626 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All mages experiment with magic. It's called learning new spells.

[KainD]

Could you clarify, please?

 

Or, if this is saying that this only justifies screwing over the minorities... no. This definition of "greater good" allows you to financially screw over the haves if the have-nots are starving.

 

Greater good is math. For the greater good of individual, for the greater good of community, for the greater good of a nation, there is no universal greater good except for that which each individual claims it to be. 

[KainD]

All mages experiment with magic. It's called learning new spells.

 

And blood magic is very potent, allowing for spells of great power. Most powerful spells will always pose the greatest risks. 

[MisterJB]

Experiment is the key word here, not blood magic. Blood magic offers great power for experiments however. 

Experiment in this context obviously means "dabble in" which encompasses all forms of blood magic.

Otherwise, not only would we have to draw a line between what can be considered an experimentation and what can't; we'd have to accept that when a practice of blood magic becomes popular enough that it can no longer be considered an experiment, demons would, for some reason or another, stop being drawn to it. After all, every single spell has to be the result of experiments conducted by mages.

 

Blood magic makes mages more susceptible to possession by WOG and that's that.

[KainD]

Otherwise, not only would we have to draw a line between what can be considered an experimentation and what can't; we'd have to accept that when a practice of blood magic becomes popular enough that it can no longer be considered an experiment, demons would, for some reason or another, stop being drawn to it. 

 

Demons are not drawn to blood magic, they are drawn to mages, powerful ones shine bright, blood magic offers power. 

Tevinter perfected blood magic enough to not have loads of abominations running around, while they practice it. 

[JoltDealer]

And how are we supposed to know when something is or isn't necessary? That's simply making a blanket statement without any regards to context.

 

Does it really need context?  Someone attacks you, so you drain them of their life force, use it to kill their friends, and then risk demons physically entering the world and corrupting your own mind for the sake of your survival.  It's much more than is necessary if survival is the only goal.

 

Life can't teaches you one thing, but teaches another person a different lesson. You said it yourself before, every life is unique. You will never understand fully people that act different from you, but the reasons are always there. Just enjoying the act of killing because it is more interesting that plain boredom is reason enough. 

 

Running is an option, surrendering is not - it puts you back where you started. But one should only run when they did everything in their power, otherwise fighting becomes very unproductive. You overestimate the powers of a semi-broken templar order imo. Normally I could agree, specially if they had all the phylacteries, but now they are in a pretty weakened state. 

 

There are bound to be a few maleficarum around, they should teach the others. 

 

I see your point, but if they enjoy killing, then they deserve to die.  If you value life, sometimes killing someone is the only way to preserve it.  Someone who just likes killing would fall under that category.

 

Regardless of whether you'd end up back where you started, you could still find an opportunity to try and escape again.  It's better than being killed on sight.  However, I had not taken their status of the splintered Templar Order into account.

 

Just because they "should" does guarantee that they will.  If they did, most blood mages wouldn't have to make pacts with demons to learn it.  They'd just go to Tevinter.

[KainD]

I see your point, but if they enjoy killing, then they deserve to die.  If you value life, sometimes killing someone is the only way to preserve it.  Someone who just likes killing would fall under that category.

 

Regardless of whether you'd end up back where you started, you could still find an opportunity to try and escape again.  It's better than being killed on sight.  However, I had not taken their status of the splintered Templar Order into account.

 

Just because they "should" does guarantee that they will.  If they did, most blood mages wouldn't have to make pacts with demons to learn it.  They'd just go to Tevinter.

 

My point was that these people are not monsters and are just different, and that anybody that you disagree with might be eligible to die.

 

And yes, you know, I consider this conflict a failure for mages if they don't go for Tevinter, they are just not strong enough to fight the whole society on their own without serious military backup. 

[MisterJB]

Demons are not drawn to blood magic, they are drawn to mages, powerful ones shine bright, blood magic offers power. 

Tevinter perfected blood magic enough to not have loads of abominations running around, while they practice it. 

So, going by your suggestion that the word "experiment" is what is important, that'd mean that as soon as something stops being an experiment and becomes an accepted practice, demons would cease to be drawn to it despite how powerful it may be. That's hardly logical.

 

We have no idea what the Tevinters do or how many abominations are running around up there. Mostly, it seems the more powerful Magisters have simply enslaved the lesser powerful demons.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Greater good is math. For the greater good of individual, for the greater good of community, for the greater good of a nation, there is no universal greater good except for that which each individual claims it to be. 

I don't see what this has to do with... say, preventing abominations from rampaging through the streets or realizing that Dust Town is utterly abhorrent.

[The Baconer]

Does it really need context?  Someone attacks you, so you drain them of their life force, use it to kill their friends, and then risk demons physically entering the world and corrupting your own mind for the sake of your survival.  It's much more than is necessary if survival is the only goal.

 

You seem to be getting hung up on draining other people of their life force, which is indeed one application, but it's entirely possible for the user to draw from their own life force, which is almost universally the method used in situations like this, from what we've seen.

[KainD]

So, going by your suggestion that the word "experiment" is what is important, that'd mean that as soon as something stops being an experiment and becomes an accepted practice, demons would cease to be drawn to it despite how powerful it may be. That's hardly logical.

 

We have no idea what the Tevinters do or how many abominations are running around up there. Mostly, it seems the more powerful Magisters have simply enslaved the lesser powerful demons.

 

No, no I didn't say that. If something draws demons and you record it and you understand how it works, then if you don't want demons you don't perform that particular magic again. But while you experiment you can cause all sorts of trouble until you learn by trial and error of what is best for you. 

[KainD]

I don't see what this has to do with... say, preventing abominations from rampaging through the streets or realizing that Dust Town is utterly abhorrent.

 

It might be beneficial for someone. 

[JoltDealer]

My point was that these people are not monsters and are just different, and that anybody that you disagree with might be eligible to die.

 

And yes, you know, I consider this conflict a failure for mages if they don't go for Tevinter, they are just not strong enough to fight the whole society on their own without serious military backup. 

I wouldn't say that anybody who disagrees with me is eligible to die.  However, if you're known for killing hundreds of people, you can't value life and just let that kind of person keep on living.  

 

I'll say this, Tevinter makes some badass mage armor.

[KainD]

I wouldn't say that anybody who disagrees with me is eligible to die.  However, if you're known for killing hundreds of people, you can't value life and just let that kind of person keep on living.  

 

I'll say this, Tevinter makes some badass mage armor.

 

You simply don't value all life, if you do you die, because to survive you have to kill, other people, animals, plants, microorganisms that attack your body.. 

 

Sometimes there is no reason to kill someone who doesn't endanger your well being, even if that person endangers the well being of other people, that person sometimes might even turn out to be your friend. 

 

Agreed on the armor.

[JoltDealer]

You seem to be getting hung up on draining other people of their life force, which is indeed one application, but it's entirely possible for the user to draw from their own life force, which is almost universally the method used in situations like this, from what we've seen.

I am well aware of the fact.  However, it's been stated by Thedosians that even drawing on one's own lifeforce can warp the mind and create a desire to drain others for more power.  Still, twisting people into pretzels, tearing them apart, or even turning them into thralls?  That's a bit much if all you're trying to do is just survive.  It's overkill.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It might be beneficial for someone. 

Okay. How is allowing an abomination to form in the city beneficial?

[Master Warder Z_]

Okay. How is allowing an abomination to form in the city beneficial?

 

This should be good

[KainD]

Okay. How is allowing an abomination to form in the city beneficial?

 

You hate the people that live in that city? You have a greater agenda that involves destroying said city? You simply enjoy chaos? It distracts someone from something you want to do and not get in the way? Reasons can be plentiful. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I am well aware of the fact.  However, it's been stated by Thedosians that even drawing on one's own lifeforce can warp the mind and create a desire to drain others for more power.  Still, twisting people into pretzels, tearing them apart, or even turning them into thralls?  That's a bit much if all you're trying to do is just survive.  It's overkill.

Whats stopping them from just using entropy magic to drain others?

[Cainhurst Crow]

You hate the people that live in that city? You have a greater agenda that involves destroying said city? You simply enjoy chaos? It distracts someone from something you want to do and not get in the way? Reasons can be plentiful.

That sounds like a monstrously stupid idea. Like, releasing a zombie virus to try and profit off it and not concerning yourself with how insanely transmitable and contagious it is. It'll wipe out the town , then the next town over, then the nation, then the world, and you along with it.

[KainD]

That sounds like a monstrously stupid idea. Like, releasing a zombie virus to try and profit off it and not concerning yourself with how insanely transmitable and contagious it is. It'll wipe out the town , then the next town over, then the nation, then the world, and you along with it.

 

Very far fetched. It might be controlled. We have agents of chaos sundering the veil, they must have good reasons, want to hear some ask them.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That sounds like a monstrously stupid idea. Like, releasing a zombie virus to try and profit off it and not concerning yourself with how insanely transmitable and contagious it is. It'll wipe out the town , then the next town over, then the nation, then the world, and you along with it.

 

Well alex mercer did it and if consider new alex mercer same person he got great benefit from it and worst scenario still he got his revenge

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

You hate the people that live in that city? You have a greater agenda that involves destroying said city? You simply enjoy chaos? It distracts someone from something you want to do and not get in the way? Reasons can be plentiful. 

There's much better ways to do that than an abomination. And if you're doing it for chaos's sake or for the sake of hatred you aren't acting for the greater good.

 

A greater agenda can be a justification, but you need to have a really beneficial agenda to justify this. And there's probably a better way to distract people.

[KainD]

And if you're doing it for chaos's sake or for the sake of hatred you aren't acting for the greater good.

 

Acting upon ones own greater good which involves crave for chaos. 

What if there are more people craving for some chaos than people living in that city? 

[The Baconer]

I am well aware of the fact.  However, it's been stated by Thedosians that even drawing on one's own lifeforce can warp the mind and create a desire to drain others for more power.  Still, twisting people into pretzels, tearing them apart, or even turning them into thralls?  That's a bit much if all you're trying to do is just survive.  It's overkill.

 

Perhaps in the case of enthralling your enemies (but then, what of paralyzing them with horrific waking nightmares?), yes, but "twisting people into pretzels" and "tearing them apart" is pretty irrelevant, given that conventional magic can kill people in the exact same, or even worse, manners.