626 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

 All the evidence I see points to the organization of the Chantry emerging from the Inquisition.  Before that, the Chantry was deemed a cult until 1:1 Divine when Justina I declared it the national religion.

 

Much of the policies that the Chantry uses came from the Inquisition of old.  It was Inquisitors that became Templars and Seekers.

 

''The Nevarran Accord was an agreement signed in 1:20 Divine[1] between the Inquisition and the Chantry to unite under one cause and establish the Chantry’s military arm. Together the Chantry and the Inquisition created the Circle of Magi[1][2] during the rule of Orlais’s Emperor Drakon I, who is sometimes credited with the creation of the Circles.[3] The Inquisition subsequently developed into two groups: the Templar Order and theSeekers of Truth.[4]''

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah, that's what I read.  I still think that the Chantry became organized very largely due to the Inquisition.  

[Lorien19]

It's really not, it's all the same.

Well,those who'll have to clean up somebody else's mess,may disagree... 

[KainD]

Well,those who'll have to clean up somebody else's mess,may disagree... 

 

If you accept someone as a member of your society, then you accept their impact on you, as they accept your impact on them, and the impact is always going to be there it's inevitable. If people are not accepted as members of the society they are imprisoned/eliminated, and then they don't impact anyone anymore. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Mages should be excepted into society, I fully agree.  However, a blood mage is a danger to not just themselves, but to everyone else around them.  I honestly think that a few bad apples using blood magic have contributed to the cycle that perceives of a "need" to keep mages locked up.

[Jack Druthers]

As I see it fighting magic or preserving it has turned into an arms race that has gone on for generations.  Templars have their vocation,  but will Templars always have access to lyrium? Initally, whether it's blue or red will only matter to them, and what they believe is the immediate threat and the resources they have to fight it..    Would a Templar without the blue stuff, turn to red lyrium knowing what happened to Meredith, but use it with the same view as blood mages who restrict themselves to their own pain to power their spells? Would they turn it down and risk fighting with the pain of withdrawal and all that goes with it?   I think they are too dedicated for that. 

 

There will always be mages, and, if Sandal's prophecy is anything to go by, all Thedas will "be as they were".  Some will still fight this purely out of survival,  belief and their own morals. Where will that lead though?  How close must Thedas come to devastation? How far are they willing to go and defend that by saying  I am justified in my actions because what you want is not what I want, calling it necessity not an excuse. The arms race will continue with the addition of Demons/Spirits in the background.  It may be a matter of how far some people are willing to go for survival.

 

An injured mage, low on mana finds it difficult to heal let alone cast spells, a Templar has only so many vials and abilities, no matter their race, they are still mortal.

[Lorien19]

If you accept someone as a member of your society, then you accept their impact on you, as they accept your impact on them, and the impact is always going to be there it's inevitable. If people are not accepted as members of the society they are imprisoned/eliminated, and then they don't impact anyone anymore. 

Well It depends,If he's going to wear an explosive vest and blow up an apartment block or decide to play with fire and burn other people with him as well ,It wouldn't be much of an impact more like a catastrophe,caused by somebody's irresponsibility.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well It depends,If he's going to wear an explosive vest and blow up an apartment block or decide to play with fire and burn other people with him as well ,It wouldn't be much of an impact more like a catastrophe,caused by somebody's irresponsibility.

Yep.  As someone said earlier, it's one thing if it's just you you're going to hurt.   Blood magic almost never just hurts the mage, it tends to harm everyone around them too.  

[Lorien19]

As I see it fighting magic or preserving it has turned into an arms race that has gone on for generations.  Templars have their vocation,  but will Templars always have access to lyrium? Initally, whether it's blue or red will only matter to them, and what they believe is the immediate threat and the resources they have to fight it..    Would a Templar without the blue stuff, turn to red lyrium knowing what happened to Meredith, but use it with the same view as blood mages who restrict themselves to their own pain to power their spells? Would they turn it down and risk fighting with the pain of withdrawal and all that goes with it?   I think they are too dedicated for that. 

 

There will always be mages, and, if Sandal's prophecy is anything to go by, all Thedas will "be as they were".  Some will still fight this purely out of survival,  belief and their own morals. Where will that lead though?  How close must Thedas come to devastation? How far are they willing to go and defend that by saying  I am justified in my actions because what you want is not what I want, calling it necessity not an excuse. The arms race will continue with the addition of Demons/Spirits in the background.  It may be a matter of how far some people are willing to go for survival.

 

An injured mage, low on mana finds it difficult to heal let alone cast spells, a Templar has only so many vials and abilities, no matter their race, they are still mortal.

Lyrium is used by the chantry as a method of to control the templars due to it's addictive nature.Alistair stated that the templars don't really need it to purge magic,he even doubted that it made their powers more effective.Besides we've already seen the Templars turning to the red stuff, after all the schism from the chantry means that the would no longer have access to normal lyrium. Whether they sought power through the red lyrium or simply took it out of necessity to cope with lyrium withdrawal we will find out soon.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lyrium is used by the chantry as a method of to control the templars due to it's addictive nature.Alistair stated that the templars don't really need it to purge magic,he even doubted that it made their powers more effective.Besides we've already seen the Templars turning to the red stuff, after all the schism from the chantry means that the would no longer have access to normal lyrium. Whether they sought power through the red lyrium or simply took it out of necessity to cope with lyrium withdrawal we will find out soon.

That seems to have been retconned. Lyrium of some sort is apparently now necessary. Even Alistair's taking the stuff now.

[Jack Druthers]

That was my point, templars have an addictive substance and health potions to fight with.  Mages have magic as their resource.  Both have limits and an alternative will have to be found.

[Lorien19]

That seems to have been retconned. Lyrium of some sort is apparently now necessary. Even Alistair's taking the stuff now.

Oh I see,So if you start taking the stuff there's no way out of it apparently...It makes more sense now tbh.

[Grieving Natashina]

Oh I see,So if you start taking the stuff there's no way out of it apparently...It makes more sense now tbh.

Alistair is on lyrium now?  Was that in the comics?  May I get a source?  If that's true, I'm rather sad about that.  

 

Anyway, since I'm a huge fan of WoG when I can find it, here's what David had to say about Templars and lyrium.

 

TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?

 

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

 

 

 Also, Samson the Templars talks about not liking Meredith, but has a need to rejoin the Templars because "they're the ones that got the dust."  So yeah, it is a Chantry leash on the poor guys.

[Teddie Sage]

Probably for self-defense or to protect people. If used to manipulate or possess people, then no.

[TurretSyndrome]

I think one can define Blood Magic in two ways depending on how they want to use it. For the sake of the discussion, I could name the two categories as Light Blood Magic and Dark Blood Magic. 

 

So the first category involves using blood only as a fuel to power your spells. The blood may only be taken from within the user's body. Many mages in the franchise say that blood is a great alternative to Lyrium, so honestly, I don't see any problem in using a different, more powerful, more effective and a more efficient power source, as long as the user can stick to the rule. 

 

Dark blood magic involves using others' life's blood as a power source as well as mind control etc. This category consists of all types of uses of the school which most will see as "evil".

 

Having said that, there's also a grey area. What if one uses the blood of Darkspawn to fight the Darkspawn, or uses mind control abilities or spells like Blood Control on them? What if you use the blood of the enemies that you mean to kill anyway or mind control them? As long as one doesn't use innocents to power their magic(like slaves), there really isn't much to say.

 

I also agree with a lot of posters on here who say that Blood Magic could be just as useful as it is dangerous, Nuclear power is a great example. The usage of Nuclear bombs did not stop researchers to continue to understand the power source, because that's all it is, a power source, only ignorants name it a weapon and as inherently wrong. In my opinion, what's more dangerous than Blood Magic is people's ignorance towards it.

[Jack Druthers]

It's that grey area that I'm talking about.  The Wardens were aptly named. 

[Writ3Wing3r]

My stance over-all is very simple:

1) If I was a mundane in a Dragon age society with authority I would allow mages to live freely among mundanes as equals, sacrificing safety, knowing that things might go wrong, I would take that risk, risk my own life, hoping that they would be productive members of society with their magic. 

If they would try to take advantage I would put a sword through their chest. If magic would go wrong I would treat it like a nature disaster. 

2) If I was a mage I would ask to live equally with mundanes and I would do my best to be a productive member of society and not try to take advantage of them. If I was denied my freedom I would become a blood mage, fight back with all my might to secure my own freedom or die, and then go and actually take advantage of the mundanes Tevinter style, as they didn't want equality. 

 

Edit: Just pointing out that Thedas is currently on the stage when mages are denied their freedom, so that's why I basically say to all mages: 

Fight, fight will everything you have, use blood magic and dominate the mundanes, they didn't want equality. 

1) I completely agree with your first point.

 

2)I have to disagree with your win at any cost strategy, when your long term goal is freedom for your people especially a very small, very powerful and very feared minority like mages you have to understand that the first time you rise up you're probably not going to win. What you do have to be concerned for is the next generation to rise up, If everybody remembers rebel mages as blood magic using, win at any cost terrorists public opinion will never turn their way. Sometimes you need to fight a losing battle simply because it needs to be fought.

[KainD]

2)I have to disagree with your win at any cost strategy, when your long term goal is freedom for your people especially a very small, very powerful and very feared minority like mages you have to understand that the first time you rise up you're probably not going to win. What you do have to be concerned for is the next generation to rise up, If everybody remembers rebel mages as blood magic using, win at any cost terrorists public opinion will never turn their way. Sometimes you need to fight a losing battle simply because it needs to be fought.

 

I don't really think public opinions matters anymore at this point, public has made their choice, it's just war now. If you can't win the war after you brake free, then run and hide and gather strength, and then return when you can win it. 

[TurretSyndrome]

It's that grey area that I'm talking about.  The Wardens were aptly named. 

 

Eh... Grey Wardens are hardly "grey" when it comes to Blood Magic. They're more of a "all's fair in love, war and blight" type of players. They'll resort to whatever is necessary to fight the Darkspawn, that's seen in Legacy. 

 

At best, they'll turn a blind eye to what the mage is doing with Blood Magic, they won't be against blood control, demon conjuring or whatever it is the mage is doing, as long as he/she isn't directly attacking the order. Warden's Keep also shows how Grey Wardens don't mind using demons if they're pushed into a corner either. In any case, I'm sure that's not how the entire order is, just some(or most) of them.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't really think public opinions matters anymore at this point, public has made their choice, it's just war now. If you can't win the war after you brake free, then run and hide and gather strength, and then return when you can win it. 

So not only will the cycle of violence continue, you actually WANT it to continue..

[KainD]

So not only will the cycle of violence continue, you actually WANT it to continue..

 

Until people propose equality, but it's mundanes turn to do it not the mages. 

[renfrees]

Until people propose equality, but it's mundanes turn to do it not the mages. 

Equality is a myth, no society in the history of humanity has it. The best you can have is an illusion, which doesn't make it true.

[KainD]

Equality is a myth, no society in the history of humanity has it. The best you can have is an illusion, which doesn't make it true.

 

Then the cycle of violence continues. I don't see the point in half-baked solutions, might as well go all the way.

[renfrees]

Then the cycle of violence continues. I don't see the point in half-baked solutions, might as well go all the way.

It always does. Even currently existing "peace" in our world is based on inequality of nuclear weapons.

[whogotsalami]

I rerely play as a mage, have like 2 overall playthroughs in DAO and DAI combined, used Blood Mage spec once in DAO through high persuasion skill(convinced a desire demon).

 

IMO it's just a tool as long as you have a responsible person using it and not abusing it. Tevinter Imperium must have found a way to control it because if the Thedosian stories were correct it should have already been a Demon Abyss by now