119 réponses à ce sujet

[Jack Druthers]

In answer to the OP yes I do. Tranquil are still people, I think it is that desire to retain that personal identity that would define the divide.

 

There are mages who are so fearful of their own capabilities that they would rather be emotionally mute rather than live with the curse of magic and the potential horror they could inflict on others along with the risk of possession. That does not mean that they would shirk their duty as a Circle mage.

 

Wiki link to Keili  http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Keili

 

Someone who is Tranquil can still get possessed, but there are people who might see that the benefits of Tranquility and logical thought for the greater good. To judge whether it outweighs the loss of individuality and deny their own nature and personality in order to accomplish a goal Is a tough choice but some would doubtless make it, given that choice.

 

Wiki link to "Asunder" http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Pharamond

 

(I keep wanting to use a Spock/Vulcan mating ritual reference.  Sorry, Don't mind me . I think I just "had a moment") 

[Mockingword]

How so?

We're told two things about the Tranquil:

 

a ) They are logical.

 

b ) They will take action to preserve their own lives, and won't obey orders that would result in their death.

 

But the behaviour they demonstrate is not at all consistent with that information, at least not if the Thedosian conception of logic is the same as our own.

 

Owain's bumming around the storeroom while abominations try to break in from the upper floors is neither logical nor in the interests of his own self-preservation. Wynne expresses surprise that he didn't call out for help, and she's right to be surprised, because calling for help is what a logical person who wants to live would do. Calling for help carries a greater chance of survival than staying quiet possibly could. Nobody can save Owain if they don't know he's there.

 

So, either Owain is not logical, or he doesn't want to live.

 

We also know, or it is at least implied, that Tranquil will perform sexual acts if ordered (it should be noted that this is not the same thing as consenting, which I don't believe they are able to do).

 

But thanks to Isabela and Seneschal Bran (?), we know that sexually transmitted diseases exist in Thedas. Performing sexual acts is therefore a dangerous action that could put the health and life of a Tranquil at risk. Also, if their bodies work anything like ours do (which I would not assume, but many people do), then sex also carries a risk of pregnancy, which would affect a Tranquil's ability to perform other tasks and is also life-threatening. Not to mention that, the physiological responses in humans that facilitate sexual intercourse are triggered by arousal. Which is an emotion. Which Tranquil cannot feel.

 

Without these physiological responses, sex is uncomfortable at best, and carries a risk of pain and injuries.

 

So the Tranquil that perform sex acts are either not behaving logically, or they don't mind opening themselves up to lasting harm and the possibility of death.

 

Therefore, pending further information, the portrayal of the Tranquil is inconsistent.

[The Baconer]

So the Tranquil that perform sex acts are either not behaving logically, or they don't mind opening themselves up to lasting harm and the possibility of death.

 

This would be assuming they didn't perform these acts under coercion (as in, they decided that it was more logical to engage in said acts rather than suffer the potential consequences by refusing).

[Grieving Natashina]

 

This is going to end poorly, so maybe we should drop it?

[Mockingword]

This would be assuming they didn't perform these acts under coercion (as in, they decided that it was more logical to engage in said acts rather than suffer the potential consequences by refusing).

If they're being coerced, then it doesn't matter if they refuse or not, because the coercer will like as not take what he wants regardless.

 

I would posit that, if they were beings of pure logic, as the lore suggests, they would recognise that in that moment, their best chances for avoiding harm lay in calling for help, running away or fighting back.

[Divine Justinia V]

I instantly regret coming in this thread. I wish this was less talked about.

[KaiserShep]

This is all Alrik's fault. BioWare should make a Dance on Ser Alrik's Grave DLC.

[AresKeith]

We're told two things about the Tranquil:

 

a ) They are logical.

 

b ) They will take action to preserve their own lives, and won't obey orders that would result in their death.

 

But the behaviour they demonstrate is not at all consistent with that information, at least not if the Thedosian conception of logic is the same as our own.

 

Owain's bumming around the storeroom while abominations try to break in from the upper floors is neither logical nor in the interests of his own self-preservation. Wynne expresses surprise that he didn't call out for help, and she's right to be surprised, because calling for help is what a logical person who wants to live would do. Calling for help carries a greater chance of survival than staying quiet possibly could. Nobody can save Owain if they don't know he's there.

 

So, either Owain is not logical, or he doesn't want to live.

 

 

Owain stated that he was at the barrier but chose to go back to storeroom because he felt it was safer for him to go there instead of luring demons and abominations by calling out to Wynne to open the barrier

[LobselVith8]

Owain stated that he was at the barrier but chose to go back to storeroom because he felt it was safer for him to go there instead of luring demons and abominations by calling out to Wynne to open the barrier

Owain said he preferred the storeroom, which is why the player finds him cleaning; he said absolutely nothing about demons or abominations when Wynne questioned him.

[AresKeith]

Owain said he preferred the storeroom, which is why the player finds him cleaning; he said absolutely nothing about demons or abominations when Wynne questioned him.

 

He wouldn't have to seeing as the entire area had them

[Master Warder Z_]

Owain said he preferred the storeroom, which is why the player finds him cleaning; he said absolutely nothing about demons or abominations when Wynne questioned him.

 

Yeah i'm certain the circle tower Library was just pleasant when he went there,  it wasn't as if it was filled with demons the moment the pc went into it.

[LobselVith8]

He wouldn't have to seeing as the entire area had them

And you know the area was in this condition when Owain went downstairs how, exactly?

[KainD]

But the behaviour they demonstrate is not at all consistent with that information, at least not if the Thedosian conception of logic is the same as our own.

 

This is the key to the discussion imo. Not only is the Thedosian concept of logic different, but the context of emotions is different as well, it is a setting in which both of these things do not directly compare to reality. 

[Master Warder Z_]

And you know the area was in this condition when Owain went downstairs how, exactly?

 

So you're of the mind they just magically popped up there? Sometime after Owain left, and before the PC entered?

 

Perhaps via teleportation!

 

Given Lore's stance on that shifting back and forth it might just be the case.

[Cainhurst Crow]

How would owain know anyone was on the other side of the barrier? Or if that was the case, they would violate the rules of the circle containment by breaching quarantine?

But enough about that. A new question I came up with when thinking how some mages react to the tranquil and view them is which group would treat them better, mages or templars. In my opinion, the mages might actually treat them worse, the reasoning being that the tranquil might creep them out due to how they were turned into tranquil. I wouldn't be surprised if the mages disregard tranquil opinions and concerns as being less worthy heading because of the creepiness factor.

[LobselVith8]

So you're of the mind they just magically popped up there? Sometime after Owain left, and before the PC entered?

Perhaps via teleportation!

Given Lore's stance on that shifting back and forth it might just be the case.

I'm of the mind that some posters, like you, are more interested in inserting figments of their imagination into the discussion, instead of discussing what's explicitly said.

Owain's only explanation for not altering Wynne that he was on the other side of the barrier is that he wanted to return to the storeroom. That's it.

No one discusses any threat that Owain might have faced; not Wynne, not even Owain. No one discusses any threats that Owain may have faced, or how he would have miraculously gone undetected to avoid such threats.

The fact that the dialogue had Wynne emphasis her disbelief that Owain didn't simply notify her he was on the other side, with Owain simply stating he wanted to return to the storeroom as his retort, doesn't seem to suggest any threat was the issue.

[Master Warder Z_]

How would owain know anyone was on the other side of the barrier? Or if that was the case, they would violate the rules of the circle containment by breaching quarantine?

But enough about that. A new question I came up with when thinking how some mages react to the tranquil and view them is which group would treat them better, mages or templars. In my opinion, the mages might actually treat them worse, the reasoning being that the tranquil might creep them out due to how they were turned into tranquil. I wouldn't be surprised if the mages disregard tranquil opinions and concerns as being less worthy heading because of the creepiness factor.

 

Given most expressed mage opinions resemble this reasoning, i could see it occurring.

 

Useful or no, Tranquil do often cause negative reaction in mages, whom is to say they would even take them with them? Never mind possible treatment of them? I mean given some mages are clearly of the opinion that death is better then tranquility and never even warrants tranquility, just like some of the Pro Mage group.

 

Maybe they would prefer be with folks that actually view them still as people?

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm of the mind that some posters, like you, are more interested in inserting figments of their imagination into the discussion, instead of discussing what's explicitly said.

Owain's only explanation for not altering Wynne that he was on the other side of the barrier is that he wanted to return to the storeroom. That's it.

No one discusses any threat that Owain might have faced; not Wynne, not even Owain. No one discusses any threats that Owain may have faced, or how he would have miraculously gone undetected to avoid such threats.

The fact that the dialogue had Wynne emphasis her disbelief that Owain didn't simply notify her he was on the other side, with Owain simply stating he wanted to return to the storeroom as his retort, doesn't seem to suggest any threat was the issue.

 

Yeah to me that seems like an opinion Lob, No more superior then my own

 

There is nothing there stating outright Owain physically reached the barrier, his literal in game words were he encountered a barrier, Encounter doesn't have to imply literally being five inches from it. And from Wynne's reaction, you figure she might actually notice that they had to fight their way through the Library to even reach the second floor so she could scold the Tranquil for returning to a safer spot?

 

Just because you're of the mind he decided to just randomly turn about rather then combat his way through bookshelves to even reach the barrier, doesn't make it so.

 

Perspective is merely that after all.

[LobselVith8]

How would owain know anyone was on the other side of the barrier? Or if that was the case, they would violate the rules of the circle containment by breaching quarantine?

It's a magical barrier, the kind that required a great deal of effort and concentration from the Senior Enchanter.

Wynne explicitly asks why Owain didn't simply tell her he was on the other side. Wynne also says she would have let him inside had he only spoken up.

But enough about that. A new question I came up with when thinking how some mages react to the tranquil and view them is which group would treat them better, mages or templars. In my opinion, the mages might actually treat them worse, the reasoning being that the tranquil might creep them out due to how they were turned into tranquil. I wouldn't be surprised if the mages disregard tranquil opinions and concerns as being less worthy heading because of the creepiness factor.

I'm sure the opinions about the tranquil will vary among many.