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[Grieving Natashina]

The Argument for that i most often encounter?

 

"Well those people CAN and i stress the word "CAN" elevate themselves above their station, never mind about mages being able to do the same, its an equally rare occurrence.

 

But you have Elven Templars, You can Have Wealthy Elves, You have Peasants that are knighted and become freeholders, And you have Casteless become Paragons.

 

Point being Thedas is a Feudalistic place and its measurement on the rights of the Individuals is fairly small.

I'm not debating, but do you have any examples of the bolded statement above?  Names?  Or is that just a passing mention in the EU?

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, now a good portion of their former watchers have gone rogue and started burning down villages while being clearly tainted by magic themselves, so who knows what they'll think between those two sides?

 

Probably that both are bastards. Templars will have to be burning more villages than mages for it to push the mages into the 'better' category.

 

 

 

I also wouldn't say that mages are the One Percent any more than I'd say that they're chattel slaves, because their situation isn't directly comparable to anyone IRL. The fact remains that mages are the underdog against a society that has far too much of its power structure invested in despising them, and that your and others' economic comparisons appear to be grounded in part in falsehood. I don't see why you can't just say that the people don't care about equal rights; their treatment of elves certainly drives that home well enough.

 

 

The biggest difference from the 1% is the political disenfranchisement. In terms of overall security and material advantage, mages are definitely at the top, in some respects even above the dangers of politics by virtue of being apolitical in the Circle system. Mages live in a restrictive but largely stable and high-functioning police state with significant liberties we wouldn't find in a real world police state. Most mundanes don't even get the 'stable and high-functioning' deal.

 

Mages aren't really an underdog. They're a big dog that's been leashed: powerful but constrained to the point of being beatable, rather than being naturally weak. Their subjugation was a matter of better organization by the weaker mundanes: had they been organized when the circles were being started, the mages wouldn't have been subjugated in the first place.

 

 

 

And... I do say that the people of Thedas don't care about equal rights. Quite frequently. I've even regularly pointed out that they have no ideological or philosophical basis for it being a common position. I've said it so many times I worry I'm becoming repetitive.

 

If mages want people to buy into the idea that mages deserve rights like everyone else, they're going to need to establish common cause and help other people have those rights first. As it is, the mages are interested in mage rights, and leaving everyone else without.

 

How have you not noticed this yet?

[Sir DeLoria]

I sincerely hope Anders stays dead in Inquisition after handing him over to the Templars in Awakening already did no good.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not debating, but do you have any examples of the bolded statement above?  Names?  Or is that just a passing mention in the EU?

Evangeline was almost going to be an Elven Templar to show that, but Gaider decided against it and made her human.

[Shadow Fox]

Evangeline was almost going to be an Elven Templar to show that, but Gaider decided against it and made her human.

You mean I lost out on a good female Elf/Human male romance?!  ...CURSE YOU DAVID GAIDER!CURSE YOUUUUUUUUU!!!

[pallascedar]

I see that.  BUT, Meredith and the Templars are supposed to be what Elthina can use to enforce her decisions.  If Meredith tells Elthina to take a hike what exactly can she do?

 

I know the Seekers exist...  but it still seems like Elthina is a character stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I just don't really think she was in that much of a hard place. I just felt like there was so much Elthina could have done. She could have fired Meredith, yeah she'd run the risk of some Templars revolting, but I really doubt the majority of Templars would've have followed Meredith against the Grand Cleric. She could've involved herself more in the Tranquil Solution debacle. She could've insisted that Orsino give Meredith more access to the tower. She could've chosen a new viscount to fill at least some of the power vacuum.

 

I realize Elthina was in a hard place, but she responded to every tough situation with inaction. It clearly didn't work out too well for her.

[Grieving Natashina]

So...no confirmed examples then?  Just a character that would have been an elf, but Gaider changed his mind?

 

Now I really want to know if an elf Templar does exist currently in Thedas.  That would make for a very interesting perspective.

[Master Warder Z_]

Now I really want to know if an elf Templar does exist currently in Thedas.  That would make for a very interesting perspective.

 

It's said they do, just a rarity.

 

Perhaps a few will be present in DAI.

[AresKeith]

So...no confirmed examples then?  Just a character that would have been an elf, but Gaider changed his mind?

 

Now I really want to know if an elf Templar does exist currently in Thedas.  That would make for a very interesting perspective.

 

Well there's no law banning elves from joining the Templars, so the chances of it is possible

[Grieving Natashina]

Well there's no law banning elves from joining the Templars, so the chances of it is possible

I'm not normally one to make "I want this companion!" type threads, but it sure is tempting here.  I'd love to meet an elven Templar on my travels and learn their views.

 

Warning: TKS may be coming in here soon to talk about Anders.   The two of us took a thread offtopic, so I asked him to come in here.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I move my post to proper topic

 

 

Dude, he was almost two different guys.   He didn't have as many of those "traits" that you were talking about.  Remember Awakening, if kept Wynne alive and brought Anders with you?  She talks about the mages that want to leave the Circle and Anders says, "That's a recipe for disaster!"  The only "traits" that he had that even suggested that he was going to blow up a sodding church was his inability to stay in the Circle.

 

Why don't we drop the Anders subject or take it into the active Anders thread?  This is getting way off topic.

 

Was he or wasn't he? sure justice/vengance strengthened those characteristics but as i said he was stupid and reckless to merge with spirit pretty much shows that he was dangerous from the beginning and in every case before he never managed to screw something up and as most mages eventually they do and that cost a lot.

 

As i said he was stupid ,rebelious and reckless and mage that lead to merging with spirit and later to disaster.

 

 

 

No I know what he did (and that is the 8) but that doesn't warrent killing Anders from Origens or Awakining.

What Anders did in the first 7 attemts was harmless, if you are locked in a tower cut of from the rest of the world, but reading about it ... wouldn't you like to experiance what it is to be free? Even thou he knows he will be caught and punished he takes that risk. And to be fair to that Anders he never hurt anyone.

 

You can't punish a person for something he has't done yet, which was my point. If you do that has nothing to with any law or justis system.

 

Well i would like but if i want get my freedom i would do that in smart way crap even jowan managed to escape and if you help him a little he managed escape for good. And nope it wasn't harmless it ended without causing harm due to luck 8 time wasn't so lucky.Yeah he just merged with spirit and blow up chantry. 

 

justice exists only in your head and every person have own version and he should be punished for that it would end much better. Pretty much anders is walking prove why circles don't work.

[Inprea]

I just don't really think she was in that much of a hard place. I just felt like there was so much Elthina could have done. She could have fired Meredith, yeah she'd run the risk of some Templars revolting, but I really doubt the majority of Templars would've have followed Meredith against the Grand Cleric. She could've involved herself more in the Tranquil Solution debacle. She could've insisted that Orsino give Meredith more access to the tower. She could've chosen a new viscount to fill at least some of the power vacuum.

 

I realize Elthina was in a hard place, but she responded to every tough situation with inaction. It clearly didn't work out too well for her.

 

Personally I believe she should have set herself up in the tower so she could see what's going on. It's harder to miss behave when grandma is setting in the room a few doors down. With how she kept her distance it felt to me she was being intentionally blind. Out of site out of mind.

[AresKeith]

I'm not normally one to make "I want this companion!" type threads, but it sure is tempting here.  I'd love to meet an elven Templar on my travels and learn their views.

 

That'll make some interesting companion dialogue 

[Grieving Natashina]

That'll make some interesting companion dialogue 

Wouldn't it though?  Shoot, that idea sounds far more interesting to me than Anders coming back.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not normally one to make "I want this companion!" type threads, but it sure is tempting here.  I'd love to meet an elven Templar on my travels and learn their views.

Imagine talking to an Elven Templar while playing as a Dalish Mage. Not only is there the Mage vs Templar thing, but also City Elf vs Dalish Elf. 

[Master Warder Z_]

That'll make some interesting companion dialogue 

 

Elven Templar: Magic is a curse in Thedas!

 

Dalish Mage: .... **** off flat ear!

 

ET: Oi! Least i live in a civilized society! Not scrounging about like berry pickers in the woods!

 

DM: Yeah well at least my people are free!

 

ET: Well at least my people accept reality!

 

Yup this could indeed prove interesting.

[Master Warder Z_]

Imagine talking to an Elven Templar while playing as a Dalish Mage. Not only is there the Mage vs Templar thing, but also City Elf vs Dalish Elf. 

 

I just did that scenario!

 

Spooky! 

[Grieving Natashina]

<mumbles>  Stupid thread, using up all my likes.  

 

Anyone want to start a thread about seeing an elven templar?  I don't want to get this too far off-track from the Anders hate/Anders love that's going on in here.

[Divine Justinia V]

Was he or wasn't he? sure justice/vengance strengthened those characteristics but as i said he was stupid and reckless to merge with spirit pretty much shows that he was dangerous

 

 

So is it the same case for Wynne?

[TK514]

So is it the same case for Wynne?

Wynne wasn't given the choice, as I recall. She was effectively dead when the spirit came in and set up house, keeping her around to run the place.

[AresKeith]

<mumbles>  Stupid thread, using up all my likes.  

 

Anyone want to start a thread about seeing an elven templar?  I don't want to get this too far off-track from the Anders hate/Anders love that's going on in here.

 

Do Ettt

[TheKomandorShepard]

So is it the same case for Wynne?

Yep in wynne case as well but well she didn't chose to merge with spirit and was more balanced but asunder proves that she is as dangerous if not more than anders.

[Master Warder Z_]

Do Ettt

 

Did so  

[Divine Justinia V]

Wynne wasn't given the choice, as I recall. She was effectively dead when the spirit came in and set up house, keeping her around to run the place.

 

True, but I just wonder if people look at her the same as him? Granted, he couldn't handle it, but is she still an abomination? Or is it different?

[Divine Justinia V]

Yep in wynne case as well but well she didn't chose to merge with spirit and was more balanced but asunder proves that she is as dangerous if not more than anders.

 

How so?

This, I'm dying to hear.