1433 réponses à ce sujet

[Ninja Stan]

Ohnenick wrote...

We are asked to avoid spam, ok. But then people get warned off because of empty quotes, totally disregarding the fact that this is often nothing other then an 'I agree completely'.

Even I consider this to be spam, Ohnenick. It's a quote without advancing the discussion. Even a short "I agree with this completely" would give some indication that a user isn't merely hitting quote and submit and being done with it.

People have been banned because they made a joke! Not an attack, not a tasteless jibe but a simple joke! And it wasn't one of the 'usual suspects' either. How do we avoid spam, when apparently almost everything can be considered spam now on a single persons whim?

All Moderators have to use their discretion to identify a rules violation and determine a suitable punishment. One of the differences between us named Mods and the BioWareMods is that they aren't here to be chummy and friendly and participate in discussions with you. They are here to enforce the rules. If you post something that can be considered to be a rules violation, then it might be caught and the poster punished. Good-natured ribbing is one thing, but I've seen some questionable comments in ME3 MP that make me wonder whether some of y'all are actually friends with one another!

Tone is difficult to convey through text, so sarcasm and some satire may not translate well and be viewed as serious. Keep in mind that story about the forumite somewhere who was banned because a Moderator misunderstood his use of the "I am 12 and what is this" meme. Not every Moderator will be up on the latest internet slang, memes, or trends.

And lots of people have been banned without the tiniest hint as to why and how long - yes I know the standard excuse for that is that the new mods don't know the tool, but this has been going on for weeks now. How long does it take to communicate to new staff the fact that No, they don't get send your report automatically?

This something I, at least, am working on communicating to the new Moderators. At least one of them on one of the accounts has gotten the message, but given the lack of communication, I'm pretty sure they don't all work in the same office together.

But the biggest problem overshadowing it all, imo, is the total lack of any kind of appeal system for the botmods. PM's get ignored, threads putting their decisions to question get deleted and the users banned. Hey, those guys are human (at least I think so;-)) and humans make mistakes. So there should be a way to address those potential mistakes. The lack of that is in my opinion the cause for approx. 90% of all the grievances in the MP forums atm. Because if they make 10 right decisions and 1 wrong one that isn't corrected, people will always remember and count the 1, not the 10. A lot of 1s will pile up to one huge amount of perceived injustices. And injustices, perceived or not, make for quite an effective banner to rally behind. Because why should I follow the rules if I think the other side doesn't or even changes the rules all the time to their daily whim?

You should follow the rules because if you choose to be a troublemaker out of spite, you will be seen as a troublemaker by us named Mods, who will then believe the BioWareMods' opinion of you is the correct one. Nothing good comes from blatantly flouting the Site Rules.

Perhaps Jessica Merizan can and will address this particular topic once she's done jet-setting around to all those conventions. I too wouldn't mind a standard procedure for addressing grievances with the BioWareMods being posted for everyone.

If Bioware would at least address this problem, things would get a lot more relaxed imo. But to be honest, I'm not optimistic about Bioware doing anything at this point. Best example is this thread. Didn't Jessica say something about 'rephrasing the popup' and 'working at a solution to the PM thing'? Maybe I didn't get the memo, but from were I'm sitting, nothing has changed.

Jessica has been off at conventions representing BioWare, the Community team, and supporting DAI this convention season.

[LPPrince]

If anything, we should be glad that Mrs. Merizan was off doing other things for a while.

She'll come back to a load of ideas/suggestions and can preen the best ones to utilize down the line, if changes are to come later.

[NuclearTech76]

Fair enough, Stan.

Message received. "We" (the Mods) will do whatever we feel like doing to "you" (the Community). We have no obligation to be fair, to play by the rules we set forth for the community because you have no rights on our board. We will ban you when we see fit even if you violate no specific rules. We will lock your build threads that you invest your time in making and testing in game. We will delete specific reported posts that we are too lazy to actually read. We will not even PM you about bans because you have no rights and do not matter in the least to us.

Awesome job by the way on totally wrecking the community, screwing your fans, and then telling them to enjoy it or ****** off. Real inspirational.

[DHKany]

Moderation has become a joke the past few months. People are being banned without rhyme or reason, threads are being locked and deleted more frequently than ever and most importantly the mods won't reply to any of our attempts to communicate with them.

I've been banned once now for 24 hours, for no apparent reason. I looked through all of my posts that I made that day and found nothing ban worthy in them either (except for maybe ONE smilie gif post). Messaged two moderators about it, and I didn't get a response then.

A month later I finally get a message from one of the mods saying I was banned for being 'offensive towards other forums members'. Unless funny gifs are considered offensive towards other forum members then I have no clue.

But ^ seems more like a case of "oh, someone used the report button, let's ban them", which has also been happening a lot more frequently.

This is a personal complaint of mine, but I think it illustrates the current state of BSN moderation perfectly. Completely soulless, mindless and illogical.

[Ninja Stan]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Fair enough, Stan.

Message received. "We" (the Mods) will do whatever we feel like doing to "you" (the Community). We have no obligation to be fair, to play by the rules we set forth for the community because you have no rights on our board. We will ban you when we see fit even if you violate no specific rules. We will lock your build threads that you invest your time in making and testing in game. We will delete specific reported posts that we are too lazy to actually read. We will not even PM you about bans because you have no rights and do not matter in the least to us.

Awesome job by the way on totally wrecking the community, screwing your fans, and then telling them to enjoy it or ****** off. Real inspirational.

Yup, that's exactly what I said and exactly the sarcastic, passive-aggressive tone in which I said it, NuclearTech76. So glad that my attempts at interaction and communication are appreciated and that your "side" of the argument is so willing to listen and debate this with maturity and civility. [/sarcasm]

[Ninja Stan]

DHKany wrote...

Moderation has become a joke the past few months. People are being banned without rhyme or reason, threads are being locked and deleted more frequently than ever and most importantly the mods won't reply to any of our attempts to communicate with them.

I've been banned once now for 24 hours, for no apparent reason. I looked through all of my posts that I made that day and found nothing ban worthy in them either (except for maybe ONE smilie gif post). Messaged two moderators about it, and I didn't get a response then.

Ban notifications are one issue on which I'm trying to get everyone on the same page. In the meantime, we named Moderators can give you the reason you were banned, if asked.

A month later I finally get a message from one of the mods saying I was banned for being 'offensive towards other forums members'. Unless funny gifs are considered offensive towards other forum members then I have no clue.

I frequently get PMs from banned users who don't believe any of their posts are offensive or violate any rules. Perhaps you don't find them offensive, but they might be considered inappropriate according to the Site Rules.

But ^ seems more like a case of "oh, someone used the report button, let's ban them", which has also been happening a lot more frequently.

This is a personal complaint of mine, but I think it illustrates the current state of BSN moderation perfectly. Completely soulless, mindless and illogical.

In addition to the many great reports I see, there are a few which make no sense. I've unfortunately had to warn or ban a handful of users for abusing the reporting system, which is there to report rules violations, not to tattle on users you simply don't like or posts you don't agree with. The "reason" and "notes" sections are also important so we Moderators know what we're looking for. Reporting a Moderator for "terrorist threats," one example I saw, is highly inappropriate, and reporting for "child solicitation" is a serious matter so that reason shouldn't be used as a joke.

The "reason" section of the report should be succinct about what we Moderators should be looking for when dealing with problems. It shouldn't be left blank unless you're willing for us to miss what you're reporting, and you needn't write an entire editorial detailing every little thing the reported user does or how you feel about it or a completel history of the interaction between you and the reported user.

[NuclearTech76]

Ninja Stan wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Fair enough, Stan.

Message received. "We" (the Mods) will do whatever we feel like doing to "you" (the Community). We have no obligation to be fair, to play by the rules we set forth for the community because you have no rights on our board. We will ban you when we see fit even if you violate no specific rules. We will lock your build threads that you invest your time in making and testing in game. We will delete specific reported posts that we are too lazy to actually read. We will not even PM you about bans because you have no rights and do not matter in the least to us.

Awesome job by the way on totally wrecking the community, screwing your fans, and then telling them to enjoy it or ****** off. Real inspirational.

Yup, that's exactly what I said and exactly the sarcastic, passive-aggressive tone in which I said it, NuclearTech76. So glad that my attempts at interaction and communication are appreciated and that your "side" of the argument is so willing to listen and debate this with maturity and civility. [/sarcasm]

As far as I'm aware of you and Raen are volunteer mods, I can respect that, I think your only compensation is your enjoyment of doing your jobs well for a product and company that you enjoy. Whatever your decisions whether right or wrong are done because you think they are best for the community and consistent with the rules. I don't always agree with those choices but I can usually at least see your thinking in making those choices. All of that said some of the moderators do not strive to make decisions for the good of the community. You could say some are lazy and some incite more problems with their decisions which are completely inconsistent with the rules of the board and the precedence of moderation in the past.

All we want is some "clear" guidelines and consistency in the moderation and to have a small bit of latitude to have some fun and expression.

[billy the squid]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Ohnenick wrote...

People have been banned because they made a joke! Not an attack, not a tasteless jibe but a simple joke! And it wasn't one of the 'usual suspects' either. How do we avoid spam, when apparently almost everything can be considered spam now on a single persons whim?

All Moderators have to use their discretion to identify a rules violation and determine a suitable punishment. One of the differences between us named Mods and the BioWareMods is that they aren't here to be chummy and friendly and participate in discussions with you. They are here to enforce the rules. If you post something that can be considered to be a rules violation, then it might be caught and the poster punished. Good-natured ribbing is one thing, but I've seen some questionable comments in ME3 MP that make me wonder whether some of y'all are actually friends with one another!

Tone is difficult to convey through text, so sarcasm and some satire may not translate well and be viewed as serious. Keep in mind that story about the forumite somewhere who was banned because a Moderator misunderstood his use of the "I am 12 and what is this" meme. Not every Moderator will be up on the latest internet slang, memes, or trends.

Well therein lies part of the problem. The interpretation of the rules requires context and flexibility; the bot mods application of the rules doesn't have to be chummy, but it does have to retain some flexibility.  You know as well as I that the site rules are hugely broad in scope and frankly anything mods don't like can come under the definition of spam. So as Bot mods are not tied to a particular account holder the application of the site rules can vary wildly, locking the Volus build help thread in the MP forums is a perfect example. 

It was created months ago, and it hadn't been posted in a couple of weeks, someone posts in it; a genuine post by the way, and it was locked. Really? Yes, technically it was necroing a thread and "spam" yet it has no bearing on the context of the necro. This is the problem with applying the rules, which are nebulous and left up to the mods, without regard to how the community functions.

This also goes for image spam, you know that there is a certain leeway for mucking about and having a laugh with silly pictures and memes popping up in the threads. You've also banned me enough times and for quite a while now for this kind of behaviour, honestly it doesn't really bother me, I know what I'm doing, but frankly if you were going to ban be for every infraction I've commited on here then I would have been banned more often. Which is the difference between the named mods and the Bot mods, the former knows when to let things go and allow some leeway the bot mods don't.

And yes not everyone in the MP forums gets on, there are trolls, like the intital Behind the Monitor thread,  and people who will engage in pissing matches (Although that's also why the Thunderdome thread and other challenge threads were created, but many were hit with lock down in the first wave) Yes I am guilty of trolling, but I try and restrict it to targeting the dicks of the forums and doing exactly what they do to everyone else back to them, even if I do get banned in the process.

Reporting becomes more a problem in the DA:I forums when the actual moderation of the posts has no leeway, frankly someone is going to get their panties in a twist, I see a lot of incoming "whaaaa he doesn't like what I like" or"Whaaa I find this offensive" and in come the bot mods and I quote "your comment may be inflammatory or offensive to some people, please post in a friendly manner" really, but calling people bigots who don't agree to everything no matter how stupid it is, that's okay.

Modifié par billy the squid, 07 août 2013 - 07:57 .

[Ninja Stan]

billy the squid wrote...

This also goes for image spam, you know that there is a certain leeway for mucking about and having a laugh with silly pictures and memes popping up in the threads. You've also banned me enough times and for quite a while now for this kind of behaviour, honestly it doesn't really bother me, I know what I'm doing, but frankly if you were going to ban be for every infraction I've commited on here then I would have been banned more often. Which is the difference between the named mods and the Bot mods, the former knows when to let things go and allow some leeway the bot mods don't.

You misunderstand, billy. The "leeway" you're referring to is an illusion created by our inability to see every post in every thread in every forum. WHat I am getting from your comment here is that I need to check out your posts more often, because you are apparently violating the rules far more often than I am seeing. As a volunteer Mod, I sometimes let something slide because I have other things to do or i'm busy dealing with other issues. The BioWareMods, because this is their only job here, don't have that luxury.

And yes not everyone in the MP forums gets on, there are trolls, like the intital Behind the Monitor thread,  and people who will engage in pissing matches (Although that's also why the Thunderdome thread and other challenge threads were created, but many were hit with lock down in the first wave) Yes I am guilty of trolling, but I try and restrict it to targeting the dicks of the forums and doing exactly what they do to everyone else back to them, even if I do get banned in the process. 

Again, not caring if you get banned and announcing that you're flouting the rules doesn't help reduce the level of moderation. I'm all for people having fun in the forums and making new friends and chatting about BioWare and games and such, but when you unabashedly gloat about your rule-breaking, in a post where you are trying to convince me that Moderators should maybo tone things down, I tend to think that you just want to be able to break whatever rules you like without being called on it. I might be convinced were it not for the interactions you and I have had in the past.

[billy the squid]

Stan pls.

It's hardly gloating. I know what I do sometimes skirts the rules and breaks them, but that's also why I don't complain when I do get banned, I know what I'm doing and it is breaking the rules even if I give people a laugh in the process.And as I don't post with the frequency of other posters, it's probably why you don't see me as much, that and a big time difference.

I'm not complaining about how rules apply to me, I'm complaining that other threads with no spam and people who don't behave in a similar way that has earned me bans have been hit by the Bot mods, but on some fairly limp reasoning. Actually I've not been banned by them at all, so what does that convey regarding the moderation!

I think it's illustrative, that when you have people who have a, lets say spotty track record, on the forums have been largely unaffected and we don't get banned. But, those who are actually constructive even while joking have been getting banned, then it's clear that it's a problem isn't the level, it's how its applied

And the leeway is an illusion? Come on Stan, you've been in threads, when there's been image spam and off topic discussion and you don't ban everyone doing it nor edit every post guilty of it. Nor do you lock the thread outright. I've seen you give warnings and delete some of the worst excesses, that just doesn't happen outside of the named mods, they're more likely to apply the rules to the letter, which after a while starts to chafe when such moderation catches other genuine posts and light hearted joking, even if technically strict application would consider it off topic, it's like the Volus help thread, necro... well yes, but it's there to help new players who may want to ask questions.

If I wanted to break whatever rules I wanted, then the level of moderation wouldn't stop me. It didn't stop me before and it's not stopping me now, which is the point. The image spams, porn gifs episode and massive spam after the PM implementation wasn't curtailed by new moderating levels, so what does the level of moderating have to do with that?

People are going to break the rules at some point, and the community will never truly moderate itself, there aren't the powers to do that. I saw the moderation as a way to restrain the worst excesses of the community, when things have got out of control and have taken a rather sour turn. Hell I haven't minded when the rules were implemented in more strictly, after a period of high spam etc.

Modifié par billy the squid, 07 août 2013 - 08:41 .

[Ninja Stan]

billy the squid wrote...

And the leeway is an illusion? Come on Stan, you've been in threads, when there's been image spam and off topic discussion and you don't ban everyone doing it nor edit every post guilty of it. Nor do you lock the thread outright. I've seen you give warnings and delete some of the worst excesses,

That takes a lot of time and effort, which I could have spent making my rounds rather than dealing with just one thread. I really dislike having to deal wtih those kinds of threads because it's a lot of cross-posting and notating and messaging. THe banned/warned user needs to be notified, their ban info needs to be filled out, their post has to be removed/edited, and their account and ban info needs to be posted to our Super Seekrit Mods forum. Multiply that by the number of users who need to be dealt with, and you can see why we don't want to have to do that all the time. It's also why I encourage users to not perpetuate spam or troll threads, and why Rule #6 was implemented. This is a discussion forum.

that just doesn't happen outside of the named mods, they're more likely to apply the rules to the letter, which after a while starts to chafe when such moderation catches other genuine posts and light hearted joking, even if technically strict application would consider it off topic, it's like the Volus help thread, necro... well yes, but it's there to help new players who may want to ask questions.

It's unfortunate, but remember that those are the rules that you agreed to follow and be governed by when you signed up. I'm not saying "shut up and deal with it," but the BioWareMods are enforcing them rather strictly, so for the time being (while we debate the issue and come up with better solutions), you might want to err on the side of following the letter of the rules where possible. The Community Team has a lot of ideas they may not have the time or money to implement, we named Moderators have been advocating on your behalf behind the scenes, and forum admin is super busy during convention season.

We're not going to come to any kind of agreement right away, but as long as we can keep talking to each other, we may be able to find a solution that we can all tolerate.

[DragonRacer]

From a friend who was banned for an incredibly tenuous reason (I assume the post he references was considered "off topic" or "spam", as that is becoming a catch-all excuse for some of the most eyebrow-raising bans I have seen... and been a victim of... lately):

me0120 wrote...
"I was banned for 48 hours for the last post I made in the thread found here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16672239/5 All I did was compliment her profile picture which, although off topic, is the very definition of "Be excellent to each other." All other posts I made that day were ME3 MP related in every way. If I want to give someone a compliment am I supposed to add them as a friend and then PM them? How awkward would it be to add someone and compliment them like that?

I must say that I at least got a PM from Bot 4, for which I am thankful. 48 hours for such an infraction is hard for me to wrap my head around, and I have never had a warning." 

I understand a lot of where you're coming from, Stan. You, along with Raen, should know by now that I generally have no grievance with the named mods and that I respect what you have to do, which is police the boards and not be buddies with us. It is a thankless job.

However, when people are getting slapped with bans for complimenting an avatar or making one harmless joke, what kind of atmosphere does that create? I understand that things are to remain on-topic and that some threads have gone wildly crazy with shenanigans in the past, but this swing of the pendulum is waaaaaaaaaay too far in the other direction.

Speaking honestly for myself, I am not one of the "usual suspects". I am an upstanding citizen on the boards, creating helpful threads (such as the Resource Library in my signature) and otherwise contributing positively in others. I have literally only been banned twice... once for being stupid (and not understanding the rules) a year ago and contributing to a quote pyramid (something you may note I have never done again on the forums)... and just last Friday, for making a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek joke in a thread. One off-topic post (which I'd argue was technically on-topic for the topic at hand) and suddenly I'm banned for 24 hours.

I am actually becoming fearful of posting on the forum anymore. If one joke out of hundreds of positive posts is unacceptable, that's just... that just seems very extreme. I'd understand it more if I was a rampant trouble-maker. But that just blew my mind. And makes me afraid of how many more casual jokes would eventually lead to a permaban, which honestly would crush me because I *love* being a positive force in this community. But if even *I* am afraid to speak openly anymore... what does that say about the current atmosphere?

Modifié par DragonRacer, 08 août 2013 - 01:43 .

[w0lfam0da1s]

I am not one to say much on the boards or in groups. With that said ... I will say that I've seen a lot of ban's being handed out even in the helpful threads and some of them threads topics are no longer accessible due to them being deleted. They even move them to this part of the board under "Off Topic" and then later are deleted or locked. More so things are being deleted.

Yes you are going to have people who will cause trouble and skirt the rules. But this is a social network and with that a wide verity of people from many different countries and age groups.

Even so many of us do some form of tongue and cheek jokes & just like to talk casually to each other. Like we would for the most part in Real Life. When you take that away form us and force us to have to "Friend" everyone just to talk to them about something that may be considered "off topic" and this may only be a one time thing you want to do because its a "help me" question you want to ask you end up with a bigger mess.

I also want to point out that I am not on who writes a lot when I do post.. this for me is way beyond my norm.


I read more on here then I do post. I read a lot of the different topic and try to read them all the way to the end but sometimes when reading I'll see a post by someone that I want to reply to and as such use the quote button.

Now when doing so I find myself trying to fill my response with more then a few words and in such causes me to take the long way to get to my point. When ALL I wanted to do was tell the person I was quoting that they made a good point and maybe do some kind of bold underline of what part of the quote I was talking about.

I find that to be .. tedious to write and write stuff just to tell someone good job. Because if its less or a smile face then it can be a be considered span and then a ban is handed out.

The thing is everything on this form can now be considered spam or some other form of banable offence.

Just look at this topic..

It is full of people quoting others .. and let alone the name of the topic at that is considered banable.

If it was made by a user that isn't a Mod then all kinds of ban's would be handed out and the topic locked or most likely deleted. Even with it being in the "Off topic" spot.

I'm just saying that this topic is a example of why people get banned and there threads deleted.

I can't think of more to say as I've already said so much.

Hope I don't get banned for this being to short or "off topic"

Have a good day.

[Ninja Stan]

Good to hear from both a regular non-"usual suspect" and a longtime lurker in this discussion. Thanks, DragonRacer and w0lfam0da1s.

[DaveT]

Personally, I have never been banned. However, until there are clear rules to follow that I can firmly understand "this is over the line" and "this is ok" without needing to get a ruling from the judges, then I'm choosing not to participate in the forums (reading or posting).

If that is the effect that BSN wants to achieve, then congratulations, you have succeeded beyond your expectations.

[me0120]

Thanks for your time Ninja Stan. Even if you might not be able to directly do anything about it, it helps having someone official to talk to.

Too much inconsistency is the problem I have with the unnamed mods. I guess that's to be expected when it's a group of people who take turns.

[Angrywolves]

Speaking of numbered mods, Mod0001 closed a sticky thread on the Game Informer info.
You don't close sticky threads.
Ignorance of that is no excuse.

[TheRealJayDee]

As I believe I've said more than once in the past - I appreciate your presence and effort, Stan, but I seriously think what you're doing here can't and shouldn't be your job, but instead that of, I don't know, those who get paid by Bioware/EA to interact with the community.

Like, well, Jessica Merizan, whom I believe to be a great and dedicated person, but who isn't that much present here on the BSN (correct me if I'm totally mistaken, I'm not that often here as I used to myself). I get that she has a lot of stuff to do in the real world, but in that case someone else should be left in charge of the BSN. Someone who isn't a squad of anonymous numbered mods who don't seem to know the BSN at all and who... don't communicate.

Also, yeah, closing down the stickied DA:I Game Informer thread was a bad move. Just tell us not to mention LPPrince's gorgeous hair again and all is good. This thread was full of useful infos and, for the most part, a level of positivity that Bioware should be seriously happy about. Open that thread!

[Ninja Stan]

Angrywolves wrote...

Speaking of numbered mods, Mod0001 closed a sticky thread on the Game Informer info.
You don't close sticky threads.
Ignorance of that is no excuse.

Moderators can and do close Sticky threads if they've served their purpose or if they are no longer on-topic. A thread is made Sticky because it is a popular or "official" discussion of a popular topic, and so it won't fall off the front page of the forum. It does not mean it's immune to the rules or unStickying.

Your desire to criticize BioWare has blinded you to common sense this time, Angrywolves.

[Ninja Stan]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

As I believe I've said more than once in the past - I appreciate your presence and effort, Stan, but I seriously think what you're doing here can't and shouldn't be your job, but instead that of, I don't know, those who get paid by Bioware/EA to interact with the community.

Like, well, Jessica Merizan, whom I believe to be a great and dedicated person, but who isn't that much present here on the BSN (correct me if I'm totally mistaken, I'm not that often here as I used to myself). I get that she has a lot of stuff to do in the real world, but in that case someone else should be left in charge of the BSN. Someone who isn't a squad of anonymous numbered mods who don't seem to know the BSN at all and who... don't communicate.

Thanks, JayDee, but the only person actually "paid to interact with the community" is Jessica, and the community she is paid to interact with encompasses the entire community all over the world, not just BSN posters. As such, especially in the summer, Jessica has her hands full with convention planning, sitting on panels and presentations, interacting with fans at events, and dividing her non-convention time between BioWare Edmonton and EA, probably Los Angeles.

Sorry, you're stuck with us named Mods.

Also, yeah, closing down the stickied DA:I Game Informer thread was a bad move. Just tell us not to mention LPPrince's gorgeous hair again and all is good. This thread was full of useful infos and, for the most part, a level of positivity that Bioware should be seriously happy about. Open that thread!

Or you can re-start the thread/discussion and encourage others to not wax poetic about LPPrince's gorgeous, enviable locks. Positivity is good, I agree, but positivity should be what we're all about and what we bring to every thread, even when we disagree.

[Ziegrif]

As a guy who likes to chat around and try to bring light hearted humor into discussions from which I got banned once and I toned it down considerably after that ban. Nowadays I kinda don't feel safe posting in the ME3MP forums, kind of paranoid of getting banned for even the slightest of infractions.

On the DA:I forums a couple of opportune humorous quips here and there work and seem safer due to more named mod presence and developer presence. Even if the BWNumberedMods are just doing their job and are not supposed to get chummy with us it also turns moderation into... well an impersonal affair.

Only reason I toned down my behavior is because Stan and Raen discussed it with me. Well Raen did IIRC, I think I just responded to it better when there's a face behind the judge, jury and the parole officer. >.>

BTW might aswell just ask here. Could we have a General Chat thread in the MP section and DA:I and other sections? Best thing to do would be to take it to Off topic but it feels like every board has their dedicated regulars and I don't see that much overlap between boards. So 1 general thread where people could just chum it up to me that'd be greeeeaaaat. Granted it'd end up becoming HUGE if it picked off but it'd be a place to direct stuff considered spam. Maybe overlook some image posts. Just had the idea when I saw one at the TF2 forums.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 09 août 2013 - 11:28 .

[Ohnenick]

Firstly, thanks again Stan for taking the time and actually discussing stuff here. I can get behind a lot of what you have said. And I freely admit that I have no mentionable forum experience aside from BSN. I like being here and I´d like that to remain so in the future.

But I think you misunderstood a part of my earlier post.

Ninja Stan wrote...
You should follow the rules because if you choose to be a troublemaker out of spite, you will be seen as a troublemaker by us named Mods, who will then believe the BioWareMods' opinion of you is the correct one. Nothing good comes from blatantly flouting the Site Rules.

I wasn´t threatening to willfully disobey site rules. My point was that a lot people are feeling that they are being treated unfairly. Granted those guys were always around but before onlookers just thought "well you were deservedly caught and now you´re complaining about it". But at the moment when those same people complain (and they are not the only ones who do that, mind you), onlookers nod sagely and condemn the oppression. Granted I use those pictures in exaggeration to make my point, but the underlying problem is the same. Where before you had rabble-rousers and BSNers ignoring them, you now have rabble-rousers and users smpathetic to them. However that pans out in the long run, I doubt it will have a positive effect on the community.

Ninja Stan wrote...
Tone is difficult to convey through text, so sarcasm and some satire may not translate well and be viewed as serious. Keep in mind that story about the forumite somewhere who was banned because a Moderator misunderstood his use of the "I am 12 and what is this" meme. Not every Moderator will be up on the latest internet slang, memes, or trends.

This is an excellent point and exactly the reason I want a reliable appeal system. If I get banned, because someone misunderstood a post or didn´t get the whole context, I want a chance to clear it up. Firstly because prior bans might give a mod judging my later posts the wrong idea about me. And secondly because receiving an injustice makes me steam. Getting the chance to address that injustice relieves pressure. Being totally ignored about it increases steam to rage. Rage makes a poor advisor for future posting in the forum or respecting the people moderating it.

Please understand that I write this as someone who yet has not personally experienced the above thing. I´ve only ever been banned once and I totally deserved that. But I see others fuming about stuff and I can understand where they are coming from.

In your posts in this thread, your prevailing advice to all is "Do not break the rules". This would be sound advice, the problem is however, that we often have no idea anymore, where the rules draw the line. I do get the general gist of "read the guidelines", but that is not what I mean.

Constructive posters that have no history of getting previously banned and are generally helpfull members of the community have actually (in private discussions) stated to the fact that they almost don´t dare post on the main forums anymore, as they have no idea anymore what could bring down the banhammer and what would be save to post.

There was a reasonably clear line before the age of the Bot-Mods. But now - speaking figuratively again - , we retreated 10 clicks behind the line, only to see the same line jumping back and forth all around us. As others have allready said, the Bot-Mods act so... randomly... for want of a better word, that we have no clear line anymore.

So following your advice at the moment would mean not posting anything even remotely entertaining and stick to the purely technical stuff of game-mechanics and the occasional "what would we like for further games" stuff. This seems to be the only completely safe option.

But is a technical plattform for game mechanics only really the thing Bioware aims for with it's "Social" network? And would people really stay onboard for only that?

I do not try to paint the mods as the bad guys here, but I think the "whoever gets slapped deserved it and should deal with it" appraoch is - for all it's appealing simplicity - equally flawed.

But I have seen, that you in your above posts showed at least some understanding as to what bothers folks and that makes me more optimistic for now. I really think that implementing a working process for addressing questionable mod decisions would alleviate much of the current pains.

Thank you again for your time and input.

Modifié par Ohnenick, 09 août 2013 - 01:43 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Sorry, you're stuck with us named Mods.

Doomed...!

Seriously, though, I'm generally happy with the named mods. But sometimes I feel we'd need more, urm, "real" Bioware presence here.

Thanks, JayDee, but the only person actually "paid to interact with the community" is Jessica, and the community she is paid to interact with encompasses the entire community all over the world, not just BSN posters. As such, especially in the summer, Jessica has her hands full with convention planning, sitting on panels and presentations, interacting with fans at events, and dividing her non-convention time between BioWare Edmonton and EA, probably Los Angeles.

And that's kind of the point - the Bioware community is vast and hopefully will only grow over time, and there is ONE person officially dedicated to communicating with it (and, as you might know, I felt that communication was already lacking during the ME3 days when it was her and Evil Chris). Normally I guess it would be okay these days, with the huge ME3 discussions over and the DA:I forum still in it's infancy, but with stuff like the ongoing PM restrictions and the BioWareMod# account users -how to put this politely?- still in their learning phase it would be great to have the feeling that "official Bioware" has an eye on what's up here on the BSN and an open ear for the problems of the users. Because while the BSN is admittedly only a fraction of the community it's still, well, part of the community.

But then again I'm mostly only hanging out in off-topic these days, and it's cool there, so whatevs...

[w0lfam0da1s]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Good to hear from both a regular non-"usual suspect" and a longtime lurker in this discussion. Thanks, DragonRacer and w0lfam0da1s.

Your welcome.. and thank you for taking the time to respond to what people say. 

Modifié par w0lfam0da1s, 09 août 2013 - 03:32 .