216 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

But that doesn't mean Jowan couldn't have found one and learned blood magic

 

Again, that's not the point. Irving signing the Rite against Jowan when he didn't have first-hand knowledge of what Greagoir knew about is the issue, and the talk about survival, sacrifices, and the constraints of being under Chantry authority are the issues of concern.

 

Then there's the Rite of Tranquility itself. Putting a living person through a procedure where their emotions and humanity (for lack of a better word) are taken from them in a process that the person can't even contest (which was the case with Jowan, Karl, and others) is horrifying.

[Hellion Rex]

Again, that's not the point. Irving signing the Rite against Jowan when he didn't have first-hand knowledge of what Greagoir knew about is the issue, and the talk about survival, sacrifices, and the constraints of being under Chantry authority are the issues of concern.
 
Then there's the Rite of Tranquility itself. Putting a living person through a procedure where their emotions and humanity (for lack of a better word) are taken from them in a process that the person can't even contest (which was the case with Jowan, Karl, and others) is horrifying.

I agree that it's inhumane, but do you have a better way? A way to deny a Mage their power permanently, short of outright killing them?

[Master Warder Z_]

I agree that it's inhumane, but do you have a better way? A way to deny a Mage their power permanently, short of outright killing them?

 

I wholeheartedly support the rite for that very reasoning.

 

That said i do view it as a kindness and not a punishment in some cases.

[AresKeith]

I agree that it's inhumane, but do you have a better way? A way to deny a Mage their power permanently, short of outright killing them?

 

It's a necessary evil for some cases

[Hellion Rex]

I wholeheartedly support the rite for that very reasoning.

That said i do view it as a kindness and not a punishment in some cases.

In the case of that one girl, Orana, I agree that it was a kindness.

"Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued by nightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows.
Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.

Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.

With her connection to the Fade severed, Orana was again able to sleep. Her health returned, and she was at peace with her decision. She continued her education at the Circle and excelled in enchanting and runecrafting.

Orana saw the Rite of Tranquility as a gift, although many mocked her for this view. Later in life, she created an amulet to remind her of the Rite. She named it Tranquility. The Tranquility Amulet soothes the mind and imparts a general sense of well-being to its wearer."

Poor girl. So brave.

[LobselVith8]

I agree that it's inhumane, but do you have a better way? A way to deny a Mage their power permanently, short of outright killing them?

 

Considering that Karl and Pharamond preferred death to being made tranquil again, I don't see it as an option that should be pursued.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Considering that Karl and Pharamond preferred death to being made tranquil again, I don't see it as an option that should be pursued.

But some mages genuinely want to be made Tranquil. 

And it also prevents dangerous mages from doing dangerous things without having to kill them.

[Hellion Rex]

Considering that Karl and Pharamond preferred death to being made tranquil again, I don't see it as an option that should be pursued.

Unfortunately though, it's all that we have at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly all for chucking Tranquility out the window the second we have a better option.

[Shadow Fox]

Considering that Karl and Pharamond preferred death to being made tranquil again, I don't see it as an option that should be pursued.

Yet Orana and Owain asked for it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering that Karl and Pharamond preferred death to being made tranquil again, I don't see it as an option that should be pursued.

 

Considering they were both emotionally unstable at that request i'd not take it overly far if at all.

[Hellion Rex]

Consequently, we don't know why Pharamond was actually made Tranquil to begin with.

[AresKeith]

Consequently, we don't know why Pharamond was actually made Tranquil to begin with.

 

And Karl was the result of abusive authority, that isn't really a strike against the Rite itself

[Steelcan]

In response to OP

 

 

Different Circles are different

[Master Warder Z_]

Consequently, we don't know why Pharamond was actually made Tranquil to begin with.

 

Also true.

 

He could have been an abnormally weak mage, prone to possession for all we know.

 

Edit: Thinking back that would actually be somewhat ironic

[Hellion Rex]

For the record, did we actually have proof that Pharamond actually had his powers back? I don't remember it ever being clear. I know he had his emotions back.

[LobselVith8]

Unfortunately though, it's all that we have at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly all for chucking Tranquility out the window the second we have a better option.

 

I'm all for chucking the Rite of Tranquility out the window, period. I find little else in Thedas more horrific and monstrous than what the Rite entails to the respective person.

[Steelcan]

I'm all for chucking the Rite of Tranquility out the window, period. I find little else in Thedas more horrific and monstrous than what the Rite entails to the respective person.

 

And I'm all for chucking rebellious mages out the window as well

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm all for chucking the Rite of Tranquility out the window, period. I find little else in Thedas more horrific and monstrous than what the Rite entails to the respective person.

 

o.o Mass beheadings for all!

[renfrees]

Despite being an Aequitarian, Irving doesn't think the Chantry or the templars have the best interests of the mages at heart: "And Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all Tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians, sitting smugly on their righteousness."

Despite what he believes, Chantry never wanted all mages to be made Tranquil. To the Chantry mages are valuable resource for several purposes, not last of them being military. It is convenient, that mages fear Tranquility, it makes them more pliant, but Tranquil Solution was never an intent, nor Chantry would ever allow it.

[AresKeith]

I'm all for chucking the Rite of Tranquility out the window, period. I find little else in Thedas more horrific and monstrous than what the Rite entails to the respective person.

 

So you'd rather they all be killed then, even the ones that ask for it?

[Master Warder Z_]

Despite what he believes, Chantry never wanted all mages to be made Tranquil. To the Chantry mages are valuable resource for several purposes, not last of them being military. It is convenient, that mages fear Tranquility, it makes them more pliant, but Tranquil Solution was never an intent, nor Chantry would ever allow it.

 

Hence why you have you know even the paranoid Meredith rejecting the notion.

[LobselVith8]

Yet Orana and Owain asked for it.

 

While other people don't, and during the time of the Chantry controlled Circle (before the vote of separation), it's existence precluded a person even having the right to contest it. That's part of what I find so horrific about it, and why I'd never endorse it's use.

 

The use of the Rite of Tranquility against living people, both willing and unwilling, is part of what I take into consideration with the Chantry controlled Circles.

[renfrees]

I'm all for chucking the Rite of Tranquility out the window, period. I find little else in Thedas more horrific and monstrous than what the Rite entails to the respective person.

I doubt it's gonna go away in foreseen future. The Tranquils are too valuable, when working with lyrium and enchantments. Even if outlawed, it would become illegal, but won't fade away.

[Master Warder Z_]

While other people don't, and during the time of the Chantry controlled Circle (before the vote of separation), it's existence precluded a person even having the right to contest it. That's part of what I find so horrific about it, and why I'd never endorse it's use.

 

The use of the Rite of Tranquility against living people, both willing and unwilling, is part of what I take into consideration with the Chantry controlled Circles.

 

Before the rebellion you mean.

[Shadow Fox]

While other people don't, and during the time of the Chantry controlled Circle (before the vote of separation), it's existence precluded a person even having the right to contest it. That's part of what I find so horrific about it, and why I'd never endorse it's use.

 

The use of the Rite of Tranquility against living people, both willing and unwilling, is part of what I take into consideration with the Chantry controlled Circles.

Yet you have repeatedly ignored that some mages prefer it to death or being hunted by demons when they sleep because it goes against your morallity and neither the City Elf or Casteless Warden can contest his/her imprisonment nor can the farmer who steals food or female soldier who deserts in Awakening mages are far from the only ones to get a raw deal in Thedas.