119 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

The tranquil, despite popular belief, are individuals who have had their emotional centers relegated due to their connection to the fade being severed. They can think and act for themselves and even can refuse to obey orders or requests if they feel it is illogical for them to follow those orders. A knight commander couldn't order a tranquil to walk into the ocean and drown because the tranquil would simply refuse to follow that command to lead itself to its own death. Now, they think using only logic and reasoning, with a possible tiny amount of emotion tinting but not dictating their thoughts, though nothing on that has been confirmed and it doesn't actually pertain to the question at hand.

 

Is it possible that we will seen tranquil supporting both sides of the war, who have simply drawn different logical conclusions on who to support. The mage supportive tranquil could reason that, because the mages have declared independence, that it is likely tensions will be high against all those associated with mages, including the tranquil. And that in order to ensure their own safety, they have to travel with those who are less likely to react negatively to them, those being the mages.

 

The templar supportive tranquils could have come to a different conclusion, rationalizing that because of the way the mages issued their declaration of independence, the templars would be looking to kill any mages who were prone to fighting them. A better survival tactic for the tranquil might be to submit to the current templar regime as to prove their worth and give reason not to be killed. Again, doing what is needed in order to survive.

 

I also wonder if there are tranquil on both sides we may end up with a mission in which we must solve a debate between two tranquils on which side has a more valid reason to join. It would be funny to see two tranquils going into a philosophical debate on which survival strategies are more grounded in logic and reason.

[EmissaryofLies]

Probably so. By logical choice as they see it. Or they'll be corralled to do the bidding of whomever has control over them. More than likely the latter. Unless there are tranquil warriors running around that I haven't heard about.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well i doubt that they are so much complex as some try paint them owen couldn't even ask mages to turn off barrier and guy came back to do his job being surrounded by demons well hardly logical and sane solution i see them as uncomplicated robot that if they meet any obstacle can't get around this.Arlik use tranqulity as easy way to control mage and well use for his "desires" because he know that they won't object...

[katerinafm]

Asunder hinted at it. If the tranquil see the people ordering them leading them to stuff that will get them harmed, etc, we could potentially see tranquil opposing templars/chantry, etc.

[LobselVith8]

Probably so. By logical choice as they see it. Or they'll be corralled to do the bidding of whomever has control over them. More than likely the latter. Unless there are tranquil warriors running around that I haven't heard about.

 

Given what Alrik was able to do to the women he made tranquil, I doubt there are any tranquil warriors.

[Master Warder Z_]

Given what Alrik was able to do to the women he made tranquil, I doubt there are any tranquil warriors.

 

That seems like a vast leap to assume the entirety of the tranquil are not martial in any shape or form.

[EmissaryofLies]

Given what Alrik was able to do to the women he made tranquil, I doubt there are any tranquil warriors.

 

True enough.

 

But given that they only operate through reason and logic, they would be very capable if such a thing were possible within the narrative. Sort of like Shutter Island's 'Ghosts' concept.

 

off topic: Personally, I rather just cure their tranquility and bring them along in the fight. Though you'd have to be extremely careful, not all cases of tranquility will have been unjustified.

[MisterJB]

And what exactly does Alrik prove?

If he told a Tranquil to suck him off, why wouldn't she, logically, do it?

It's something that lasts about five minutes and will, at most, leave a bad taste in her mouth. We find it abhorrent because we associate emotions like shame and hummiliation to it but a Tranquil wouldn't. That Alrik was able to convince Tranquil to have sex with him does not, in any way, indicate Tranquils lose the power to choose.

[LobselVith8]

That seems like a vast leap to assume the entirety of the tranquil are not martial in any shape or form.

 

Considering Owain's tranquility prevented him from alerting Wynne to his presence when he encountered her magical barrier, and he decided to clean the storeroom instead of hide in seclusion, I don't find it to be a "vast leap".

[EmissaryofLies]

I ask what good is the power to choose if another party will not allow you to exercise it?

 

After all, these are mages without magic. They are utterly powerless and depend on the good will of others to survive.

 

Edit: I am speaking specifically in the context of the war. And even without such a context, they can still be forced to do whatever they're told; their choice being rendered irrelevant.

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering Owain's tranquility prevented him from alerting Wynne to his presence when he encountered her magical barrier, and he decided to clean the storeroom instead of hide in seclusion, I don't find it to be a "vast leap".

 

You convinced by two cases out of how many that your vast leap isn't a mass judgement of an entire group?

 

There is nothing intrinsic with being tranquil that prevents them from being combatants.

[Master Warder Z_]

I ask what good is the power to choose if another party will not allow you to exercise it?

 

After all, these are mages without magic. They are utterly powerless and depend on the good will of others to survive.

 

Edit: I am speaking specifically in the context of the war. And even without such a context, they can still be forced to do whatever they're told; their choice being rendered irrelevant.

 

Utterly powerless?  *has beheaded many mages with a pointy stick of metal upon several occasions*

 

._. Lacking access to the Arcane doesn't make Tranquil powerless anymore then their logical minds construing internal reasoning for obeying or disobeying orders.

 

And their choices being irrelevant? what of the choice to leave the circle and open a business? Did all of those choices just fall out of the sky magically like a flaming green comet? I don't think so.

[LobselVith8]

And what exactly does Alrik prove?

If he told a Tranquil to suck him off, why wouldn't she, logically, do it?

 

And this is the moment when I decide this discussion isn't even worth it.

[MisterJB]

I ask what good is the power to choose if another party will not allow you to exercise it?

 

After all, these are mages without magic. They are utterly powerless and depend on the good will of others to survive.

 

Edit: I am speaking specifically in the context of the war. And even without such a context, they can still be forced to do whatever they're told; their choice being rendered irrelevant.

The point here is that that situation has to do with the social conditions of Tranquil, not some factor of their biology incurred by the Rite like some pro-mages argue.

[EmissaryofLies]

Utterly powerless?  *has beheaded many mages with a pointy stick of metal upon several occasions*

 

._. Lacking access to the Arcane doesn't make Tranquil powerless anymore then their logical minds construing internal reasoning for obeying or disobeying orders.

 

And their choices being irrelevant? what of the choice to leave the circle and open a business? Did all of those choices just fall out of the sky magically like a flaming green comet? I don't think so.

 

What are you even talking about? They have only been presented as powerless in terms of combat prowess within the scope of both games.

 

You've taken my entire post out of context.

[MisterJB]

And this is the moment when I decide this discussion isn't even worth it.

Running from the question?
I can use prettier words if you want.

If Alrik requested a fellatio from a Tranquil, why would she, logically; which is the realm Tranquils function in; refuse to comply? It will not cause her any physical harm; which is the only type of harm Tranquils are concerned about; whereas he might if she refuses.

I am not saying I think Alrik had the right to sexually abuse Tranquils; what I am saying is that a Tranquil could easily, through the use of logic, choose to please Alrik and that this is not evidence of them lacking free will.

[Master Warder Z_]

What are you even talking about? They have only been presented as powerless in terms of combat prowess within the scope of both games.

 

You've taken my entire post out of context.

 

My point was this mainly, Tranquil for the most part are normal men and women, they have intense mental discipline , a trait suited to warriors.

 

My conclusion is that tranquil warriors are not implausible.

 

And no i merely combated the logic that just because they are lacking magic, doesn't mean they are powerless.

[AresKeith]

Considering Owain's tranquility prevented him from alerting Wynne to his presence when he encountered her magical barrier, and he decided to clean the storeroom instead of hide in seclusion, I don't find it to be a "vast leap".

 

Except it didn't

[Master Warder Z_]

Except it didn't

 

Didn't he say something to the effect of: he would prefer to remain there? As in personal preference, as in a choice descending from the capacity to have free will?

[EmissaryofLies]

My point was this mainly, Tranquil for the most part are normal men and women, they have intense mental discipline , a trait suited to warriors.

 

My conclusion is that tranquil warriors are not implausible.

 

And no i merely combated the logic that just because they are lacking magic, doesn't mean they are powerless.

 

I made that point initally. They're normal insofar as abilities go, everything else? Not at all.

 

Sure their existence is not implausible but we haven't seen one, not one. And everything that we have seen of them in stressful situations lends support towards a theory that the tranquils in the current DA narrative are powerless. Can they become warriors? I think they'd be great at it and that it is possible. But I don't have a single reason to believe that they currently exist in the DA universe.

 

Hopefully a dev can clear this up.

[AresKeith]

Didn't he say something to the effect of: he would prefer to remain there? As in personal preference, as in a choice descending from the capacity to have free will?

 

Seeing as if he did try to warn Wynne he would've been killed

[MisterJB]

Didn't he say something to the effect of: he would prefer to remain there? As in personal preference, as in a choice descending from the capacity to have free will?

There's this mage in the upper tower that chooses to stay in his closet rather than go join Petra's group.

Clearly, this is evidence his mind has been severed and he lacks all free will. He is probably a secret Tranquil; the Templars grow ever more insidious.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Running from the question?
I can use prettier words if you want.

If Alrik requested a fellatio from a Tranquil, why would she, logically; which is the realm Tranquils function in; refuse to comply? It will not cause her any physical harm; which is the only type of harm Tranquils are concerned about; whereas he might if she refuses.

I am not saying I think Alrik had the right to sexually abuse Tranquils; what I am saying is that a Tranquil could easily, through the use of logic, choose to please Alrik and that this is not evidence of them lacking free will.

 

Well robot goes with same rule does that mean robot have free will?Or just all it is capable is repeat as he was programmed pretty much such pattern can be seen here...

[Grieving Natashina]

Didn't he say something to the effect of: he would prefer to remain there? As in personal preference, as in a choice descending from the capacity to have free will?

Yep yep.

 

"I prefer to be in the stockroom.  The stockroom is familiar to me."

 

While we are at it, there are a couple of Tranquil that are hiding right near the steps leading up the 3rd level (I think.)  They do say, once the abomination is dead, "Thank you, I did not wish to die."  I think this was on the floor right below where Freddy Kruger  I mean Sloth was waiting.

[Grieving Natashina]

A little more on topic: I do think Tranquil retain free will.  Yet, without emotions, without a sense of drive, they seem to be very easily led.  I always felt bad for some of the Tranquil due to this.

 

This doesn't mean I think they are incapable of deciding for themselves with regards to mages or templars.  I'm not sure that would matter to them as much as it is people they knew they were safe with.  Just like Owain, they would probably stick with what was familiar to them (their friends, no matter if it's mage or templar) and follow them where they go.