33 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

So lets discuss character development.

 

I for one am picky when it comes to characters, unless they are very good written. To me their alignment are somewhat irrelevant as long as their development and cause for them are written well. That's what important to my eyes and in a postmodern society novels, movies and games with such characters are the most successful. The time for medieval epics is over, nothing is black or white, everything is grey.

 

That said Miranda Lawson was the perfection of character and development of one. If not the best, she is one of the best written characters of all time. I praise the people responsible. I think Inquisition needs more character developments like her. I'm not saying copy her of course but be creative and follow the rules of a good character.

 

Thoughts?

[Grieving Natashina]

<sigh>  I hate unexplained ME references in an OP.  No offense Lulu.

 

Could you please at least explain Miranda and what about her you liked?  I know it's a ME reference, but it needs more context in the DA:I forum.  I have no idea what's she's like, since I've never played any of the Mass Effect games at all.  Or could you please use an example from Dragon Age?

 

As for the rest of your post, give me a bit to think on it and I'll get back to you.

[Divine Justinia V]

Miranda Lawson will always be a personal favorite for me.

 

I think Cassandra will have an extraordinary story and I'm very excited to see what will be in store for her.

[Mockingword]

Miranda? Really? Considering that she was genetically engineered to be 'perfect', she seemed really dumb to me. Literally everything Cerberus and The Illusive Man are involved in exposes them as unethical, corrupt incompetents, but she just blocks her ears, going "Lalalaaaa, I can't hear you, Cerberus 4eva", right up until they stab her in her well-toned ass.

 

I found her, and most of the cast of Mass Effect, for that matter, to be pretty dull. With the exception of Kaidan, Liara and Mordin.

 

Wrex and Grunt are okay too, I guess. And Jack got better.

 

But overall, I wouldn't hold the ME trilogy up as the pinnacle of good characterisation.

[Divine Justinia V]

Miranda? Really? Considering that she was genetically engineered to be 'perfect', she seemed really dumb to me. Literally everything Cerberus and The Illusive Man are involved in exposes them as unethical, corrupt incompetents, but she just blocks her ears, going "Lalalaaaa, I can't hear you, Cerberus 4eva", right up until they stab her in her well-toned ass.

 

I found her, and most of the cast of Mass Effect, for that matter, to be pretty dull. With the exception of Kaidan, Liara and Mordin.

 

Wrex and Grunt are okay too, I guess. And Jack got better.

 

But overall, I wouldn't hold the ME trilogy up as the pinnacle of good characterisation.

Did you not finish ME2 and not play ME3, or...??

[Mockingword]

 

Did you not finish ME2 and not play ME3, or...??

I did. But Miranda had already been working for Cerberus for years by that point. She's not the brightest.

 

Not that a character needs to be "smart" to be "well-developed". But Miranda's entire character arc is just "becoming slightly less mean".

[Divine Justinia V]

I did. But Miranda had already been working for Cerberus for years by that point. She's not the brightest.

 

Not that a character needs to be "smart" to be "well-developed". But Miranda's entire character arc is just "becoming slightly less mean".

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, this isn't the time and place to get into a debate about her and her character arc but I do disagree with you.

[volaticus]

I too am pretty picky about character development, l won't go into the debate of Miranda, but for me a good character is a believable one. I just hope that Varric doesn't become a charactercher of himself as I really likes his development in DAII he had a lot of mystery to him. As for the others, good character development for me is a character that remains within their cannon personality, regardless of how amoral/immoral/or moral they (I half expect the elf guy to be full of sass.)

[Ruairi46]

Loghains character development is sexy as fu**. Take a page out of his character development book and it'l be A ok.

[Star fury]

Miranda's assets were perfect, I agree. DA2 had Isabela so we don't need to worry, we will get more character development like that in DAI.

[Lulupab]

<sigh>  I hate unexplained ME references in an OP.  No offense Lulu.

 

Could you please at least explain Miranda and what about her you liked?  I know it's a ME reference, but it needs more context in the DA:I forum.  I have no idea what's she's like, since I've never played any of the Mass Effect games at all.  Or could you please use an example from Dragon Age?

 

As for the rest of your post, give me a bit to think on it and I'll get back to you.

 

I would hate to spoil it. You should witness her glory yourself  

 

She is designed to be perfect genetically yet even she admits that she is as human as next person when it comes to life. One of the most favorite female characters of ME envies her for that matter.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Loghains character development is sexy as fu**. Take a page out of his character development book and it'l be A ok.

 

My only gripe with this is that a lot of things he does - or are attributed to him - are seemingly random, out of character, or just not explained that well. The whole character arc is pretty much Guy du Bas-Tyra from the Midkemia books - someone who's loyalty to the nation as a whole makes them do things that are personally distasteful, but have (generally) good intentions and an underling who goes too far. The problem is that most of Loghain's backstory is in the side materials and not in the game itself, making him much harder to sympathize with.

 

I still like Loghain, especially given that it's one of the few villains Bioware has done as of late that doesn't dip into the "mind controlled somehow" well. Not all villains need to have that kind of depth or be gray-area, but yeesh.

[Iron Fist]

I want Cassandra to gradually become less armored, as she becomes more comfortable around my Inquisitor.

 

My intentions are pure, I swear. 

[renfrees]

I want Cassandra to gradually become less armored, as she becomes more comfortable around my Inquisitor.

 

My intentions are pure, I swear. 

Do you also want Vivienne to gradually cut her nails? For purely practical reasons, of course.

[Iron Fist]

Do you also want Vivienne to gradually cut her nails? For purely practical reasons, of course.

 

My conception of practicality amounts to anything that enables a more satisfying and loving relationship.

 

If her nails are a hindrance to that goal, then I hope they will magically retract (like cat claws) over time. 

[KainD]

To me their alignment are somewhat irrelevant as long as their development and cause for them are written well. 

 

Development is not a necessary path, it works for some but not for all. To be fair, my favorite video game characters don't have any development. 

[luckycooky]

Well do had more time this time so i think we geth characters more like orgins. at least i hope so.

 

Alistar was Writting realy well.

same from Morrigan 

and Loghain i did not read side matrial but but was realy refreshing to had villian like that. 

and the other members were good aswel 

 

i did not have play Mass effect so if have no clue on who she is.

 

so i dont worry alot on this point

[Mes]

UGH. I know I'm in the minority, but I did NOT like Miranda. At first I thought she had potential, but by the end I just got tired of her complaining about how physically and intellectually perfect she was. And I also got sick of her talking about her "sistah" on and on and on. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I know that someone's least favorite character is always someone else's favorite of all time. I love Alistair to bits, but a lot of other people find him whiny. 

 

Anyway, I'm actually not sure if I can name a character from ME or DA that has actually "developed". Maybe Kaidan... but more in terms of his relationship with Sheploo (favorite romance  ) than anything else.

 

I suppose I'd like to see some character development for the Inquisitor. 

[spirosz]

That said Miranda Lawson was the perfection of character and development of one. If not the best, she is one of the best written characters of all time. I praise the people responsible. I think Inquisition needs more character developments like her. I'm not saying copy her of course but be creative and follow the rules of a good character.

 

Thoughts?

 

So going from "I'm not here to be your friend" to "Oh, let me be all bubbly and open with you" the next time you see her... is perfection of development? 

 

 

Oh, you're serious - anyway, just going to disagree about your perspective about her specific development, though I do love her character, I just find that aspect a bit sketchy.  

 

In terms of PC development, that all depends on the way the story unfolds and if Bioware wants to includ the so called "World" in changing behaviours/reactivity based off how and what the PC does throughout, that can tie heavily to the development of many things, from personality, their outlook, how the react to the world and individuals, etc.  If I was to suggest anything, I would state that Bioware should always keep in mind what is happening around the PC and work off of developing the character that makes sense in the "now", based off of the actual player's interactivity with the game itself.

 

And please no "forced emotions" - I'm all for that whole cinematic approach Bioware has had in the past few years, but I would love to have input on if my character is going to react, I could care less about the "flow" of the scenes, I care more about the depth Bioware is willing to give to the player, regardless of how much illusion is needed.  

[AresKeith]

That said Miranda Lawson was the perfection of character and development of one. If not the best, she is one of the best written characters of all time. I praise the people responsible. I think Inquisition needs more character developments like her. I'm not saying copy her of course but be creative and follow the rules of a good character.

 

Thoughts?

 

As much as I liked Miranda, she is nowhere near close to the perfection of character development

[spirosz]

Anyway, I'm actually not sure if I can name a character from ME or DA that has actually "developed". Maybe Kaidan... 

 

I would argue that Jack has some of the better development throughout the series, again depending on how you interactive with her, but better being the key word, since her development is somewhat more appreciated if you romance her, which I wish wasn't the case, but hey - lack of resources, importance, etc.  Again, the OP is not talking about companions and is asking about the PC - so that really depends on the story being told and what Bioware decides should be the case because at the end of the day, the Inquisitor's development will never be soley based off how we perceive, but what Bioware chooses to show us and more importantly, let us have a say in.   

[spirosz]

I can argue that many "Wardens" can be different, etc - but differences don't tend to dive that deep down the rabbit hole, in terms of complex differences. 

[Mes]

I would argue that Jack has some of the better development throughout the series, again depending on how you interactive with her, but better being the key word, since her development is somewhat more appreciated if you romance her, which I wish wasn't the case, but hey - lack of resources, importance, etc.  Again, the OP is not talking about companions and is asking about the PC - so that really depends on the story being told and what Bioware decides should be the case because at the end of the day, the Inquisitor's development will never be soley based off how we perceive, but what Bioware chooses to show us and more importantly, let us have a say in.   

 

Oh whoops I missed the part about this thread being about the PC, ha!

 

Yeah you bring up a good point - a lot of these potential character developments or, at least, deeper interactions, are only available to those you romance. I'd love to have a companion as my best friend, and those resulting interactions surpassing any other relationship. Just as an option.

[spirosz]

Yeah you bring up a good point - a lot of these potential character developments or, at least, deeper interactions, are only available to those you romance. I'd love to have a companion as my best friend, and those resulting interactions surpassing any other relationship. Just as an option.

 

Me too. 

[JCFR]

"That said Miranda Lawson was the perfection of character and development of one. If not the best, she is one of the best written characters of all time. I praise the people responsible. I think Inquisition needs more character developments like her. I'm not saying copy her of course but be creative and follow the rules of a good character."  - you think?  Well... i must say, first time i agreed with Jack: Cheerleader.

 

For me, the best written Charakters are still Minsk and Viconia of Baldur's Gate 2. BEST EVER!

In DAO i liked the haughty Morrigan - reminded me of viconia. Leliana... well even though most people liked her more, to me she was... too sweet. Like: Oh please, my theeth are already starting to hurt from all that sugar and honey - just stop it!

Sten? BOOORING and Annoying as hell - went on my nerves fromthe first to the last second. Orgrim? Funy but i liked varicks sarcasm more.Anders? Stereotype and clichee.  Isabella? Her raunchy, saucy behavior made me snicker many times - i liked her.  Fenris? Oh geez... not another fanatic  wannabe A**hole with a tragical past.  Merril? Same problem as with leliana... and the extent of her naivity made me stumble - hard at the limit of plain stupid.  Aveline?  i could sympathise with her... but why had the develeopers have to make her look so manly?  Sebastian? Religious guys are not the kind of ones i like to have around. Alister? Okay but he definetly lacked backbones. Wynne? A female wannabe-gandalf but not as much interesting.

 

A charakter i would like to see again would be Velanna from Awakenings - way more interesting than Merril.

 

In general i think the charakter developement is on a good way in the DA-series. DAO: Shallow. Just a few textlines and mostly giving gifts. DA2: A bit deeper with special npc-questlines and some personal talks... but there's still room for improvement. Mostly because of the dialog system. Getting someones friendship just by telling them what they want to hear is not how it should be nowadays. Just three options in DA2 (good, bad and neutral... and too often neutral was the most fun)?

I so often wished, to go into more detail in discusions or pose a counterquestion, so that talks would not just end with agreeing, disagreeing or literally saying "whatever".