626 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

That makes me wonder: For those that justify blood magic for more than the Evilulz, is it ever okay to mind control someone?  Before you say yes, think about it.  One of the key points that the more fanatic pro-mages like to bring up is how Tranquility seems a lot like mind control and that is an awful thing.  That it is taking away the former mage's will and brainwashing them.  I'm not debating against that, since I can understand that opinion.  Still though...

 

I think using blood magic in that manner can be justified under certain conditions. Imagine you're a blood mage, you see Vaughan and his cohorts attempting to abduct elven women, and you can use mind domination to seize control of him to stop him from committing crimes against these women. I think, in that scenario, it would be justified to use it. The darkspawn may also be susceptible.

 

I don't like the RoT, but what makes a blood mage mind screwing someone any better than the Templar that take advantage of someone easily led? 

 

Would it be justified if a templar took advantage of a Tranquil to save their own skin?  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to see where some of you guys are coming from.

 

I don't think the two are comparable. The Rite of Tranquility is a permanent procedure that fundamentally changes you by removing your emotions, and until the revelations made recently it was irreversible (although the "cure" is incredibly dangerous). Temporarily controlling someone with blood magic isn't.

[Noctis]

I will not...be toyed with!

 

That makes me wonder: For those that justify blood magic for more than the Evilulz, is it ever okay to mind control someone?  Before you say yes, think about it.  One of the key points that the more fanatic pro-mages like to bring up is how Tranquility seems a lot like mind control and that is an awful thing.  That it is taking away the former mage's will and brainwashing them.  I'm not debating against that, since I can understand that opinion.  Still though...

 

I don't like the RoT, but what makes a blood mage mind screwing someone any better than the Templar that take advantage of someone easily led? 

 

Would it be justified if a templar took advantage of a Tranquil to save their own skin?  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to see where some of you guys are coming from.

I don't care about anything I just want chaos

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't care about anything I just want chaos

You're not one of the posters I was addressing.  You've admitted that you're in it for the Evilulz.

[Divine Justinia V]

I will not...be toyed with!

 

That makes me wonder: For those that justify blood magic for more than the Evilulz, is it ever okay to mind control someone?  Before you say yes, think about it.  One of the key points that the more fanatic pro-mages like to bring up is how Tranquility seems a lot like mind control and that is an awful thing.  That it is taking away the former mage's will and brainwashing them.  I'm not debating against that, since I can understand that opinion.  Still though...

 

I don't like the RoT, but what makes a blood mage mind screwing someone any better than the Templar that take advantage of someone easily led? 

 

Would it be justified if a templar took advantage of a Tranquil to save their own skin?  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to see where some of you guys are coming from.

 

As long as Tranquility is an available option, and I don't ever see that being disposed of, so yes.

I'm not one of those people that thinks two wrongs don't make a right, in fact, I encourage such behavior. Like you said, I will not be toyed with. If you want to do something to me or my kind (in real life it'd be family or something), prepare to have it done to you 10x worse.

[Grieving Natashina]

LobselVith8, on 14 Mar 2014 - 4:55 PM, said:

I think using blood magic in that manner can be justified under certain conditions. Imagine you're a blood mage, you see Vaughan and his cohorts attempting to abduct elven women, and you can use mind domination to seize control of him to stop him from committing crimes against these women. I think, in that scenario, it would be justified to use it. The darkspawn may also be susceptible.

 

 

Sorry, but that's what normal spells are for.  Unless the mage was utterly exhausted (which is how I see mana) they wouldn't need blood magic.  There is never excuse for mind control, even as a blood mage.  Use a different spell if you must, but mind control?    Even with someone as awful as Vaughan, there is zero excuse for mind control.  Boil him, mash him, stick him in a stew?  Sure, but I won't get behind brainwashing.

 

 

 

I don't think the two are comparable. The Rite of Tranquility is a permanent procedure that fundamentally changes you by removing your emotions, and until the revelations made recently it was irreversible (although the "cure" is incredibly dangerous). Temporarily controlling someone with blood magic isn't.

We don't know of the long term effects of someone being brainwashed into doing something against their will.  I consider mind control in particular to be just as bad as someone that takes advantage of a Tranquil to save their own skin.   Neither camp has any higher morale ground on this one.

[LobselVith8]

Sorry, but that's what normal spells are for.  Unless the mage was utterly exhausted (which is how I see mana) they wouldn't need blood magic.  There is never excuse for mind control, even as a blood mage.  Use a different spell if you must, but mind control?    Even with someone as awful as Vaughan, there is zero excuse for mind control.  Boil him, mash him, stick him in a stew?  Sure, but I won't get behind brainwashing.

 

Being a mage outside the Circle is a crime in Andrastian society. Are you planning on fighting your way through Vaughan, his men, the city guard, and any templars that might try to capture or kill you once you use magic to expose yourself as a mage, and stop him?

 

We don't know of the long term effects of someone being brainwashed into doing something against their will.  I consider mind control in particular to be just as bad as someone that takes advantage of a Tranquil to save their own skin.   Neither camp has any higher morale ground on this one.

 

Losing your emotions don't seem to be one of those effects, so I don't think the comparison is apt.

[Noctis]

You're not one of the posters I was addressing.  You've admitted that you're in it for the Evilulz.

nah that last post was just for the lolz I do care about stuff like friend,family etc but still evil

[Iron Fist]

Blood magic is justified when your goals require its use, I guess.

[Divine Justinia V]

Being a mage outside the Circle is a crime in Andrastian society. Are you planning on fighting your way through Vaughan, his men, the city guard, and any templars that might try to capture or kill you once you use magic to expose yourself as a mage, and stop him?

 

I see, I see, using blood magic like the stealthy mage you are

[Grieving Natashina]

Being a mage outside the Circle is a crime in Andrastian society. Are you planning on fighting your way through Vaughan, his men, the city guard, and any templars that might try to capture or kill you once you use magic to expose yourself as a mage, and stop him?

 

 

Losing your emotions don't seem to be one of those effects, so I don't think the comparison is apt.

You're assuming that they wouldn't have called in every guard they could to take out a mage.  The reason why the Vaughan comparison doesn't work very well is because the City Elf isn't a mage.  I'm betting they would have taken much higher precautions if the PC had been a mage.

 

If you insist on the Vaughan comparison, there is the entire Spirit school to choose from.  Walking bomb, anyone?  Or how about the Entropy school?  You can paralyze your foes, weaken them.  I see no reason for mind control.  

 

I'm betting guilt, anger and frustration would be among the effects of being forced to do something against your will.  We do have an example of that, at the end of the Repentance quest.  It doesn't make it any better if it's a mage or Templar that's doing it.  Using a Tranquil or mind controlling your enemy is just something I find morally repugnant.

[Master Warder Z_]

Being a mage outside the Circle is a crime in Andrastian society. Are you planning on fighting your way through Vaughan, his men, the city guard, and any templars that might try to capture or kill you once you use magic to expose yourself as a mage, and stop him?

 

So you argue its alright for you to be a renegade mage vigilante but its not alright for the men who come after you to their job?

 

Point being if you don't want the Templars to kill you, don't use blood magic, they don't usually kill random apostates, they take them to the circle

 

Blood mages are notably an exception.

[Medhia_Nox]

There's no single moment I would argue makes blood magic deplorable.

 

The question comes in - do I want to use something literally fueled by pain? 

 

A sword is fueled by physical forces - a fireball, by mana.  Blood magic is fueled by suffering - it is, to my understanding, part of the lore regardless of who wishes to ignore it.

 

So - the question is, for me, when would I feel justified using something fueled by suffering to cause suffering?  Never.

 

When would I commit self-mutiliation for power?  Never.

 

Blood magic itself is not an evil thing - but the means by which it is fueled is entirely malevolent, and the means by which greater spells are cast means blood magic - by its nature - corrupts. 

 

I do not traffic in malevolent, corruptive concepts.

 

There is simply my morality - and how that morality interacts with the morality of others.  To someone who finds blood magic perfectly fine - I am an opponent.  To someone who uses blood magic reluctantly - I remain an opponent even if my reaction is different.  To someone who abhors blood magic - I am an ally.  To someone who is crippled with fear of blood magic... that they see blood mages everywhere and need to perform fascist, cruel acts in the name of squashing blood mages - I would be an opponent.

 

While I am against blood magic entirely - that is only for my morality - and it does not justify acts of depravity of my own to stop blood magic.  Each situation remains unique on how I would deal with others using blood magic.

 

Of those blood mages I've killed in the DA games - none of them were specifically because of blood magic. I found no blood mages in the DA games who were not craven deplorable criminals.

[LobselVith8]

You're assuming that they wouldn't have called in every guard they could to take out a mage.  The reason why the Vaughan comparison doesn't work very well is because the City Elf isn't a mage.  I'm betting they would have taken much higher precautions if the PC had been a mage.

 

If you insist on the Vaughan comparison, there is the entire Spirit school to choose from.  Walking bomb, anyone?  Or how about the Entropy school?  You can paralyze your foes, weaken them.  I see no reason for mind control. 

 

The important word here is: stealth. (Gracias, Divine Justina!) Choosing from a specific school of magic that requires the protagonist to reveal he's a mage outside of the confines of the Circle would cause issues with a lot of people, perhaps even individuals who might not be privy how morally depraved Vaughan is (like the city guard I cited earlier).

 

Blood magic can be used in a way that no one would even know you're a mage, as we saw when Hawke was temporarily controlled by Idunna, which is why I think it's a fair example. If it stops Vaughan from abducting and raping those women, I think it's valid to use blood magic to stop him.

[MisterJB]

The good mages are all in the Circle. Therefore, mages outside of the Circle are bad and would be more interested in helping Vaughan than the elves; therefore they shouldn't use blood magic.

 

That's logic. You can't beat it.

[Grieving Natashina]

So, someone can't just paralyze their foe (via the Entropy school,) stab them quietly and move the body?   Either way, the guards are going to know you escaped and will be coming after you.  Blood magic would take that situtation and make it bad to worse. Now you want to add confirmed maleficar to the list of growing charges?  That's like being branded a cop killer; everyone is going to be looking for you even more so than if you just killed a normal citizen.

 

You can be sneaky as a mage without using blood magic.

 

Oh and if you suggest that you don't have to kill him, Lob, then please remember that people who were mind controlled remember it.  The blood magic option is just sounding more and more like a terrible idea.

[Divine Justinia V]

So, someone can't just paralyze their foe (via the Entropy school,) stab them quietly and move the body?   Either way, the guards are going to know you escaped and will be coming after you.  Now you want to add confirmed maleficar to the list of growing charges?  That's like being branded a cop killer; everyone is going to be looking for you even more so than if you just killed a normal citizen.

 

You can be sneaky as a mage without using blood magic.

 

It's times like this, Tash, that being able to turn into a dragon age fly away would be infinitely beneficial   

[Grieving Natashina]

It's times like this, Tash, that being able to turn into a dragon age fly away would be infinitely beneficial 

LOL Okay, first time someone has called me Tash.  

 

Flemeth: You could never be a dragon.

 

Me: Teasing b*tch.

[Divine Justinia V]

LOL Okay, first time someone has called me Tash.  

 

Flemeth: You could never be a dragon.

 

Me: Teasing b*tch.

 

Oops, sorry! I hope that's okay lol!

 

and I know, BioWare dangled that option in front of us and then Flemeth crushed our dreams

(attempting to get back on topic) I'd love to know what she [Flemeth] is. I assume she uses blood magic.

[Grieving Natashina]

Oops, sorry! I hope that's okay lol!

 

and I know, BioWare dangled that option in front of us and then Flemeth crushed our dreams

(attempting to get back on topic) I'd love to know what she [Flemeth] is. I assume she uses blood magic.

It takes a helluva lot more on the forums to offend me than an unusual shortening of my online handle.

 

Why would you say that?  Flemeth seems like she's beyond needing to use blood magic.  If you're getting into her possibly possessing Morrigan, then would that be considered blood magic, spirit magic or something else entirely?

[Master Warder Z_]

Oops, sorry! I hope that's okay lol!

 

and I know, BioWare dangled that option in front of us and then Flemeth crushed our dreams

(attempting to get back on topic) I'd love to know what she [Flemeth] is. I assume she uses blood magic.

 

I'd assume she likely uses whatever form of magic that suits her whim.

 

And Blood magic would likely be among those, given her "daughter" Morrigan expressly doesn't give a fig for the concept of using blood magic it self, likely due to imprinting done by Flemeth in her education.

 

Her being a blood mage though isn't likely to be the largest bit of the horror story of Flemeth though.

[Divine Justinia V]

Why would you say that?  Flemeth seems like she's beyond needing to use blood magic.  If you're getting into her possibly possessing Morrigan, then would that be considered blood magic, spirit magic or something else entirely?

 

Lol, true, very true. But I wonder if she used it to get to the position she's in now? She is such an enigma to me. (and good, I just get lazy typing sometimes, but if it bothers you let me know and I will never use it again )

 

I'd assume she likely uses whatever form of magic that suits her whim.

 

And Blood magic would likely be among those, given her "daughter" Morrigan expressly doesn't give a fig for the concept of using blood magic it self, likely due to imprinting done by Flemeth in her education.

 

Her being a blood mage though isn't likely to be the largest bit of the horror story of Flemeth though.

 

Do you like her, Z? I know how you feel about Mages in general, but is she an exception, or..?

[Jaronking]

I have a question is Blood magic Justified if you use it on a 70 year old man on his death bed and is going to die in a few days but his a naff  life force to heal a child with cancer or was injured in a bandit attack yes your using bll\ood magic buts its on someone who going to die anyway   

[Grieving Natashina]

@Hana He probably feels the same way about her as I do: She's a great character with a lot of potential and who's story I look forward to learning more of.  That doesn't mean I like her as a person or trust her anymore than I could throw her dragon form.

[themageguy]

When you use your own blood to power the spell. Using another IMO, is evil.
Also, blood magic can be used as a source of power to fuel normal spells. If a Templar has disrupted my mana, you can bet I'm going to use my blood to blast him /her with flame.
Actually at the start of asunder there's a good example of this....

[Master Warder Z_]

@Hana He probably feels the same way about her as I do: She's a great character with a lot of potential and who's story I look forward to learning more of.  That doesn't mean I like her as a person or trust her anymore than I could throw her dragon form.

 

I think the sooner she dies for good the sooner Thedas magically gets more stable, That's my mindset.