147 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

There's not a clear implication- there's a scoff and a non-committal rebuttal that would apply regardless of whether Alistair is wanted to or not. It is intent neutral: Anders's comment is no more indicative of Alistair's intent than Fenris's. All Anders' comment expresses is his own view.
 

 

The comment Anders makes is towards the idea that Alistair considers trying to take over the circle. I don't see how its neutral. Don't forget we are talking about Templars, a faction who disbanded college of Enchanters and tightened everything when mages considered the idea of an autonomous circle. How do you think they will react to this? Alistair is slightly pro-mage, not neutral. 

 

We should face it, mages are much more useful than Templars especially to a nation as whole.

[TheKomandorShepard]

David Gaider said that, "the most important thing to know about Anora is that she is her father's daughter." Loghain promised to free the circle from Templars for his own gains. 

 

Perhaps still i see anora as more pragmatic and will support side that gives her more benefit and lest be honest abomnations are little benefit and mages can't win even battle so they are useless outside healing (and not every mage can heal) and then ferelden will make angry army of well-trained and well-equipped elite soldiers and many peoples don't like mages not only pesant's that don't count but also nobles... so i can easily see her supporting templars...

[MisterJB]

Anders is saying that he wants Alistair to try. That is entirely irrelevant to Alistair's own feelings in the matter which are neutral.

 

Mages are much more dangerous to a nation as a whole.

A smart ruler may attempt to use them but will also understand that the Circle and Templars are necessary or he will soon see his nation being controlled by mages.

[Lulupab]

Anders is saying that he wants Alistair to try. That is entirely irrelevant to Alistair's own feelings in the matter which are neutral.
 
Mages are much more dangerous to a nation as a whole.
A smart ruler may attempt to use them but will also understand that the Circle and Templars are necessary or he will soon see his nation being controlled by mages.

Yes Anders is saying that but the idea is already in Alistair's head, its merely an encouragement. Someone who considers taking over the circle from chantry is at least slightly pro-mage. Remember its the exact thing Fiona wanted, is fiona neutral, obviously no. Only the scale of wanting it is different, the idea is the same.

 

You assume all mages want to control the mundane nations which is entirely false. The mages rebelled to have autonomous circle aka separation from Chantry they did not rebel to create Tevinter.

 

Mages are just more useful than templars in general and in every aspect. Templars are only capable of fighting mages better than mundanes and that is it. Fereldan already has Soldiers, they don't need more soldiers.

 

Mages can heal wounds, close possible veil tears, fight other mages if need be as good as Templars if not better, and are much better than Templars when it comes to being an asset to an army. Also their numbers are fewer yet they are more useful, less resources spent on them and more gains.

 

The history has shown us mages are vital. Grey Wardens absolutely need them. The fate of Thedas was decided because of them when all circles joined to help fight Qunari etc...

[AresKeith]

The comment Anders makes is towards the idea that Alistair considers trying to take over the circle. I don't see how its neutral. Don't forget we are talking about Templars, a faction who disbanded college of Enchanters and tightened everything when mages considered the idea of an autonomous circle. How do you think they will react to this? Alistair is slightly pro-mage, not neutral. 
 
We should face it, mages are much more useful than Templars especially to a nation as whole.

Or you're letting your bias misinterpret a line

[Dean_the_Young]

The comment Anders makes is towards the idea that Alistair considers trying to take over the circle. I don't see how its neutral.

 

You're using circular logic- that Anders comment is proof that Alistair considers taking over the circle because Anders comments.

[Lulupab]

Or you're letting your bias misinterpret a line

 

Same can be said about you. The fact remains Alistair actually considers it, maybe its a dilemma but its there. Someone having this idea in his head is not neutral.

[Veruin]

Same can be said about you. The fact remains Alistair actually considers it, maybe its a dilemma but its there. Someone having this idea in his head is not neutral.

By this logic, anytime I have a thought to slap the the guy in front of me, I'm a violent person.

[Lulupab]

By this logic, anytime I have a thought to slap the the guy in front of me, I'm a violent person.

 

You are not a king and being violent is not choosing a faction. Way to discredit yourself Veruin.

 

The logic you fail to understand is, If you have a thought about siding with mages then you are slightly leaning towards being a pro-mage.

[MisterJB]

Yes Anders is saying that but the idea is already in Alistair's head, its merely an encouragement. Someone who considers taking over the circle from chantry is at least slightly pro-mage. Remember its the exact thing Fiona wanted, is fiona neutral, obviously no. Only the scale of wanting it is different, the idea is the same.

No, you're the one who wants things to be in that manner and are twisting that conversation in every way possible to make it so.

He did not even onc egave the indication that he considered taking over the Circle.

 

You assume all mages want to control the mundane nations which is entirely false. The mages rebelled to have autonomous circle aka separation from Chantry they did not rebel to create Tevinter.

 

No, I understand that society is competitive and that the advantages magic grants allow those who possess it to place themselves above those who do not.

Tevinter has nothing to do with it except as an example of this.

[AresKeith]

You are not a king and being violent is not choosing a faction. Way to discredit yourself Veruin.
 
The logic you fail to understand is, If you have a thought about siding with mages then you are slightly leaning towards being a pro-mage.

That is such faulty logic

[Veruin]

You are not a king and being violent is not choosing a faction. Way to discredit yourself Veruin.

 

The logic you fail to understand is, If you have a thought about siding with mages then you are slightly leaning towards being a pro-mage.

I don't see why being a king would change how alignments work.

 

Which falls into the logic of, "If you think of X, then you are leaning towards X."

[Lulupab]

No, you're the one who wants things to be in that manner and are twisting that conversation in every way possible to make it so.
He did not even onc egave the indication that he considered taking over the Circle.

Hawke asks alistiar a question "Aren't you king? why don't you kick them out? and he says "Ha! easier said than done". Now English is my 3rd language by this is how I understand it:

A: Why don't you become a doctor, you are the ruler of your own life.
B: Ha easier said than done

It seems B wants to become a doctor but its either hard or there are obstacles in the way. That Answer clearly means he wants to. I'm not twisting anything, you are refusing to see it.
 

No, I understand that society is competitive and that the advantages magic grants allow those who possess it to place themselves above those who do not.
Tevinter has nothing to do with it except as an example of this.

Except choosing to help mages does not mean you are allowing to come and live in your city. Its a war and you are aiding each other. The goal of your victory is autonomous circles.
  
 
 

That is such faulty logic

 
 Explained below
 

I don't see why being a king would change how alignments work.
 
Which falls into the logic of, "If you think of X, then you are leaning towards X."

 
That is wrong Veruin, The logic is if you have a dilemma about two factions and actually have thoughts of helping one of them then yes you are slightly on their side. Stop twisting it.
 
Many people never wanted the American civil war yet most of them participated. When war comes to your doorstep and it has in DA you will have to choose and when you do you will choose the faction you think is right, even if slightly. Neutral doesn't work, just look at what happened to "neutral" countries in the word wards. The best thing that happened to them was they were plundered and became battle grounds for resources. All have to choose and Alistair is showing favor to mages.

[AresKeith]

It would be stupid of the ruler of Ferelden to get involved when

1. They are still rebuilding as the devs themselves already
2. The veil tear happens

So once again you're using a bias view and misinterpreting

[Lulupab]

It would be stupid of the ruler of Ferelden to get involved when

1. They are still rebuilding as the devs themselves already
2. The veil tear happens

So once again you're using a bias view and misinterpreting

 

The mages can help as they always have in emergencies. They can close the tears and help rebuild especially the mages from Fereldan itself. Would Fereldan rather be invaded by another nation? Each faction will choose a side, sooner or later. 

 

The reasons you mentioned doesn't justifying not choosing a side at all. More than ten years has passed since Fereldan blight.

[AresKeith]

The reasons you mentioned doesn't justifying not choosing a side at all. More than ten years has passed since Fereldan blight.

And yet the devs still say they're rebuilding, I tend to take their word for it

[Veruin]

The mages can help as they always have in emergencies. They can close the tears and help rebuild especially the mages from Fereldan itself. Would Fereldan rather be invaded by another nation? Each faction will choose a side, sooner or later. 

 

The reasons you mentioned doesn't justifying not choosing a side at all. More than ten years has passed since Fereldan blight.

Do tell me how you can replace a population within 10 years?

 

Or clear Blight infested lands?

 

Basically, doing the morally right thing should supersede all logic and practicality in your eyes.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Do tell me how you can replace a population within 10 years?

 

Or clear Blight infested lands?

 

Basically, doing the morally right thing should supersede all logic and practicality in your eyes.

 

Well do i have mention that we are talking about alistair?

[Veruin]

Well do i have mention that we are talking about alistair?

Alistair can be slow, but he's not stupid.  Well, not THAT stupid.

[renfrees]

The vibe i've got out of that conversation, that even if Alistair considers intervening between Circle and the Chantry, he'll let it pass until he's dealt with more pressing matters, like post-Blight and Orlais. He's not going to make any open moves until everything is quiet within his borders.

[Lulupab]

Do tell me how you can replace a population within 10 years?

 

Or clear Blight infested lands?

 

Basically, doing the morally right thing should supersede all logic and practicality in your eyes.

 

Don't you think the bold part explains the characteristics of Alistair? Well in his eyes anyway.

 

If Alistair is king its likely he will choose to help mages. Which was the argument in the first place. This is not even what I think or my views.

[Master Warder Z_]

Don't you think the bold part explains the characteristics of Alistair? Well in his eyes anyway.

 

If Alistair is king its likely he will choose to help mages. Which was the argument in the first place. This is not even what I think or my views.

 

Based on speculation and circular reasoning  you yourself present.

 

It's not much an argument.

 

Not to mention the whole Bannorn has connections to the Templar thing again, risking civil war to help the robes doesn't strike me as something Alistair would do. Add in rebuilding and repairing the damage from the Blight and Civil war and Neutrality is about the only outcome.

[LobselVith8]

The comment Anders makes is towards the idea that Alistair considers trying to take over the circle. I don't see how its neutral. Don't forget we are talking about Templars, a faction who disbanded college of Enchanters and tightened everything when mages considered the idea of an autonomous circle. How do you think they will react to this? Alistair is slightly pro-mage, not neutral.

We should face it, mages are much more useful than Templars especially to a nation as whole.

Both Queen Anora and King Alistair declare that the mages will be free of templar oversight in the US Ending for the Hero of Ferelden, and both rulers decree that the mages have earned the right to govern themselves when the Hero of Ferelden asks for his people to be freed from the Chantry.

I think Lambert's defection from the Chantry could allow the crown of Ferelden to fulfill it's promise of an autonomous Circle, especially if the Inquisition supports the mages.

[Lulupab]

Based on speculation and circular reasoning  you yourself present.

 

It's not much an argument.

 

Not to mention the whole Bannorn has connections to the Templar thing again, risking civil war to help the robes doesn't strike me as something Alistair would do. Add in rebuilding and repairing the damage from the Blight and Civil war and Neutrality is about the only outcome.

 

At this point many things are speculations. However with current little amount of evidence Alistair is slightly pro-mage and will likely support them. However as I said at this point anything can change and nothing is certain. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Both Queen Anora and King Alistair declare that the mages will be free of templar oversight in the US Ending for the Hero of Ferelden, and both rulers decree that the mages have earned the right to govern themselves when the Hero of Ferelden asks for his people to be freed from the Chantry.

I think Lambert's defection from the Chantry could allow the crown of Ferelden to fulfill it's promise of an autonomous Circle, especially if the Inquisition supports the mages.

 

Or you know incite full on civil war considering you have nobility in the country that is related to members of the Templar Order and are sort of supportive of them.

 

But i'm certain that probably won't happen, i mean it isn't as if Fereldans don't fight each other for the barest thread of reason.

 

And it wouldn't happen to be coming just barely a decade after a blight when the Nation is still in recovery, I mean surely nothing could go wrong from this Brave Moral stand!

 

 Its lovely how folks overlook all the negatives that come out of such things.