626 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

...with the exceptions of all the runaway mages who didn't want to go back after being tracked down.

I think he meant unintentionally.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think he meant unintentionally.

Ah, if so then nevermind. 

[renfrees]

I wonder what Arishok has to do with blood magic, as the title suggests. Damn BSN.

[JoltDealer]

I don't think blood magic is ever justified.  In fact, I think magic as a weapon should be used sparingly instead of heavily relied upon.  It's why I usually play a combat mage.  I choose to rely on physical strength with magic bolstering my abilities.  That way just regular magic is something I can fall back on in times of crisis.

 

Lyrium is just as effective for "fuel" as blood.  I think more mages easily turn to blood magic because it's so damned easy.  To turn to it for any reason only really serves to point out your own weakness.  Using blood magic says, "I fell into desperation and have become a monster willing to use others' lives for the sake of my own."  Regardless of whether you make a pact with a demon, there's no turning back from that.  I would rather die a man, than survive as a monster.

[esper]

I am fine with blood magic anytime. It is not when it is used, it is how.

 

(Cutting you own hand - your own busniness.

Using your enemies - well I you are going to kill them anyway, it is not more or less horrible than killing people always is.

Using bystanders, innocents or slaves just to fuel a random spell - that is always a no-go for me.)

[Ianamus]

Blood magic is never really justified, because while it can do things that other schools of magic cannot it always comes with a price that is as great as, if not greater than what it accomplishes. 

 

The best example of this is Redcliffe. No other form of magic could possibly allow a single mage to enter the fade under their own power, but the only way to achieve this was to sacrifice a life.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think blood magic is ever justified.  In fact, I think magic as a weapon should be used sparingly instead of heavily relied upon.  It's why I usually play a combat mage.  I choose to rely on physical strength with magic bolstering my abilities.  That way just regular magic is something I can fall back on in times of crisis.

 

Lyrium is just as effective for "fuel" as blood.  I think more mages easily turn to blood magic because it's so damned easy.  To turn to it for any reason only really serves to point out your own weakness.  Using blood magic says, "I fell into desperation and have become a monster willing to use others' lives for the sake of my own."  Regardless of whether you make a pact with a demon, there's no turning back from that.  I would rather die a man, than survive as a monster.

Yeah, when I set up any "serious" mage character in either DA:O or DA2, I never go for the blood mage specialization. Maybe it's the whole maleficar stigma, but you make a good point about the ease of slipping into that route for a mage. In DA2, I always spend that extra point on unlocking Spirit Healer instead, because as powerful as blood magic is, some of its powers just seem pretty insidious, particularly Sacrifice. Could you imagine if Merrill pulled something like that on our group or your own PC during a fight? lol

 

Anyway, who needs blood when my lightning flicking, flame-throwing, spirit-healing force mage can destroy waves of enemies?

 

That said, as someone else in this thread pointed out, it really depends on the nature of the blood magic involved, like the phylacteries, the Wardens' joining ritual, etc.

[Xilizhra]

Lyrium is just as effective for "fuel" as blood.

It's not. You have to use a lot more of it for the same effect.

 

In any case, blood magic isn't monstrous, just a set of powers that trigger other players' emotions in a specific way. Its abilities would be controlled by the same ethics as any other spell (basically, don't use the lethal or mind controlling abilities unless necessary to save your own or someone else's life).

[Ianamus]

It's not. You have to use a lot more of it for the same effect.

 

In any case, blood magic isn't monstrous, just a set of powers that trigger other players' emotions in a specific way. Its abilities would be controlled by the same ethics as any other spell (basically, don't use the lethal or mind controlling abilities unless necessary to save your own or someone else's life).

 

Blood magic is fuelled by pain and suffering, so It is pretty monstrous. If you only use your own pain and suffering to fuel it it is not that much more powerful than regular magic, which is why many turn to using others pain to fuel it, and even if you only use your own you'll still be hurting those who care about you by harming yourself. 

[TK514]

It's not. You have to use a lot more of it for the same effect.
 
In any case, blood magic isn't monstrous, just a set of powers that trigger other players' emotions in a specific way. Its abilities would be controlled by the same ethics as any other spell (basically, don't use the lethal or mind controlling abilities unless necessary to save your own or someone else's life).

It is monstrous. Blood Magic is powered by pain, suffering, and death. They greater the pain and suffering, the more effective the blood magic. It weakens the Veil every time it is used, and leaves the user more susceptible to demonic possession, making them an increased threat to themselves and everyone around them. I cannot imagine how anyone with empathy or a conscience could say that torturing others, and putting even your friends and loved ones at risk, is not abhorrent or that it should not be avoided at all costs.

[Inprea]

It seems to me many who say blood magic is never justified limit the situation to when the mage is in danger and only the mage is in danger. I wonder how many would hold that ground if the mage was perfectly safe and could walk away from the situation at any time. However, it's them, their family and their friends that are about to die horribly or in the process of dieing. We for example saw in DA2 that they are certain conditions that can only be cured by blood magic. At least from what we're told and we're not given anything to believe otherwise. When Hawke's sibling is held bound. Then there was the magic used to hold Cory.

 

So let's put this up there. A town of people have been infected by a horrible sickness. I'm going to draw a bit from Full Metal alchemist and use the flesh to stone sickness. So their body is slowly petrifying but not in an even or smooth process. Rather imagine sharp blocks growing from your skin breaking your body apart and all the pain that comes with this happening over days. Now it turns out the only magic that is known to be able to cure this sickness is blood magic. The mage herself is not infected in anyway so she can just leave.

 

Would you jump her case if she used blood magic to save these peoples lives and end their pain?

 

That or the mage is being asked to use blood magic. The region is flooding and the efforts to control it are failing. There is a mage in town that knows how to alter the earth with magic but there is no way she can alter it enough to save these people or their homes. Now keep in mind for this time period the loss of your home and land could easily mean your and your family's death. The mage is upfront with the fact that the best she can do is help the people flee as she lacks the power or the lyrium to make enough changes to the landscape to handle the water. So the people instead offer their blood. Given the fear of losing their home I'd say they'd already be suffering a fair bit and a painful method of removing the blood could add even more power.

 

Would you rather the mage watch these peoples homes and livelihoods be washed away or dip into the forbidden?

 

Though unless someone has been in a situation where they're about to see everything they've worked for and possibly loved destroyed in a day I don't believe they could give an honest response. Especially if there was no hope for emergency relief from the government.

 

A little side note to anyone who's about to mention weakening the veil. The peoples death and suffering will do that anyway, if it already hasn't, if these events are allowed to continue. Though I haven't seen anything that says blood magic has to weaken the veil.

[EmissaryofLies]

Great post, Inprea.

 

*shuffles back into the shadows*

[Ianamus]

It seems to me many who say blood magic is never justified limit the situation to when the mage is in danger and only the mage is in danger. I wonder how many would hold that ground if the mage was perfectly safe and could walk away from the situation at any time. However, it's them, their family and their friends that are about to die horribly or in the process of dieing. We for example saw in DA2 that they are certain conditions that can only be cured by blood magic. At least from what we're told and we're not given anything to believe otherwise. When Hawke's sibling is held bound. Then there was the magic used to hold Cory.

 

 

The only reason blood magic was the only solution to Hawke's sibling being bound is because blood magic was used to bind them in the first place- so that doesn't really count. Cory's binding I will admit was a legitimate use, but also an incredibly specific situation that no normal mage would find themselves in. 

 

I don't buy the "backed into a corner" argument. When we've seen mages turn to blood magic when backed into a corner they almost always turn into abominations, which is hardly an improvement over dying. And then theres Orsino. How did turning into a Harvester help him or his fellow mages to survive? Even if the Harvester had managed to defeat Hawke and Meredith all that would have resulted would be the destruction of Kirkwall at the hands of a rampaging monster.

[DKJaigen]

Learning Blood magic is always justified as ignorance is not a strength. and people complaining about the death and pain part need to remember that their is no difference between boiling somebody's blood or setting them on fire . both deaths are equally gruesome

[Inprea]

The only reason blood magic was the only solution to Hawke's sibling being bound is because blood magic was used to bind them in the first place- so that doesn't really count. Cory's binding I will admit was a legitimate use, but also an incredibly specific situation that no normal mage would find themselves in. 

 

I don't buy the "backed into a corner" argument. When we've seen mages turn to blood magic when backed into a corner they almost always turn into abominations, which is hardly an improvement over dying. And then theres Orsino. How did turning into a Harvester help him or his fellow mages to survive? Even if the Harvester had managed to defeat Hawke and Meredith all that would have resulted would be the destruction of Kirkwall at the hands of a rampaging monster.

 

A few things wrong with your response. Hawke's sibling is indeed valid. After all. What are you going to do when you find yet another victim of a blood mage? How does the fact that it was blood magic that caused the problem change that only blood magic could fix it? Outlawing blood magic completely sure doesn't prevent those that ignore the law from using it.

 

Also I never backed the mage into a corner. I flat out said that the mage could leave whenever they wanted. It's others that are going to die if the mage doesn't take some drastic steps.

 

Not all mages that use blood magic go abomination either. There was the Magister in DA:O the one selling slaves. I mean heck. He's an evil jackass and a blood mage but he doesn't turn into an abomination. There is also the organization of blood mages in Dinerim or however you spell it. You're led to them by a letter found on a templar corpse. Their leader didn't turn into an abomination. Even Fenris's master didn't turn into an abomination despite it being clear he's about to die and these characters are generally considered evil. They each serve as an example that even if a mage deserve to die and uses blood magic that doesn't mean they're going to transform.

[Xilizhra]

Blood magic is fuelled by pain and suffering, so It is pretty monstrous. If you only use your own pain and suffering to fuel it it is not that much more powerful than regular magic, which is why many turn to using others pain to fuel it, and even if you only use your own you'll still be hurting those who care about you by harming yourself. 

In terms of raw power, perhaps not, but it has capabilities that other magic doesn't; hell, Merrill was able to purge darkspawn taint with it, from her blood alone. In any case, with the prevalence of magical healing, in the long run it won't do much harm unless you start killing people to fuel it.

 

 

It is monstrous. Blood Magic is powered by pain, suffering, and death. They greater the pain and suffering, the more effective the blood magic. It weakens the Veil every time it is used, and leaves the user more susceptible to demonic possession, making them an increased threat to themselves and everyone around them. I cannot imagine how anyone with empathy or a conscience could say that torturing others, and putting even your friends and loved ones at risk, is not abhorrent or that it should not be avoided at all costs.

That's sort of like saying the pain receptors in your brain are monstrous because they cause suffering. Blood magic has no mind or volition, and thus no morality. And hurting oneself may not be so bad if one is already used to painful combat to begin with. As for the Veil, there's no proof whatsoever that blood magic weakens it when used for purposes that aren't expressly for weakening it, like summoning demons.

[KaiserShep]

The only reason blood magic was the only solution to Hawke's sibling being bound is because blood magic was used to bind them in the first place- so that doesn't really count.

 

If I was a mage, and my sibling was bound by blood magic, and only blood magic could release him/her, no one would have any place to fault me for using it to free him/her. I don't particularly like blood magic, and under most circumstances I would avoid it, but in an extreme situation? It would certainly be an option.

[renfrees]

Blood magic is actually more powerful than lyrium, no matter which blood was used. Merril briefly confirms it in "Mirror Image", saying that if she "had piles of lyrium to work with", she could do the same, as she did with her own blood. It just blood of others and their suffering is even more powerful, than mage's own, but it wasn't projected in the game at all. Which i always pitied, BM spec in the game was kinda pathetic.

[Master Warder Z_]

One situation and one situation only.

 

Usage by Gray Warden Mages during the occurrence of a Blight.

 

That is the only time the risk is justifiable.

[renfrees]

As my opinion on OP's question - it is never justified. But there is also little of justice in the world, and sometimes there is no choice. I would do anything to save the ones i love, even worse than blood magic. But it has little to do with justice.

[dragonflight288]

One situation and one situation only.

 

Usage by Gray Warden Mages during the occurrence of a Blight.

 

That is the only time the risk is justifiable.

 

So you consider phylacteries unjustifiable then? 

[Master Warder Z_]

So you consider phylacteries unjustifiable then? 

 

Told you before, don't consider Pseudo blood magic (Magic that involves the usage of blood), blood magic.

 

The Mage Leash, Scrying, etc.

 

It doesn't come from a demonic source and therefore it doesn't qualify to me as blood magic.

 

 Blood Magic comes from Demons.

[EmissaryofLies]

"Phylacteries, ironically, are a form of blood magic"

 

Just because it suits your purposes does mean that it's not blood magic.

 

 

Believe what you must.

[Master Warder Z_]

Believe what you must.

 

I do.

 

Just as you do.

[dragonflight288]

Told you before, don't consider Pseudo blood magic, blood magic.

 

The Mage Leash, Scrying, etc.

 

It doesn't come from a demonic source and therefore it doesn't qualify to me as blood magic.

 

 Blood Magic comes from Demons.

 

The joining is pseudo blood magic, just like the Joining because the blood isn't powering the spell, it's only a component. A vital one, but lyrium is also involved. 

 

And only some lore says blood magic originates from demons. The tevinters say they learned it from the old gods, some obscure bits of lore says the elves of Arlathan developed it themselves and taught the early human mages. Currently however, it's far easier to learn blood magic from demons because all other sources outside of Tevinter are destroyed by the Chantry and the templars. I mean, it's heavily implied that Jowan learned blood magic from the books in the library and not from a demon. 

 

Hence, blood magic does not necessarily come from demons. They're simply the easiest way to learn.