ugg. That's all on my table, I think :-P
I never did get around to the polymorph 2da, so it's likely all wonky.
The conflicts you mentioned are almost certainly duplicate texture maps. They were originally in the creature hak, but are also needed for placeable ships, so I copied them to common. Never cleaned out the duplicates in creatures.
The missing model in constructs (I believe) points to one of the project Q appearances. Either include the Q haks or ignore that the first model (a golem I believe) is missing and scroll down the drop list to the SJ models.
If it is an SJ model missing, then we (I) need to fix that ASAP.
I'll look at the polymorph 2da after I finish the Tom Baker scarf for the CCC, unless someone else wants to clean up that mess :-P

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-> CaveGnome Posted at 04:39 PM on 2013-11-12

i don't use project Q hak, this could explain the "Construct" problem. i will try to clean the haks, but i feel like a clumsy elephant in a porcelain shop when i edit hacks and tend to break things more often than mend them ;-)

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 04:26 PM on 2013-11-13

There are no duplicates in polymorph.2da and it can't conflict with anything Q related as Q doesn't use it. Just for good measure I checked placeables.2da. The only thing I noticed was that there were tabs used instead of spaces. I have had a problem arise because of tabs instead of spaces a long time ago so I have converted them while examining it in npp. I'll check the textures and remove any duplicates I find.

TR

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 06:16 PM on 2013-11-13

Removed the 8 duplicate textures from sj_creatures.hak and uploaded it to dropbox.

TR

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-> CaveGnome Posted at 12:05 AM on 2013-11-14

@Tarot Redhand

Good... We will need to make consolidated 2da files as i more or less corrected the polymorph order and other little things in my polymorph.2da version. I am making progress with embark / disembark a ship (in fact, i am sort of trying to port the SpaceArcane v1.0 demo mod to our last ArcaneSpace version).

I was not speaking of real (entire lines) duplicates but Id number duplicates (you have 2 X 168 and 2 X 169 entrys for ex. and this is no good as individual Id are needed to invoke polymorph form).
Not resolved the "construct" problem for now, but this is just a minor annoyance.

Other little improvements we could do:
- The Mindspider ship is not on the same scale as other ships (very tiny). So, we need to make it a little bigger or reduce other boats in proportion.

- Lack of aerial monsters: Giant eagles, Griffons, Rocs, Vultures, etc. from the v1.0 didn't make it to v2.0. I know. They are no good looking compared to recent CC stuff but we lack air flying monsters for the atmosphere tileset. Some specific beasts like a Zard or Gullion would indeed be much better...

Playing with the Squid ship (love it! i noted a strange behaviour. After returning from a travel in the atmosphere, some sort of spherical field force appeared, protecting only the command bridge. Graphic glitch or ???

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 02:18 AM on 2013-11-14

Having now checked with the report conflicts button it appears that there are a number of textures with the same name but not necessarily the same content. I used WinMerge to do a binary compare between the entire contents (exported to separate folders) of the common and creatures haks which now shows no conflicts while the conflict report shows a large number of texture files (check the gallery associated with this group, I have uploaded a picture showing the conflicts). I wonder if Rolo improved some textures as well as moving them?

Re Mindspider vs Deathspider. Deathspider = 175ftx50ft, Mindspider = 40ftx15ft in the original spelljammer boxed set. I think that they are both built to scale in our haks.

TR

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 04:53 AM on 2013-11-14

OK having gone through all the haks replacing tabs with spaces where necessary, I think I've found a broken 2da file. Lines 10001 to 10003 of portraits.2da looks weird -

9996 **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** ****
PLACEABLES **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** ****
10000 pcs_b01_ 4 **** 1 **** ****

The question is, should it be like this or can I correct it?

TR

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 04:54 AM on 2013-11-14

Oh goody, damn thing removed all the spaces, etc - look in the actual 2da to see what I am talking about.

TR

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-> Rolo Kipp Posted at 10:03 AM on 2013-11-14

I did modify some textures, but I believe I renamed all the ones I changed. Not positive about that. Was a fast and furious month.

I'm still a bit to busy to dig back into this, but it's coming soon (2 weeks, perhaps?).

Re portraits 10001-3: That is a Q-style label to set off portraits for placeables. What matters is having the same number of columns in the 2DA, but we can space them differently on some lines to make it easy to find sections within the 2DA. See also 2001-2003.

As I took them directly from Q for the compatibility, there are still tabs in there (reduces filesize). Personally, I use spaces anyway, but it shouldn't cause problems.

The missing models in the Q-compatible 2DAs should just be ignored. If you alter/clean out the 2DAs, then they are no longer Q-compatible. If you just ignore the missing models, then you always have the option of upgrading to Q later. They do not affect play in the least.

Flying creatures: I didn't feel the quality was there and I didn't feel they were specific to Spelljammer. However, I do like the vulture ;-)

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 11:37 AM on 2013-11-14

The trouble is that 2 of those lines lose a column. As I understand it, nwn first removes any whitespace before processing a line. So lines 10001 and 10003 end up with only 5 columns (because nwn ignores the line number column, which is only there for human reference most of the time) of usable data. At the very least, this is naughty and throws error checking utils into a frenzy and at worst can cause problems for nwn itself. I am definitely not a happy bunny with leaving something in not because it is right but because we can get away with it.

Shouldn't the word PLACEABLES have a "#" in front of it to indicate that it is a comment in the file?

TR

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-> Rolo Kipp Posted at 12:35 PM on 2013-11-14

Damned if they don't! Heh.

I see what you are saying, Try it with another **** column on the pre- post- rows.

The label shouldn't have a hash unless you do it for all three lines, my opinion. But I don't know how NwN handles comments after the start of the table.

Experiment? :-)

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-> Tarot Redhand Posted at 03:16 PM on 2013-11-14

To be honest I don't see that compatibility with Q would be lost because we didn't emulate their style. I would rather remove those "comments" altogether, remove the tabs and add line numbers to line it up properly. After all we can always add the comments to the end of the line anyway as an experiment.

TR

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-> CaveGnome Posted at 11:34 PM on 2013-11-21

I made my own polyphorm.2da using your input (thanks for the help). As i was tinkering with the polymorphs, made new ship portraits for some ships where the model was not the same and for others vessels where the portrait pic was poor (will try to upload to the gallery). On the script front, my embark/disembark scripts is sort of working now. And yeah, you were right, the Mindspider is tiny... And more or less to scale !

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CaveGnome Posted at 05:39 AM on 2013-12-06

The glitch hunt continues :-p

- Some of the ship models lack a bottom. this is a little annoying. For exemple if we used a "unlimited" hacked vision camera and want to look the ship in flight from under. Or, when moving at sea with vessels sporting bridge openings (caravel grate ?) you can view a strange effect: the water flowing under the boat's keel.

- The placeables and creatures (polymorphs) ships are not on the same horizontal level, the problem is i need to switch from placeable to creature or the oposite way and this problem forbids a smooth transition. The placeable vessels fly above water (or space) and the creature vessels are a little too much sinked in water (or below in space). Is this controlled in a 2da file ?

Edit: ships that don't use the same horizontal level in creature and placeable form (may y suggest we use creature walking level for everybody):

- dreadnought, dwarven citadel, eel, lamprey, manowar, mantis, mindspider, nautiloid, tradesman, warbird, wasp, batship.

CG


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