I could be wrong, but I don't think that the use of blood in magic makes it blood magic, you have to use blood to power the spell for it to be blood magic. I am opposed to phylacteries so don't think I am trying to justify their existence, but I don't think the blood powers the spell, it just allows for the tracking.
The darkspawn blood used in the joining is magically altered, I don't think it is used to power the spell.
We have from Gaider that this is, technically, blood magic.
We have from Gaider that this is, technically, blood magic.
Thank you, I withdraw my objection.
I'm not against it but it is more dangerous than other magic (but then so is spirit healing). So I guess it would be better to avoid it and only use it if and when needed.
Ofc my characters won't think that way. 
We have from Gaider that this is, technically, blood magic.
One WoG coming up! It's relevant to the thread, so I figured I'd just put up the quote and link.
http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that the use of blood in magic makes it blood magic, you have to use blood to power the spell for it to be blood magic. I am opposed to phylacteries so don't think I am trying to justify their existence, but I don't think the blood powers the spell, it just allows for the tracking.
The darkspawn blood used in the joining is magically altered, I don't think it is used to power the spell.
"Phylacteries, ironically, are a form of blood magic.[2] When a templar wishes to track down a fugitive mage they will use the phylactery as a way of homing in on the fugitive by way of a "hot and cold" situation, i.e., the phylactery glows, becoming brighter the closer it gets to its respective mage.[3] If the mage dies, the phylactery will no longer glow.[4] It can be even used to remotely cast a spell on its owner mage.[5]"
http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Phylactery
"In the Warden's Keep DLC, the Warden learns of an ancient Grey Warden mage named Avernus who utilized blood magic to manipulate the darkspawn taint used in the Joining (the Joining itself being a form of blood magic)."
http://dragonage.wik...iki/Blood_magic
BM is justified when I get pissed off and heads need to roll.
When used to protect the greater good and under the watchful eyes of an organization capable of controlling the user and with a vetted interest to not allow it to harm the general population.
Which means Joining and phylacteries get a pass.
When used to protect the greater good and under the watchful eyes of an organization capable of controlling the user and with a vetted interest to not allow it to harm the general population.
Which means Joining and phylacteries get a pass.
Would you allow BM to be practiced by Loyalists in the name of research?
I agree to an extent, i would say blood magic in terms of its use with wardens is a necessity however for mages and templars it isnt. It can be progressive but at what cost? Look at the cost of the same example you made with the Wardens Keep DLC, templars dont necessarily NEED phylacteries, it just makes the job much easier
Yeah that's why i put "Appears" in terms of templars and I'm sorry about creating the misconception that the progressive blood magic was essential, neither of them are, but lore wise one was, and the other just shows that blood magic does have it's benefits (though i myself forgot some of the parts that happen in DA:O wardens keep so I'll take back that statement)
In isolated locations with a strong Veil, guarded by templars who will regularly rotate in order to avoid mind control, with a magic barrier around said locations and a garrison stationed outside ready to call fo reinforcement should said barriers be activated as well as any other security measures they can think of...sure.
That does beg the question: Does anywhere in Thedas have a strong enough Veil to make blood magic safe to experiment upon?
That does beg the question: Does anywhere in Thedas have a strong enough Veil to make blood magic safe to experiment upon?
With the events unfolding in DA:I, i doubt it at the moment
That does beg the question: Does anywhere in Thedas have a strong enough Veil to make blood magic safe to experiment upon?
Well...nowhere at this point in time. We know that blood magic can reseal the Veil though, like Avernus did.
Anything is better than Merril's plan of using blood magic at the behest of a demon to experiment on a magical object whose function has been lost to time and has already killed two people in the middle of an overcrowded city where the Veil has more holes than the moon.
How she didn't burn the city to the ground is beyond me.
I would totally use blood magic on someone's dog if it kept crapping on my lawn.
Well...nowhere at this point in time. We know that blood magic can reseal the Veil though, like Avernus did.
Reseal it is key. Can you make it stronger without it being torn in the first place though?
Anything is better than Merril's plan of using blood magic at the behest of a demon to experiment on a magical object whose function has been lost to time and has already killed two people in the middle of an overcrowded city where the Veil has more holes than the moon.
How she didn't burn the city to the ground is beyond me.
I applaud you JB. That was the best analogy I have ever heard describing Kirkwall's Veil.
That does beg the question: Does anywhere in Thedas have a strong enough Veil to make blood magic safe to experiment upon?
Probably not, though in my opinion, I sometimes wonder if the Vael itself is actually essential or not, it was said in one part of the wiki (I believe) that the vael didn't exist at one point in time, so it begs the question as to whether the Vael is actually a necessary thing or not and whether demons were once the problem they used to be before arlathan fell.
I don't think that the Veil being torn means that there are, literally, holes in the Veil as if it is a physical thing. It means that ias been weakened enough that demons can pour freely through so, there's probably nothing stopping it from being strengthened before it reaches "breaking" point.
That could probably be something worth looking into in the long term. AN extensive and continued effort by all Southern Circle mages to strengthen the Veil continent wide.
Anything is better than Merril's plan of using blood magic at the behest of a demon to experiment on a magical object whose function has been lost to time and has already killed two people in the middle of an overcrowded city where the Veil has more holes than the moon.
How she didn't burn the city to the ground is beyond me.
Er, you're giving Merrill way way too much credit here. I'll agree that her use of the Eluvian wasn't a good idea for herself, her clan, Kirkwall or the Veil. I won't pretend otherwise, but I'd like to think that mages like Quentin were more likely to burn the city down.
Serial killer blood mage experimenting with necromancy > Merrill and the mirror. At least the demon itself was trapped outside of town until the Keeper decided to be a dullard and become willingly possessed.
Anything is better than Merril's plan of using blood magic at the behest of a demon to experiment on a magical object whose function has been lost to time and has already killed two people in the middle of an overcrowded city where the Veil has more holes than the moon.
How she didn't burn the city to the ground is beyond me.
Please stop talking about Merrill. Please?
Edit: 
Round four hundred and fifty three has commenced.
Merrill didn't use blood magic at the behest of Audacity; she went to Audacity (who was trapped and bound to a statute) to learn blood magic because she lacked the necessary amount of lyrium to cleanse the shard with ordinary magic.
Given that she studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard, she seems to be the most informed in the narrative about the potential of the ancient elven devices.
I would disagree a little here, before we get back on topic: I have a feeling Morrigan knows more than even Merrill does in that regard. Having access to actual books does help.
@Emissary I wasn't planning on going much further, but in a thread like this Merrill is relevant and is going to come up. C'mon Emissary, I'll buy you a drink.
I would disagree a little here, before we get back on topic: I have a feeling Morrigan knows more than even Merrill does in that regard. Having access to actual books does help.
My biggest point would probably be that its only purpose or use, is to augment power (besides wardens) and not even a significant amount without someone dying. There are too many risks involved for something thats not needed to practice magic in the first place. Im willing to sacrifice a power source if it means avoiding living sacrifices and demon possession.
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