626 réponses à ce sujet

[Writ3Wing3r]

I don't really think public opinions matters anymore at this point, public has made their choice, it's just war now. If you can't win the war after you brake free, then run and hide and gather strength, and then return when you can win it. 

And where do you run and hide too when no one will harbor you because of the tactics you employed. I suppose Tevinter would be the only real choice I can see, but ask yourself this would the magisters really want to take in a host of mages that generally veiw slavery as repugnant, or invite an exalted march from the south while fighting the Qunari in the north?

[KainD]

And where do you run and hide too when no one will harbor you because of the tactics you employed. I suppose Tevinter would be the only real choice I can see, but ask yourself this would the magisters really want to take in a host of mages that generally veiw slavery as repugnant, or invite an exalted march from the south while fighting the Qunari in the north.

 

Right, first I don't think mages should have a problem with enslaving mundanes that don't want equality and that didn't have the problem with keeping them locked for centuries. I mean they could, but I would encourage them not to. 

 

Second, if that is the problem and mages don't want anything to do with mundanes, I think that a dalish lifestyle wouldn't be a big problem somewhere far away from the templars. I'd would even assume that surviving in wilderness with magic is a lot easier than without it, as killing wild beasts, cooking, building is all easier with magic. 

[Iron Fist]

The use of blood magic is justified if and when you can get away with it. 

[Writ3Wing3r]

Right, first I don't think mages should have a problem with enslaving mundanes that don't want equality and that didn't have the problem with keeping them locked for centuries. I mean they could, but I would encourage them not to. 

 

Second, if that is the problem and mages don't want anything to do with mundanes, I think that a dalish lifestyle wouldn't be a big problem somewhere far away from the templars. I'd would even assume that surviving in wilderness with magic is a lot easier than without it, as killing wild beasts, cooking, building is all easier with magic. 

On the first point, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

As to the second, I don't think it would be anywhere near as easy as you seem to think but I could see it working to a certain small degree.

[MisterJB]

Second, if that is the problem and mages don't want anything to do with mundanes, I think that a dalish lifestyle wouldn't be a big problem somewhere far away from the templars. I'd would even assume that surviving in wilderness with magic is a lot easier than without it, as killing wild beasts, cooking, building is all easier with magic. 

So, basically, the survivors become Apostates and the new magelings born amidst the normal population will be rounded up and returned to the Circle. Thus, the status quo is mantained.

Sounds good to me. Eventually, even these Apostates will be caputred and either killed or returned to where they belong. Grace's group proved just how inept mages are at living in the wild.

[KainD]

So, basically, the survivors become Apostates and the new magelings born amidst the normal population will be rounded up and returned to the Circle. Thus, the status quo is mantained.

Sounds good to me. Eventually, even these Apostates will be caputred and either killed or returned to where they belong. Grace's group proved just how inept mages are at living in the wild.

 

Then that is the fate of the ''moral'' mages that would not support Tevinter ways. 

[MisterJB]

Meanwhile, the immoral ones will run to Tevinter and become penniless refugees in a land that will encourage the disassociation of Fraternities in favor of personal gratification and advancement. Some will be enslaved, others will die fighting Qunari and one or two may actually become magisters of renown.

And thus justice will have been served.

[KainD]

Meanwhile, the immoral ones will run to Tevinter and become penniless refugees in a land that will encourage the disassociation of Fraternities in favor of personal gratification and advancement. Some will be enslaved, others will die fighting Qunari and one or two may actually become magisters of renown.

And thus justice will have been served.

 

Life is a struggle, I'm just going to smile at those that endured imprisonment, broke free, fought back and survived, and advanced to the top of the ladder in Tevinter. 

[JoltDealer]

A resource as useful and expensive as Lyrium vs. the life of an Orlesian noble? Is that even a question?
 

Again, it depends on how much you perceive the value of a life to be.  Just because someone does not adhere to a culture you approve of or like, does not make his or her life worth less.  I know your post is a humorous and rhetorical question, but it's an interesting point of view nonetheless.  

 

A lot of people assume that just because someone is your "enemy," that it's suddenly okay to take their life.  It's not a point of view that I agree with.  Each life is precious and full of meaning regardless of who they are or the actions they've taken -- only those who understand that fact are fit to take it.

 

I greatly dislike the idea of blood magic.  Not only is it monstrous at its core, but it encourages this idea that the spellcaster is more important than his or her victims.  Treating people like they're less important than you and therefore fitting mana fuel is not something I believe can ever be properly justified.

[KainD]

Again, it depends on how much you perceive the value of a life to be.  Just because someone does not adhere to a culture you approve of or like, does not make his or her life worth less.  I know your post is a humorous and rhetorical question, but it's an interesting point of view nonetheless.  

 

A lot of people assume that just because someone is your "enemy," that it's suddenly okay to take their life.  It's not a point of view that I agree with.  Each life is precious and full of meaning regardless of who they are or the actions they've taken -- only those who understand that fact are fit to take it.

 

If you don't take the lives of your enemies you will only make life worse for BOTH of you. 

[JoltDealer]

If you don't take the lives of your enemies you will only make life worse for BOTH of you. 

Do not mistake valuing life as an unwillingness to take it.  People should always keep in mind the value of someone's life.  This applies to day-to-day interactions, but it is absolutely crucial to remember in times of war.  This keeps people focused on ending battles quickly and efficiently to minimize bloodshed.  It also encourages killing one, so that a hundred can live.  I know this is a tad off-topic from the blood magic discussion, but it's a philosophy that I wished more understood.  Only complete psychopaths and monsters kill for the sake of killing.

[TurretSyndrome]

Again, it depends on how much you perceive the value of a life to be.  Just because someone does not adhere to a culture you approve of or like, does not make his or her life worth less.  I know your post is a humorous and rhetorical question, but it's an interesting point of view nonetheless.  

 

A lot of people assume that just because someone is your "enemy," that it's suddenly okay to take their life.  It's not a point of view that I agree with.  Each life is precious and full of meaning regardless of who they are or the actions they've taken -- only those who understand that fact are fit to take it.

 

I greatly dislike the idea of blood magic.  Not only is it monstrous at its core, but it encourages this idea that the spellcaster is more important than his or her victims.  Treating people like they're less important than you and therefore fitting mana fuel is not something I believe can ever be properly justified.

 

 

That's an interesting point of view, very white knight-like. Tell me, have you ever been on a real battlefield? Or ever in a situation where the only way to survive is to kill whatever moves towards you? You wouldn't say all that if you did. I myself have never been in a situation like that but I know for sure that I won't have the leisure to think about life and it's value, and the importance of the life of what's in front of me, if I ever fall into such a situation. 

 

If someone is my enemy, enemy in such a way that I know their intent is to kill me(unlike a rival , or someone in your school or workplace bearing a grudge on you), then yes, it IS "okay" to take their life. Sure, I would try to avoid killing them if I am such a skilled fighter as to be able to do just enough damage to incapacitate them, rather than kill them. You may carry ideals such as "every life is precious" and whatnot but don't expect the enemy will too. Mercy may be something you're willing to show but don't expect the same from your enemy. 

 

The third paragraph of your post is really what made me reply to you. "It encourages the idea that your life is more precious than your enemy's" You don't need Blood Magic to tell you that your life is more important. Your mind already instinctively tells you that whenever you fall into a life threatening situation, and you know what, your mind is bloody right. Seriously, if you don't consider your life to be more important than your enemy's, if you constantly focus on the enemy's well being while he slashes away at you, trust me when I say that you won't have a chance in a real fight.

 

Having said all that, I understand where you're coming from. I sometimes feel that way too when people on the forums say things like "I don't like that guy, I'll have to kill him soon", but that's when I come back to reality telling myself that it's just a game. Be happy you don't have to even think of such things in real life. 

[The Baconer]

A lot of people assume that just because someone is your "enemy," that it's suddenly okay to take their life.  It's not a point of view that I agree with.  Each life is precious and full of meaning regardless of who they are or the actions they've taken -- only those who understand that fact are fit to take it.

 

For some reason, I find that very chilling.

[Master Warder Z_]

For some reason, I find that very chilling.

 

If i'm being entirely honest?

 

I never came up with an ideology or mantra when it comes to taking lives, I mean i have a notion that i'd like to keep living and i'd rather kill them then the other way around.

 

But that's it, very undetailed and modifiable.

[JoltDealer]

That's an interesting point of view, very white knight-like. Tell me, have you ever been on a real battlefield? Or ever in a situation where the only way to survive is to kill whatever moves towards you? You wouldn't say all that if you did. I myself have never been in a situation like that but I know for sure that I won't have the leisure to think about life and it's value, and the importance of the life of what's in front of me, if I ever fall into such a situation. 

 

If someone is my enemy, enemy in such a way that I know their intent is to kill me(unlike a rival , or someone in your school or workplace bearing a grudge on you), then yes, it IS "okay" to take their life. Sure, I would try to avoid killing them if I am such a skilled fighter as to be able to do just enough damage to incapacitate them, rather than kill them. You may carry ideals such as "every life is precious" and whatnot but don't expect the enemy will too. Mercy may be something you're willing to show but don't expect the same from your enemy. 

 

The third paragraph of your post is really what made me reply to you. "It encourages the idea that your life is more precious than your enemy's" You don't need Blood Magic to tell you that your life is more important. Your mind already instinctively tells you that whenever you fall into a life threatening situation, and you know what, your mind is bloody right. Seriously, if you don't consider your life to be more important than your enemy's, if you constantly focus on the enemy's well being while he slashes away at you, trust me when I say that you won't have a chance in a real fight.

 

Having said all that, I understand where you're coming from. I sometimes feel that way too when people on the forums say things like "I don't like that guy, I'll have to kill him soon", but that's when I come back to reality telling myself that it's just a game. Be happy you don't have to even think of such things in real life. 

 

Fortunately, I have never been on a battlefield, nor do I ever intend to be.  I've been in more than my fair share of fights, but I don't consider those anything more than schoolyard squabbles.  I grew up in a town that is very conservative and pro-military.  Many of the people I grew up with and am still friends with currently serve in America's armed forces.  Some have killed and some haven't.  I also have an uncle who was a member of the United States Secret Service for several years before joining the FBI.  He is now retired due to extensive nerve damage caused by a car accident.  My philosophy is based on their views as well as tidbits taken from Sun Tzu's The Art of War.  If you've never read it, I highly recommend it.  

 

The fact is, every life is precious regardless of who it belongs to.  Each person is composed of a lifetime of memories, relationships, and growth that you may not have been privy to.  When you are being attacked, it is kill or be killed.  You aren't left with any other choice, but that doesn't make it okay.  If you recognize that, you'll realize my view is nothing like that of a "white knight."  Certain situations will call on you to do terrible things, but knowing the weight of your actions will always ensure that you take them with justification.  It's the difference between killing a man for robbing you and killing a man who was trying to kill you.  In one instance, the man is likely desperate for cash and has no interest in taking your life -- killing him is a gross overreaction.  In the other instance, the man is trying to end your life -- killing him is necessary for survival.

 

As for the blood magic part, I think many of your statements are based on the misconception that I would not kill my enemy if attacked.  If my enemy were truly trying to kill me, I would not hold back, nor would I let him leave alive.  However, I would not take pride in my actions despite having proper justification.  My actions would have just robbed someone of his or her remaining time in this world and as well as having taken away another's friend, relative, or spouse.  My issue with blood magic lies in it taking power from the lives of others.  The thought that, "I need more power and you are all nothing but fuel," disgusts me.  If the question is, "When is Blood Magic justified?"  The answer is, "There is never proper justification for it," especially when lyrium can also serve to power spells.

 

And I appreciate your last paragraph.  I'm glad you can understand.  I know we are only talking about a game, but people often act in the way they think they would in real life.  I pray that I never have to see a battlefield.  However, understanding the value of life is the one thing I can recommend to all people.  With the way the world is today, it's far too easy to view other people as obstacles in your path instead of other human beings.  We only ever see glimpses of others' lives and we treat them accordingly, despite the fact that they may just be having bad day.  Perspective is key.

 

For some reason, I find that very chilling.

 

You should.  

[KainD]

Do not mistake valuing life as an unwillingness to take it.  People should always keep in mind the value of someone's life.  This applies to day-to-day interactions, but it is absolutely crucial to remember in times of war.  This keeps people focused on ending battles quickly and efficiently to minimize bloodshed.  It also encourages killing one, so that a hundred can live.  I know this is a tad off-topic from the blood magic discussion, but it's a philosophy that I wished more understood.  Only complete psychopaths and monsters kill for the sake of killing.

 

People value different things. You don't have to value peoples lives to end battles quickly and efficiently, you just have to not enjoy bloodshed. 

On the other hand I never dehumanize anyone. There are no ''monsters'' as you called them, they are people just like you and I, it just so happens that they enjoy killing. I believe in respecting all people equally, and imo there is no need in dehumanizing people that you don't agree with. 

[KainD]

 "When is Blood Magic justified?"  The answer is, "There is never proper justification for it," especially when lyrium can also serve to power spells.

 

Not when a templar burns your mana along with the mana you got from lyrium. Then you become completely defenseless unless you know blood magic.

[The Baconer]

You should.  

 

Yes, but I find it even more unsettling than a simple "it's you or me" mentality. Especially when approaching a video game like Dragon Age.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not when a templar burns your mana along with the mana you got from lyrium. Then you become completely defenseless unless you know blood magic.

 

Erm, if they have gotten that close to you, within range of a holysmite then in all likelihood you will be having a sword rammed into you're guts fairly soon.

 

Knowing demonic magic ultimately would aid you not.

[KainD]

Erm, if they have gotten that close to you, within range of a holysmite then in all likelihood you will be having a sword rammed into you're guts fairly soon.

 

Knowing demonic magic ultimately would aid you not.

 

Or you blast them in the face with something nasty, or stop their limbs from moving as you twist them in agony, and rejoice that you've taken time to learn blood magic. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Or you blast them in the face with something nasty, or stop their limbs from moving as you twist them in agony, and rejoice that you've taken time to learn blood magic. 

 

You know that actually might work, long as it isn't the PC anyway.

 

Then you just end up with a sword in your gut after a lame one liner.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Killing for "greater good" makes you better than killing for money? nah it just makes you think that you are better it is only justification mostly for person who is pulling that out... at least person who kills for money is honest in that matter.

 

And well murder is the best solution when you want solve problem permanently as in this world always follow rule might makes right...
  

[JoltDealer]

People value different things. You don't have to value peoples lives to end battles quickly and efficiently, you just have to not enjoy bloodshed. 

On the other hand I never dehumanize anyone. There are no ''monsters'' as you called them, they are people just like you and I, it just so happens that they enjoy killing. I believe in respecting all people equally, and imo there is no need in dehumanizing people that you don't agree with. 

 

Of course you don't have to value someone's life in order to kill or end a battle quickly.  It is merely a philosophy shared by myself and many of my close friends.  However, if one decides to kill ten people for no discernable reason, they become a monster in my eyes.  You cannot value life in the way that I do and still think kindly of those who show such a gross disregard for it.  Respect is earned and is deserved by those worthy of it.

 

Not when a templar burns your mana along with the mana you got from lyrium. Then you become completely defenseless unless you know blood magic.

 

Or unless you knew some sort of skill that didn't rely on mana, like martial arts or just good, old-fashioned running.  Blood magic is convenient, but that doesn't make it justified when you could just run away, fight, or surrender.

 

Yes, but I find it even more unsettling than a simple "it's you or me" mentality. Especially when approaching a video game like Dragon Age.

 

Maybe I take things a tad too far, but I very much enjoy actually envisioning myself in these situations.  After all, Dragon Age is a role-playing game.  It makes for good food for thought.

[KainD]

Of course you don't have to value someone's life in order to kill or end a battle quickly.  It is merely a philosophy shared by myself and many of my close friends.  However, if one decides to kill ten people for no discernible reason, they become a monster in my eyes.  You cannot value life in the way that I do and still think kindly of those who show such a gross disregard for it.  Respect is earned and is deserved by those worthy of it.

 

Reasons are always discernible, no one ever does anything for no reason. You are not supposed to think kindly of people you disagree with, they can be your enemies after all. You just always have to realize that they are people just like you, not some monsters. Respect is earned through doing different things , depending on the values of one you are trying to impress, and whose respect you want to acquire. 

 

 

Or unless you knew some sort of skill that didn't rely on mana, like martial arts or just good, old-fashioned running.  Blood magic is convenient, but that doesn't make it justified when you could just run away, fight, or surrender.

 

 

You are suggesting fighting with one hand tight behind your back, there is no reason to do so. 

[Master Warder Z_]

You are suggesting fighting with one hand tight behind your back, there is no reason to do so. 

 

And you're adding in weakness to demonic suggestion when you already encounter said malign spirits every time you close your eyes.

 

So...I don't know, him advising retreat seems more appropriate then a temporary boost of power, you didn't get to enjoy long because you gave into a demon one evening.