626 réponses à ce sujet

[SerCambria358]

Doesn't seem they're looking hard enough. Fenris has a lot to say as well. Even upon first meeting him he proclaims that "I'm not blind, I know that magic has its uses and there are undoubtedly mages with good intentions".

 

You can choose to simplify it into "I hate mages" and end the story there, just as you can simplify the Arishok to "The Qun". The point being that characters that might appear simple or easy, are not always so.

If you can explain the complexity of Fenris, im willing to withdraw my argument but from what i gathered playing DA2, he's not too interesting in terms of complexity 

 

Says the guy with dictatorial control over a third of his people and is more than willing to kill anyone who disagrees.

 

1.I dont see how that pertains with what i said

2.He's a general not a dictator, The Qun makes dictatorship impossible if followed correctly 

[EmissaryofLies]

So they're vampires now? I hope to god that sparkle is just an arcane shield.

 

I mean a blood mage enthralling another mage to use blood magic. Given what the magisters are able to do with it, such a thing is feasible.

[SerCambria358]

Those quotes are just a different way of saying "the Qun is better". Though you have your opinion, I have mine. Agree to disagree?

 

And in regards to the bolded, that just seems like the typical case of not listening to what a character says. 'Tis why I'm tired of hearing all the hate directed at Fenris, because for the most part the haters just don't pay attention. At all.

Everyone has opinions though. It's what makes the world go 'round... I guess.

 

EDIT: Maker, I need to type faster. So many posts appeared when I clicked post D:

Yea i guess at this point its just a matter of opinion eh, to each there own

[Veruin]

I mean a blood mage enthralling another mage to use blood magic. Given what the magisters are able to do with it, such a thing is feasible.

Feasible, maybe. 

 

But that doesn't sound very effective.

[Lorien19]

Well, when you're being hunted by some dudes who want to kill you or emotionally decapitate you for not wanting to live in their prison, you don't have much choice. I also don't think the Templars are thinking very clearly either, they're hunting a dangerous escaped prisoner.

This is a double edged knife.While anyone would probably try anything to survive or to escape from a similar situation,using a power that brought you and people with similar powers in this position isn't going to prove your point,and what's worse is the greater the number of mages turning blood magic even out of desperation for completely understandable reasons,the more the society will be hostile and suspicious towards them and the more the templars will tighten the noose.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Yes, but the Arishok is meant to use his power for the good of his subordinates, and mentally trained to have no desire other than that. So, he has some right to call out leaders who he sees not doing that, though I think he went a bit overboard.

He has every right to say whatever he wants, I was just saying why I disregard any criticism he has for other societies.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Feasible, maybe. 

 

But that doesn't sound very effective.

It depends on the details. Blood magic usually seems to either completely blank someone's mind, or take control of their body, or some combination of the two. A blood mage who was able to slightly alter the mind in the manner of, say, the Suggestion spell from D&D 3.5 might be able to use the mage's full power. (Whether or not Blood Magic can be this subtle is the question.)

[Lorien19]

I mean a blood mage enthralling another mage to use blood magic. Given what the magisters are able to do with it, such a thing is feasible.

Not if you have enough willpower points to resist...

Seriously though,a blood mage can enthral almost anyone,although it would be twice as tricky to do so with another mage. Take Idunna as an example,a mage hawke is able to resist her spell.

[EmissaryofLies]

If you can explain the complexity of Fenris, im willing to withdraw my argument but from what i gathered playing DA2, he's not too interesting in terms of complexity 

 

 

He's a magister's slave who actually fought for his lyrium markings, he simply does not remember it due to the process nearly destroying him. He claims to be free and to be slave to no one, yet Hawke can argue that he might not wear chains but he's still a slave ot his hatred. He is willing to put aside his hatreds and is loyal to an Apostate Hawke for nearly a decade despite the most awful of experiences.

 

There's also his Fog Warrior story.

 

His knowledge and respect of the Qun.

 

His view of the Dalish and City Elves.

 

His view of life and having to repeatedly advise him to make his own decisions.

 

His potential romance with an Evil Apostate Hawke.

 

His abilities due to his lyrium fused skin.

 

There's also the story of what happens with his Sister.

 

He can go willingly back into slavery if Hawke betrays him.

 

                    - He is not simply a one note, one key type of character despite appearing so.

[Veruin]

Not if you have enough willpower points to resist...

Seriously though,a blood mage can enthral almost anyone,although it would be twice as tricky to do so with another mage. Take Idunna as an example,a mage hawke is able to resist her spell.

For Hawke though, it seems to be a case of PC plot armour. So if you didn't have a mage with you, you don't get conversation killed.  As this applies to all classes.

[SerCambria358]

He has every right to say whatever he wants, I was just saying why I disregard any criticism he has for other societies.

Trying to avoid sounding confrontational but why would having a position of power discredit that persons opinion on a society?

[Steelcan]

I headcanoned that my blood mage Hawke was in fact controlling everyone and Meredith was the only one who was resisting his influence

[Writ3Wing3r]

1.I dont see how that pertains with what i said

2.He's a general not a dictator, The Qun makes dictatorship impossible if followed correctly 

1. I was being dismissive of his arguments, that's what I do with the arguments of dictators.

 

2.Embrace the role we have picked out for you or be turned into a zombie or die. I guess we have different definitions of a dictatorship.

[EmissaryofLies]

Not if you have enough willpower points to resist...

Seriously though,a blood mage can enthral almost anyone,although it would be twice as tricky to do so with another mage. Take Idunna as an example,a mage hawke is able to resist her spell.

 

True, though Hawke was trained by what appears to be some sort of 'Bardock' figure in Malcolm. And Hawke is just a bad, bad, man.

 

He's so bad he makes medicine sick.

[SerCambria358]

He's a magister's slave who actually fought for his lyrium markings, he simply does not remember it due to the process nearly destroying him. He claims to be free and to be slave to no one, yet Hawke can argue that he might not wear chains but he's still a slave ot his hatred. He is willing to put aside his hatreds and is loyal to an Apostate Hawke for nearly a decade despite the most awful of experiences.

 

There's also his Fog Warrior story.

 

His knowledge and respect of the Qun.

 

His view of the Dalish and City Elves.

 

His view of life and having to repeatedly advise him to make his own decisions.

 

His potential romance with an Evil Apostate Hawke.

 

His abilities due to his lyrium fused skin.

 

There's also the story of what happens with his Sister.

 

He can go willingly back into slavery if Hawke betrays him.

 

                    - He is not simply a one note, one key type of character despite appearing so.

There we go,I take back my previous statements

[Rainbow Wyvern]

This is a double edged knife.While anyone would probably try anything to survive or to escape from a similar situation,using a power that brought you and people with similar powers in this position isn't going to prove your point,and what's worse is the greater the number of mages turning blood magic even out of desperation for completely understandable reasons,the more the society will be hostile and suspicious towards them and the more the templars will tighten the noose.

True. 

That's why it's such a bad situation to be in. No matter what, society will think mages dangerous monsters because they're trying to better their situation. People will continue to fear them if they're in Circles, because they'll think mages are dangerous because they 'need to be locked up'. If they escape, they will likely turn to blood magic. The Chantry says blood magic is evil, so society will also of course think they're evil for using blood magic to protect themselves from Templars.

Even if they don't turn to blood magic, people will still not trust them because of the Chantry. 

[Lorien19]

For Hawke though, it seems to be a case of PC plot armour. So if you didn't have a mage with you, you don't get conversation killed.  As this applies to all classes.

Indeed,it still shows us that it's possible to resist, and emphasizes that another mage is less likely to be enthralled,but the possibility is still there of course.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

1. I was being dismissive of his arguments, that's what I do with the arguments of dictators.

 

2.Embrace the role we have picked out for you or be turned into a zombie or die. I guess we have different definitions of a dictatorship.

The problem is that even if the Arishok was no better than the Kirkwall nobility (and he has a case that he is, although I'd say there's little to choose between his society and Kirkwall) that doesn't mean he can't correctly notice the flaws of other societies.

[Veruin]

Indeed,it still shows us that it's possible to resist, and emphasizes that another mage is less likely to be enthralled,but the possibility is still there of course.

In Asunder it is possible to resist, but it's incredibly hard to do so, even for an experienced Templar.

 

So I'm personally chalking that one up to PC plot armour.

[EmissaryofLies]

True. 

That's why it's such a bad situation to be in. No matter what, society will think mages dangerous monsters because they're trying to better their situation. People will continue to fear them if they're in Circles, because they'll think mages are dangerous because they 'need to be locked up'. If they escape, they will likely turn to blood magic. The Chantry says blood magic is evil, so society will also of course think they're evil for using blood magic to protect themselves from Templars.

Even if they don't turn to blood magic, people will still not trust them because of the Chantry. 

 

To be honest, I do not envy them; it might just be easier to go back to the circle given just how much mages have to overcome just to gain a semblance of basic freedom.

 

I'm not advocating that to be clear, simply commenting on the gravity of the mage's dilemma, the mage's struggle against 'the man'.

[Daerog]

When is blood magic justified?

 

I like to play pro-Chantry, pro-Circle, Warden was a loyalist mage.

 

However, if a wave of darkspawn is descending on a village or a tear in the veil is pouring out demons on a town, and the only thing between them and humanity (maybe elves ) is a lone mage. It is unlikely they can take on a large group unless they are gifted, well trained, or has access to lots of lyrium. So, if blood magic is the only way to try and have a successful last stand, go for it. Mages should not be used in war between Thedosian nations.

 

Another way to use it would be for protecting the world from magical threats. Tears in the veil, hunting dangerous mages (like the one in that qunari elf video thing), but if another school can do it just fine, use the less riskier option, even if it isn't the easier one.

 

Certainly should not be used for anything else. No need, other schools cover every other good thing a mage can do and without increased risk of possession or insanity.

 

Emissary magic? Not sure, doubtful. Who would you rather hang around with: A blood mage who could become possessed or control your mind, or a mage who likes using blight magic?

 

quick thoughts...

[SerCambria358]

 

 

2.Embrace the role we have picked out for you or be turned into a zombie or die. I guess we have different definitions of a dictatorship.

Well yes we do, dictator by definition means "a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained power by force." Not only does he share power equally with two others but he can easily be replaced if seen to be unfit and if he had "total power" he wouldnt limit his actions to the philosophies of the Qun otherwise he would've just left Kirkwall without the tome

[Lorien19]

True. 

That's why it's such a bad situation to be in. No matter what, society will think mages dangerous monsters because they're trying to better their situation. People will continue to fear them if they're in Circles, because they'll think mages are dangerous because they 'need to be locked up'. If they escape, they will likely turn to blood magic. The Chantry says blood magic is evil, so society will also of course think they're evil for using blood magic to protect themselves from Templars.

Even if they don't turn to blood magic, people will still not trust them because of the Chantry. 

Although,I'm starting to think that the templars will find themselves in a very similar situation,after the events of Asunder and inquisition.After all some of them use a power as potent as blood magic which,unlike the first is guaranteed to make someone insane.And while some maleficarum may keep blood magic practise secret and quiet,the red templars on the other hand openly attack and burn villages to the ground.I doubt that the society will trust any templar after such events red or not.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Well yes we do, dictator by definition means "a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained power by force." Not only does he share power equally with two others but he can easily be replaced if seen to be unfit and if he had "total power" he wouldnt limit his actions to the philosophies of the Qun otherwise he would've just left Kirkwall without the tome

Well then I withdraw my dictator label and instead put forward autocratic oligarch.