720 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob from Accounting]

Yup. When the reapers have won every time for millions of years you can't be in the position of sticking with principles.

 

I wouldn't call someone like Wreav an ally anyway; at least not one by choice. Shepard is forced to cooperate with him even though they hate each other. They did in my case at least. What kind of ally sends threats through e-mail after the genophage is "cured" as well as plenty of verbal threats to entire races beforehand?

 

Technically the krogans weren't Shepard's allies anyway. They were the turians'. Primarch Victus doesn't even know of the sabotage.

 

If you throw away your 'principles' at the first sign of trouble, they aren't principles.

 

They're simply a facade you pretend to have simply for the show of throwing it away when the time is right. As a show of supposed 'strength.' Of supposed 'pragmaticism.'

 

That fact that a person would be so dependant on silly shows of 'strength' says a great deal.

[Reorte]

If you throw away your 'principles' at the first sign of trouble, they aren't principles.

 

They're simply a facade you pretend to have simply for the show of throwing it away when the time is right. As a show of supposed 'strength.' Of supposed 'pragmaticism.'

 

That fact that a person would be so dependant on silly shows of 'strength' says a great deal.

It's hardly the first sign of trouble when you've got Reapers flattening your cities. Some people who say "I'll do whatever is necessary" seem all too eager to do whatever isn't necessary too, but there are also those who, last man alive, would stand on top of a pile of corpses and say "At least I didn't betray my values."

[Bob from Accounting]

Such people probably don't have much of an understanding of values. Since human life is a value as well. One that all socieites demand respect for.

[jtav]

Well, my principles aren't quite Paragon. I'd like to tear down the whole Council system bit by bit. I don't care for the Alliance either. Control is the means to an end.

[themikefest]

Such people probably don't have much of an understanding of values. Since human life is a value as well. One that all socieites demand respect for.

If I betray allies that ends up saving you and maybe your family, without you knowing I betrayed allies, you would be the first one to say thanks.

[Bob from Accounting]

Yes, when people don't know stuff, they don't know stuff. That's pretty...self-evident. To say the least.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yes, when people don't know stuff, they don't know stuff. That's pretty...self-evident. To say the least.

 

Like every Bob and David quote ever!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If you throw away your 'principles' at the first sign of trouble, they aren't principles.

 

Is flexibility not a principle?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Such people probably don't have much of an understanding of values. Since human life is a value as well. One that all socieites demand respect for.

 

It is a value. Just not the same universal value.

 

Please don't presume that you can go on a real statement of political theory with me...

 

Actually scratch that. Go ahead and try and debate normative ethics with political theory and comparative politics. It will be a pleasure for me.

[von uber]

Jeez, why do these threads always end in arguments.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Is flexibility not a principle?

 

It is indeed. 

 

My goals are my principles. Getting them accomplished and achieving my desired end-state is my virtue.

 

I don't have time for moral or ethical integrity. If it doesn't help me, it's useless. 

 

Morality is not black and white. Nor is it grey. It is a rainbow.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Jeez, why do these threads always end in arguments.

 

Bob/David. This is every thread that ever involves him.

[Bob from Accounting]

Is flexibility not a principle?

 

Not of morality.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

If you throw away your 'principles' at the first sign of trouble, they aren't principles.

 

They're simply a facade you pretend to have simply for the show of throwing it away when the time is right. As a show of supposed 'strength.' Of supposed 'pragmaticism.'

 

That fact that a person would be so dependant on silly shows of 'strength' says a great deal.

 

And what does it show about their strength David? That no matter how powerful or strong someone is physically (and objectively), he is nothing to the pathetic weakling who has moral courage and integrity to do the 'right' thing?

[von uber]

Bob/David. This is every thread that ever involves him.

 

Would posting pictures of a naked Liara quiten him?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Would posting pictures of a naked Liara quiten him?

 

Probably not, it'll get him started on characterization or something.

[Reorte]

And what does it show about their strength David? That no matter how powerful or strong someone is physically (and objectively), he is nothing to the pathetic weakling who has moral courage and integrity to do the 'right' thing?

What of the pathetic meathead who's answer to every problem is to punch people?

 

The 'right' thing is to end the conflict with as little suffering as possible, considering both short-term and long-term consequences.

[jtav]

The irony is that I'm actually pretty deontological in my ethics.

[von uber]

Probably not, it'll get him started on characterization or something.

Oh. Well I am out of options then; good luck.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Not of morality.

 

So if you gave your word to a tyrant (say it was Wreav you gave your word to rather than Wrex), it's still moral to you?

[Bob from Accounting]

So long as he keeps his word to you. And if you're depending on people, you shouldn't be giving your word to them without setting down conditions for them to follow as well.

 

'Don't be a tyrant,' for instance.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

What of the pathetic meathead who's answer to every problem is to punch people?

 

The 'right' thing is to end the conflict with as little suffering as possible, considering both short-term and long-term consequences.

 

That is indeed the right course of action for said meathead in his own way. Granted, I'd rather be an intellectual bruiser, with mind and matter to overcome both.

 

The right thing for me is to look at both and conclude whether it's more economical or rational to make such an action or not.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The irony is that I'm actually pretty deontological in my ethics.

 

That is pretty odd. I subscribe to Dewey's method of pragmatic ethics, as well as a general support for consequentialism. And I do combine it with Virtue ethics as well. Deontological ethics are really the only style of normative ethics that I personally disregard (well, also role ethics, but nobody really takes that seriously anymore). The only parts of it I personally accept are John Rawl's idea on contractualism to a certain extent.

[Invisible Man]

within the mass effect series the games seem to state if you don't pick paragon, most of the time you waste lives for nothing.
so in the game being unprincipled only serves to add to your body count.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

within the mass effect series the games seem to state if you don't pick paragon, most of the time you waste lives for nothing.
so in the game being unprincipled only serves to add to your body count.

 

If it serves my purpose, I'm fine with it. But yeah, a lot of Renegade decisions are more or less just bloody with no substance. 

 

And I wish I had the ability to voice my thoughts on the paragon decisions I make. For many of them, I don't choose it because it's 'the right thing to do', I choose it because I can see an obvious physical advantage that furthers my goal with the most economic validity. I don't have to excessively waste energy to get what I need.