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[ShadowLordXII]

To me the only point that needs be made is number two. She had power and abdicated that to her father despite basically running the country for her husband.

 

I'd guess that the deal-maker on OP point 2 would depend on whether you believe Anora should be held accountable for letting Loghain run the country into the ground when all evidence suggests that she'd be better off doing it herself.

 

It comes down to one of two things: She couldn't run the country after Cailan died and is therefore a bit full of herself when she states that she was the power behind Cailan's throne or She could've easily handled things, but choose to let her father become regent and we all know just how quickly and deeply far south that idea went.

 

As far as the PC double-standard on deception and treachery, I can't speak for that as I've never really played characters that were quite so back stab-happy. One play-through ended up killing Wynne after she freaked out when I agreed with Cullen without necessarily deciding to wipe out the mages and points 3 and 4 are more about the perspective of the situation rather than the PC being the "Maker's gift to Ferelden."

 

At that point in time, there is no doubt that the Warden is Ferelden's only hope for the ravaged nation, the one figure who is now on the verge of uniting the country against the Blight...and Anora will backstab you without regard for how it is a roadblock to Ferelden's future. Why? Because she wants to be queen and she wants daddy to escape justice. Yet, I'm supposed to support her bid for power?

 

The Dwarves, Dalish, and Mage Wardens likely wouldn't care; but the more Ferelden centered protagonists (Tabris and Cousland) would surely at least be wary of Anora just like with Loghain.

[Cat Lance]

I was agreeing with the op's estimation that her willing abdication of power to her father is a huge point against her. Then when you get into what he I'd with that power... Just gets worse.

[ShadowLordXII]

I was agreeing with the op's estimation that her willing abdication of power to her father is a huge point against her. Then when you get into what he I'd with that power... Just gets worse.

 

True, though some would argue that Anora didn't have any power at all which is suspect in itself.

[Mike3207]

True, though some would argue that Anora didn't have any power at all which is suspect in itself.

Well to me a great deal counts on which is true-did Anora name her father the Regent or did he seize power. If she named her father the regent, then she has to accept some culpability in all the things that Loghain did that year. If he seized power, than it's really all on Loghain.

[Cat Lance]

Well to me a great deal counts on which is true-did Anora name her father the Regent or did he seize power. If she named her father the regent, then she has to accept some culpability in all the things that Loghain did that year. If he seized power, than it's really all on Loghain.

It still comes down to her doing nothing to retain stewardship. She could have immediately called a Landsmeet to cement her own power, yet she did not.

Whether she shares directly in the blame for what Loghain and Howe did with the power they grabbed is a further discussion.

I'm merely pointing out that no matter how they attained it, she did not move against it. This does not inspire confidence in her as a leader. At least, to me.

[Cat Lance]

So fear might not have been a motivation of hers? Going against a beloved and respected general who in the eyes of many can do no wrong might not, if you were in her shoes, keep you from moving against him? Even Eamon who seems to carry more weight than her in the landsmeet will not do it without you doing as much as you can against Loghain because without that you cannot win against him. You must have support. She is alone. What support does she have? And those who go against him get assassins sent after them. Also, it is her father. Would you make a move against your own father who is a well loved and respected general?

I didn't say she might not have had her own reasons. However, I would expect a leader to put the people first. As well to do everything that they could. It does not make her a bad person, it does make her a bad fit for queen in my eyes. *shrugs* It's merely how I see it.
*edit: sheash this site and my phone do not get along!

[Mike3207]

Well, was she Queen Regnant or Queen Consort? If she was Queen Regnant, than she would have had equal power to Cailan and could have acted after his death to do whatever she wished. If she was Queen Consort, she's technically a Queen in name only and has limited power until the Landsmeet acts to confirm her as Queen in her own right.The lack of action she takes lead me to believe she was a Queen Consort.

[Cat Lance]

I think we'll just have to agree that we don't.

[Corker]

Out surfing around and found this post on Tumblr. Looks to be a transcription of some ancient BSN thread, and includes Bioware writers chiming in on The Nature of Anora.

 

EDIT: Oh hey, the post had a link to the original thread that I missed.  Sources!

[ShadowLordXII]

Out surfing around and found this post on Tumblr. Looks to be a transcription of some ancient BSN thread, and includes Bioware writers chiming in on The Nature of Anora.

 

EDIT: Oh hey, the post had a link to the original thread that I missed.  Sources!

 

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with the writers on Anora being justified in betraying you to save her father. But only because she's essentially supporting a status quo that's going to eventually bring Ferelden to ruin and because there is no logical basis after everything that she's seen and learned about Loghain.

 

Emotionally, it's a little identifiable. But this is the ruler of a country that we're talking about, a ruler who shouldn't let personal feelings and emotional bias interfere with her duty as a ruler. Some will argue that Anora is human and therefore, it's natural to defend family. But all of the other hundreds of thousands of Fereldens are people too with their own families. Is she really willing to put all of them at risk to support her father and yet still believes that she's doing what's best for Ferelden?

 

This paradox confuses me.

[Xilizhra]

Anora has her reasons for doing things, but she's most definitely power-hungry. She has good ideas for Ferelden, but her ruthlessness leads to too much collateral damage if she rules alone.

 

If I want to screw with her, I have Alistair duel and thus kill Loghain, and have her break our prior agreement to have her marry him. That way, my record's clean of any promise breaking and I can bump her off the throne altogether.

[Corker]

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with the writers on Anora being justified in betraying you to save her father. But only because she's essentially supporting a status quo that's going to eventually bring Ferelden to ruin and because there is no logical basis after everything that she's seen and learned about Loghain.

 
Do they say "justified"? I thought it was more along the lines of "this isn't an unreasonable thing for a human being to do." She doesn't want to support Loghain. She's perfectly willing to work with the Warden to remove him from authority. She just doesn't want him dead.

But this is the ruler of a country that we're talking about, a ruler who shouldn't let personal feelings and emotional bias interfere with her duty as a ruler. Some will argue that Anora is human and therefore, it's natural to defend family. But all of the other hundreds of thousands of Fereldens are people too with their own families. Is she really willing to put all of them at risk to support her father and yet still believes that she's doing what's best for Ferelden?

 
I'm still not getting why Alistair, who also risks the Wardens' ability to defeat the Archdemon - and not even for a person, but for an idealized conception of an organization - is the better pick based on this criterion. He doesn't even think what he's doing is best for Ferelden; he just plain doesn't like it and won't stand for it.

[Shadow Fox]

 
Do they say "justified"? I thought it was more along the lines of "this isn't an unreasonable thing for a human being to do." She doesn't want to support Loghain. She's perfectly willing to work with the Warden to remove him from authority. She just doesn't want him dead.

 
I'm still not getting why Alistair, who also risks the Wardens' ability to defeat the Archdemon - and not even for a person, but for an idealized conception of an organization - is the better pick based on this criterion. He doesn't even think what he's doing is best for Ferelden; he just plain doesn't like it and won't stand for it.

As much as I like Alistair I gotta agree with this.

[ShadowLordXII]

 
Do they say "justified"? I thought it was more along the lines of "this isn't an unreasonable thing for a human being to do." She doesn't want to support Loghain. She's perfectly willing to work with the Warden to remove him from authority. She just doesn't want him dead.

 
I'm still not getting why Alistair, who also risks the Wardens' ability to defeat the Archdemon - and not even for a person, but for an idealized conception of an organization - is the better pick based on this criterion. He doesn't even think what he's doing is best for Ferelden; he just plain doesn't like it and won't stand for it.

 

1) There's a few of objective flaws concerning the "Recruit Loghain as a warden" situation that honestly come down to plot contrivance. There is nothing to suggest that Loghain is the only viable option as a warden in that situation especially when the wardens can easily recruit more wardens from their companions or from the many factions currently under the warden's command. Recruiting Loghain just for the sake of getting more wardens false flat when in a none-contrived situation, he wouldn't be the only possibility.

 

2) Loghain has just spent the past year hunting down wardens and driving Ferelden into the gutter. Any merit that he may have as a potential warden is muddled by everything that's he's done and how it's only made the situation worst. He's not only untrustworthy, but he's clearly shown himself capable of letting his personal bias and feelings obscure his judgement which nearly led to his nation's destruction.

 

3) I'm assuming that you mean Hardened Alistair who marries Anora because Unhardened/Hardened Alistair will be executed or driven into exile otherwise. Hardened Alistair doesn't initially want to be king, true. But he actually thinks it over and decides that he does want to be king and believes to be a good leader and as the epilogue shows, he's willing to learn everything that he needs to become a fair, firm yet beloved and effective king of Ferelden. The very notion that he doesn't want to be king at first shows that he's got a good heart and that he decides to be king for Ferelden's sake rather than his own is also another good sign. It shows that Alistair can and will do what he must for Ferelden's good.

 

Then there's how he's risked his life for the past year against darkspawn, demons, and etc. to save his country at his own volition. He'll even stay to fight even if he hates the Warden and their decisions.

 

4) As for being mad about Loghain being recruited enough to leave the party, it is identifiable, but still selfish of him, I'm not going to lie. I'm not sure if he outright deserted Denerem or the army though since he shows up at the celebration after the battle is over. It's very possible that he was still fighting in Denerem, but simply refused to serve alongside Loghain. Considering all of the #$%# that Loghain has done in the past year and how it's all affected Alistair on a personal level in many areas (Eamon and his family, Duncan and the Wardens, Cailan, Being on the run for a year, Ferelden about to be handed to the darkspawn because of Loghain's paranoia over Orlais), I wouldn't blame him.

 

Especially considering the context, Loghain has just been found guilty before all of Ferelden of his crimes and Riorden suggests making him a Warden just to fill a quota. Alistair considers being a Grey Warden an honor, not a way to escape justice for clear treasonous and illegal activity and even the Right of Conscription isn't used quite so liberally (Duncan was guilty of second degree murder while the City Elf and Dwarf Commoner were honestly justified events of self-defense where they would've been punished wrongly because their societies are prejudiced and bias towards elves and casteless).

 

So let's see:

 

Hardened Alistair's qualities: Humility, Determination, Knowledgeable, Apparent Artistic Interest, Tolerance, Loyalty, Care for Justice, Honesty, Healthy self-Confidence and Assertiveness Putting Ferelden above himself as king and as a warden, Wiser than most see (Anora herself will admit as much) acknowledged as Kadan by Aristen (Arishok Sten)

 

Vices: His Tolerance only goes so far, Blunt about personal grievances, somewhat Naive, Incapable of working alongside personal enemies, Can be too emotional at times (Duncan and Connor).

 

Anora's Qualities: Ran adminstrative aspects of Cailan's throne, experienced, Intelligent and Capable, Direct though not overbearing, Assertive, Can be persuaded to share power (w/M!Cousland or Alistair), Natural Charisma, Cares for Ferelden.

 

Vices: Wants to protect her father from any justice he deserves, Will betray allies on a drop of a coin if it serves her interests, possibly Power Hungry, Holds an uneven opinion of her own capabilities in light of her powerlessness/inaction during the Civil War and the Blight, Her own loyalty is to herself, Is her father's daughter.

 

So there, Hardened Alistair+Anora is possibly the best outcome for the Landsmeet with Hardened Alistair's career as a good king being supported by in-game proof and the epilogue. Solo Anora? Nothing in-game suggests that this is exactly as good of an idea as Anora claims.

[Corker]

1) There's a few of objective flaws concerning the "Recruit Loghain as a warden" situation that honestly come down to plot contrivance. There is nothing to suggest that Loghain is the only viable option as a warden in that situation especially when the wardens can easily recruit more wardens from their companions or from the many factions currently under the warden's command. Recruiting Loghain just for the sake of getting more wardens false flat when in a none-contrived situation, he wouldn't be the only possibility.

The guy who suggests the recruitment, Riordan, knows that whoever kills the Archdemon, dies. That's why he wants Loghain to do it. Everybody wants Loghain dead; this will do it; and it will serve a greater purpose. Sure, you *could* recruit your LI or another party member - and then are you going to ask them to die for you?

Alistair is so upset at the idea that he won't stop to listen to the senior Warden, to wonder why Riordan wants to recruit the very man who ordered Riordan be tortured. (Alistair even points out that Loghain is guilty of this. Yes! And yet, despite that, Riordan wants to recruit him. Hm... a thinking person might suspect that there's a reason there!) Because he's being emotional.
 

2) Loghain has just spent the past year hunting down wardens and driving Ferelden into the gutter. Any merit that he may have as a potential warden is muddled by everything that's he's done and how it's only made the situation worst. He's not only untrustworthy, but he's clearly shown himself capable of letting his personal bias and feelings obscure his judgement which nearly led to his nation's destruction.

His "merit" is that he's capable, but everybody wants him dead. That's the point! Riordan considers him disposable. He's not going to be around long enough to influence Warden policy or Ferelden security or what have you. He'll die, just like Alistair wants him to, just later. But that's not good enough. Alistair refuses to even consider fighting alongside Loghain, period. He doesn't know Riordan's reasons and he doesn't care; he won't stop and think and listen. Because he's acting emotionally. He hates Loghain, wants him to pay for Duncan's death, and that's that.

Just like Anora wants to spare Loghain no matter what, Alistair wants to kill him no matter what. Neither is rational about it. Both are emotional. That's my point.
 

3) I'm assuming that you mean Hardened Alistair who marries Anora because Unhardened/Hardened Alistair will be executed or driven into exile otherwise.

I mean all the Alistairs. One of your arguments against Anora is that she lets love for her father cloud her judgement at the Landsmeet, and that anyone who lets emotion get in the way of the business of protecting Ferelden is unsuitable for the job. And I'm saying that Alistair - every Alistair - also lets his emotion get in the way of protecting Ferelden. So, by that measure, he's also unsuitable for the job.

I'm not arguing epilogue slides. I'm arguing that Anora and Alistair are both guilty of the exact same "sin," if a sin it is, of not being perfect emotionless ruler-bots who never let personal considerations sway their decisions. Pick Alistair if you want to, but not because Anora is "too emotional." They both are.

[ShadowLordXII]

The guy who suggests the recruitment, Riordan, knows that whoever kills the Archdemon, dies. That's why he wants Loghain to do it. Everybody wants Loghain dead; this will do it; and it will serve a greater purpose. Sure, you *could* recruit your LI or another party member - and then are you going to ask them to die for you?

Alistair is so upset at the idea that he won't stop to listen to the senior Warden, to wonder why Riordan wants to recruit the very man who ordered Riordan be tortured. (Alistair even points out that Loghain is guilty of this. Yes! And yet, despite that, Riordan wants to recruit him. Hm... a thinking person might suspect that there's a reason there!) Because he's being emotional.
 

His "merit" is that he's capable, but everybody wants him dead. That's the point! Riordan considers him disposable. He's not going to be around long enough to influence Warden policy or Ferelden security or what have you. He'll die, just like Alistair wants him to, just later. But that's not good enough. Alistair refuses to even consider fighting alongside Loghain, period. He doesn't know Riordan's reasons and he doesn't care; he won't stop and think and listen. Because he's acting emotionally. He hates Loghain, wants him to pay for Duncan's death, and that's that.

Just like Anora wants to spare Loghain no matter what, Alistair wants to kill him no matter what. Neither is rational about it. Both are emotional. That's my point.
 

I mean all the Alistairs. One of your arguments against Anora is that she lets love for her father cloud her judgement at the Landsmeet, and that anyone who lets emotion get in the way of the business of protecting Ferelden is unsuitable for the job. And I'm saying that Alistair - every Alistair - also lets his emotion get in the way of protecting Ferelden. So, by that measure, he's also unsuitable for the job.

I'm not arguing epilogue slides. I'm arguing that Anora and Alistair are both guilty of the exact same "sin," if a sin it is, of not being perfect emotionless ruler-bots who never let personal considerations sway their decisions. Pick Alistair if you want to, but not because Anora is "too emotional." They both are.

 

It sounds like you skipped over a lot of my post, but the difference between Anora and Alistair is this:

 

Anora knows that Loghain is guilty as hell and ruins her own bid for the throne for sheer familial intent. Anora has all information available that states that keeping Loghain in power will destroy Ferelden, but she still supports him even though on every level it is a bone-headed move for the ruler of a nation.

 

Alistair knows that Loghain is guilty and wants him to get the justice he deserves. Since Riorden doesn't tell anyone about the Archdemon (he admits to assuming that Alistair and the PC knew about it), then the only reason that Loghain is being kept alive is for the sake of a numbers game. A number's game that he frankly is not needed for considering the potential recruitment pool including the party and the knights residing in Denerem at that very moment.

 

Long story short, nothing about the situation or the given information at that time suggests that Loghain needs to be recruited and allowed to escape justice. So yes, Alistair is more justified beyond a merely emotional basis.

 

It's not about being an emotionless robot either. It's about keeping perspective and Anora simply fails. Alistair kept perspective with the information that he knew and we'll never know if he would have changed his mind if Duncan or Riorden just told him about the Archdemon. Meanwhile, nothing about Anora's betrayal is justified within the context of the Landsmeet or the Blight.

[Cat Lance]

Shadow Lord XII, I think you are doing a great job of arguing your point, I will however point out that you sorry of flip flop your criteria/standards when discussing the two.

I'd also point out that this is all people's opinions and there is no absolute correct choice. You strongly like Alistair and strongly dislike Anora. This is as legitimate as the opposite.

Personally, I dislike the idea of handing the nation over to Anora, as well, forcing Alistair to marry her. From a character perspective I would worry as well to put him on the throne alone.

Also, I have to say, good on Bioware for creating such amazing characters and ending possibilities that there can be such an intelligent argument surrounding all of it. It's been refreshing reading this.

Thanks, everyone for this civil and well constructed arguments! It's been a pleasure to read through it!

[Mike3207]

One other reason you might want to spare Loghain-that pesky Orlesian invasion. If you spare Loghain, there's no mention of a Orlesian invasion in DA2. If you make Alistair king, he mentions he's worried about a Orlesian invasion. I think you want to keep Loghain around as a foil for Orlais. I'll admit I'm partial to M Cousland/Anora though.

[DarthGizka]

@ShadowLordXII:

 

Anora certainly does Machiavelli proud, but so does Darth Duncan. However, I think you are attributing a maturity of motive to Alistair that is simply not warranted.

 

1) There's a few of objective flaws concerning the "Recruit Loghain as a warden" situation that honestly come down to plot contrivance. There is nothing to suggest that Loghain is the only viable option as a warden in that situation especially when the wardens can easily recruit more wardens from their companions or from the many factions currently under the warden's command. Recruiting Loghain just for the sake of getting more wardens false flat when in a none-contrived situation, he wouldn't be the only possibility.

 

The question of recruiting Loghain is not simply about getting another sword arm. Loghain is useless as a fighter - almost as bad as Alistair* - and as you said, there are plenty of much better, much worthier candidates.

Where Loghain could make a substantial contribution to the war effort is as a general, by contributing to the planning and by continuing to lead his troops. However, that obviously wasn't in the cards for this awkward mix of two games - the tactical combat adventure that you play 99% of the time, and the ill-defined running around jabbering politicking thing that you are supposed to play in tiny instalments, interspersed with the first game at very long intervals and with plenty of rabbits getting pulled out of hats.

Speaking game-wise, the Loghain from the brawl (with the bossy health bar) might have been an asset. My last Warden fought Archi back to back with Irving, and it was an absolute blast. Irving kept hardier darkspawn off her back and her mana syphon well fed, while she pefected the fine art of darkspawn detonation and roasted the arch lizard. Irving being of the orange bossy kind meant that he could be left mostly to his own devices, instead of requiring constant attention and protection. By contrast, the Loghain who eventually joins your team - probably the same as the pushover from the duel minus the yellow rank benefits - is nothing but a liability.

Be that as it may, having Loghain bolster the military force of the Wardens in one way or another is a minor side issue. The same for his past behaviour towards the Wardens. Duncan himself was recruited after he killed a Warden while trying to rob him, so there's certainly precedent for service as atonement. However, where the decision about Loghain's fate does have significant impact is in its political ramifications and the effect on the war effort.

Killing the leader of the opposition and serving them a martyr - the Hero of River Dane, no less, and by murdering him in plain view of the whole Landsmeet - is bound to inflame the civil conflict instead of defusing it. If Loghain joins the Grey Wardens in fighting the darkspawn then this removes from the order - and from their allies - the taint of 'enemy' and 'criminal' in ways that nothing else could, not even lengthy show trials and whatnot. Let's not forget that the Grey Wardens had been outlawed for sedition long before Loghain pinned Cailan's death and the whole Ostagar debacle on them. Loghain was basically the ultimate authority behind the accusations; having him switch tune pulls a lot of weight. This also leaves the opposition without a clear enemy image except for the darkspawn, deflating the potential for civil strife.

That Alistair wants to go Bhelen on Loghain is no surprise, but his childish thirst for revenge is unlikely to have anything to do with justice. When the chips are down he cares for nothing but his own unreflected emotionality; not the Blight, not the Grey Wardens, not Ferelden. Least of all something abstract like justice. At the Landsmeet he demonstrates that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

*) "runscript addxp 127500" + auto-level when you get him at level 4, to see the full extent of that catastrophe

[ShadowLordXII]

@ShadowLordXII:

 

Anora certainly does Machiavelli proud, but so does Darth Duncan. However, I think you are attributing a maturity of motive to Alistair that is simply not warranted.

 

 

The question of recruiting Loghain is not simply about getting another sword arm. Loghain is useless as a fighter - almost as bad as Alistair* - and as you said, there are plenty of much better, much worthier candidates.

Where Loghain could make a substantial contribution to the war effort is as a general, by contributing to the planning and by continuing to lead his troops. However, that obviously wasn't in the cards for this awkward mix of two games - the tactical combat adventure that you play 99% of the time, and the ill-defined running around jabbering politicking thing that you are supposed to play in tiny instalments, interspersed with the first game at very long intervals and with plenty of rabbits getting pulled out of hats.

Speaking game-wise, the Loghain from the brawl (with the bossy health bar) might have been an asset. My last Warden fought Archi back to back with Irving, and it was an absolute blast. Irving kept hardier darkspawn off her back and her mana syphon well fed, while she pefected the fine art of darkspawn detonation and roasted the arch lizard. Irving being of the orange bossy kind meant that he could be left mostly to his own devices, instead of requiring constant attention and protection. By contrast, the Loghain who eventually joins your team - probably the same as the pushover from the duel minus the yellow rank benefits - is nothing but a liability.

Be that as it may, having Loghain bolster the military force of the Wardens in one way or another is a minor side issue. The same for his past behaviour towards the Wardens. Duncan himself was recruited after he killed a Warden while trying to rob him, so there's certainly precedent for service as atonement. However, where the decision about Loghain's fate does have significant impact is in its political ramifications and the effect on the war effort.

Killing the leader of the opposition and serving them a martyr - the Hero of River Dane, no less, and by murdering him in plain view of the whole Landsmeet - is bound to inflame the civil conflict instead of defusing it. If Loghain joins the Grey Wardens in fighting the darkspawn then this removes from the order - and from their allies - the taint of 'enemy' and 'criminal' in ways that nothing else could, not even lengthy show trials and whatnot. Let's not forget that the Grey Wardens had been outlawed for sedition long before Loghain pinned Cailan's death and the whole Ostagar debacle on them. Loghain was basically the ultimate authority behind the accusations; having him switch tune pulls a lot of weight. This also leaves the opposition without a clear enemy image except for the darkspawn, deflating the potential for civil strife.

That Alistair wants to go Bhelen on Loghain is no surprise, but his childish thirst for revenge is unlikely to have anything to do with justice. When the chips are down he cares for nothing but his own unreflected emotionality; not the Blight, not the Grey Wardens, not Ferelden. Least of all something abstract like justice. At the Landsmeet he demonstrates that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

*) "runscript addxp 127500" + auto-level when you get him at level 4, to see the full extent of that catastrophe

 

We're starting to veer a little off topic, but War effort? Remember that the Warden can potentially win the Landsmeet in a landslide by bringing up accusation after accusation against Loghain that can all be proven with evidence and testimonies from reliable sources.

 

Apart from old bann Ceorlic who seems to be in denial anyway and possibly Anora (to be fair, I've had playthroughs were she doesn't backstab the PC at the Landsmeet), who would still be in Loghain's corner? The Landsmeet has just been exposed to the fallen menace that Loghain has become in his paranoia and is clearly guilty of multiple crimes and atrocities. Also, that duel at the end of the Landsmeet is a traditional act, “A test of arms in single combat until one party yields. And we who are assembled will abide by the outcome.” Since Loghain lost, he must abide by an execution for his crimes and apart from gasps of shock, no one is calling for the PC's head for killing Loghain. At this point, any remaining opposition has now either turned on Loghain, focused on the encroaching blight or has already been killed at this point. In short, there's no proof that killing Loghain at the Landsmeet is a bad idea in the short or long term.

 

Also I think there's a large confusion between vengeance and justice hence why I say Alistair is justified for wanting justice given to Loghain while others see it as a childish desire for vengeance.

 

I'd also like to point that the Duncan precedent was based on attempted theft that escalated into the Second Degree murder of a warden. A terrible crime sure, but Duncan wasn't systematically destroying his own nation and acting out/acting as accomplice to several crimes and atrocities out of a misguided set of priorities and paranoia. Plus, killing a warden proves that Duncan has raw skill which can be useful to the wardens.

 

What skill could Loghain give? He's supposedly a seasoned warrior with lots of experience and tactical/strategic genius. But given all of his screw-ups and actions after Ostagar, his case is somewhat weakened.

 

As for why Alistair is justified while Anora isn't? As I said before, Anora is trying to withhold justice for her father and would even go as far as to support keeping him in power knowing everything that he's done. Just because she's defending her father, that doesn't excuse the leader of a nation at knowingly and willingly committing an action that would have harmful detriment upon her country. Alistair, is a determined, honest and loyal companion who just doesn't want the bad guy to get away with murder and within the context of what he knows and what the player knows, nothing suggests that killing Loghain is a bad thing.

[Xilizhra]

One other reason you might want to spare Loghain-that pesky Orlesian invasion. If you spare Loghain, there's no mention of a Orlesian invasion in DA2. If you make Alistair king, he mentions he's worried about a Orlesian invasion. I think you want to keep Loghain around as a foil for Orlais. I'll admit I'm partial to M Cousland/Anora though.

I've done both and the Orlesian invasion is mentioned both times.