72 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

You can shut him down with the cunning So it's about you and the arl and not about me at all? option. I love how quickly he deflates.

[Ryzaki]

Well this is just another example of how the 'wise' choice would make sense but the not wise choice magically spares people. Reminds me of how in Mass Effect if you have certain options to save council or focus on soverign and it's very manipulative and not realistic at all. It was a poorly wriiten plot moment. Leaving him there seems stupid but I've learned to go along with the game when I see these options because usually the 'ideal' has some sort of magical result - ie: leave the castle and nothing happens. In fact, I have left the castle and quite deliberately headed off to Orzamarr after the Mage circle just to see if anything happned and apparently the deamon is quite willing to sit around waiting for me to come kill it.

 

XD

 

Hopefully DAI will avoid such silliness with their timers (though I despise timed missions).

How do you do this?

Need about 25 cunning I think. Easiest to do it as a rogue.

[theskymoves]

All the talk about Alistair yelling at the Warden about dead!Connor/Isolde reminded me of how incredibly hot he is during that convo... so I had to change my avatar to grumpy "You killed Connor. You killed him. A little boy. How could you do that?"!Alistair.  /thread cr@p

[Dutchess]

 

I think the dialogue option only comes up if the Broken Circle has been completed already. Eliminating the Circle option by getting Irving killed would still count as unnecessary in my book, although it is probably easy to do so by accident (i.e. with some dialogue choice that looks innocent enough but later turns out to have been a trap).

 

If you mean the dialogue option to go to the Circle for help, then no, it is not necessary to have already completed the Broken Circle quest. I have had at least two characters who went to Redcliffe first and could still opt to go to the Circle. Once there you find out it is a mess, clean it up, then bring back mages for the ritual.

[Ryzaki]

It's the one time he actually gets fully behind something and stands up for what he believes. Of course, he waited till after I made the choice which he actually pretty much agreed to do when in the castle. Sort of a dire circumstance thing but he was never fully against it if I remember correctly. I chose Isolade that time and he was so pissed about it. Well, he should have said something before I did it than stand around like a dolt. At least you get fair warning from Morrigan and Leliana which as much as I hate them having comments on every action I take, I know what the consequences are. But Alistair seems to be okay with it then rips you a new one back at camp.

 

Yep that's when my rogue lost it. She was having a hard enough time having to kill a kid in the first place but for Alistair to flip flop on her like that and she flipped her ****.

[Cat Lance]

Of course. My remark was aimed at the Circle option being discussed and rejected as imprudent, while in your case it wasn't even in the cards.
 
I think the dialogue option only comes up if the Broken Circle has been completed already. Eliminating the Circle option by getting Irving killed would still count as unnecessary in my book, although it is probably easy to do so by accident (i.e. with some dialogue choice that looks innocent enough but later turns out to have been a trap).
 
P.S.: sorry, that was @ Cat Lance.

I think it all depends on how you are playing through, though. From a meta standpoint you save a clear perfect answer.

However, for those of us who play in character. It can be very legitimate to a character to not see the circle option as viable.

That is, the Warden has no way to now that if they leave and come back they will come back to anything good. The travel time could lead to them returning to a castle with a missing Connor and a bunch of dead bodies!

In character it has the potential to be an absolutely heart breaking quest line. Especially for anyone go always plays basically good people. The Warden might not see any other answer and hate the Maker for it every step of the way.

[Monica21]

 

I think the dialogue option only comes up if the Broken Circle has been completed already. Eliminating the Circle option by getting Irving killed would still count as unnecessary in my book, although it is probably easy to do so by accident (i.e. with some dialogue choice that looks innocent enough but later turns out to have been a trap).

 

Actually, the dialogue still comes up if the Broken Circle isn't completed. It did on my first playthrough. I'm sure there's a path to it, but you have to choose the, "There has to be a better way" option, or something close to it. I think it's Alistair who suggests the Circle and that they're not far.

[luna1124]

TSM, I love your avatar!!!!!

[DarthGizka]

Actually, the dialogue still comes up if the Broken Circle isn't completed. It did on my first playthrough. I'm sure there's a path to it, but you have to choose the, "There has to be a better way" option, or something close to it. I think it's Alistair who suggests the Circle and that they're not far.

 

Yes, and Teagan suggests it if Alistair isn't there. He also says that it is "a day's journey across the lake". I checked.

 

I'm not sure about the ways in which you can lose the Circle option. Wynne going hostile - for example, over Morrigan - seems to be one way. Another if Uldred converts Irving, like when the litany is on cooldown at exactly the wrong moment. There are plenty of dialogue choices that seem to commit you to annulling the Circle, starting with Greagoir when you enter the Tower and ending with Cullen shortly before you fight Uldred. However, I don't know which of these are traps and which are just talk.

 

It's also difficult to make out what's what because the scripts are full of dead wood. Like Wynne going hostile if the Warden is a blood mage, which I've never seen happening. That part of the script has Greagoir & friends turn hostile, too.

[dshoub]

The first place I go to recruit is the mage tower and I save the mages (seems like the right thing to do), so I never have this issue because I'm able to go there for help and save Connor.

[sylvanaerie]

Yes, and Teagan suggests it if Alistair isn't there. He also says that it is "a day's journey across the lake". I checked.

 

I'm not sure about the ways in which you can lose the Circle option. Wynne going hostile - for example, over Morrigan - seems to be one way. Another if Uldred converts Irving, like when the litany is on cooldown at exactly the wrong moment. There are plenty of dialogue choices that seem to commit you to annulling the Circle, starting with Greagoir when you enter the Tower and ending with Cullen shortly before you fight Uldred. However, I don't know which of these are traps and which are just talk.

 

It's also difficult to make out what's what because the scripts are full of dead wood. Like Wynne going hostile if the Warden is a blood mage, which I've never seen happening. That part of the script has Greagoir & friends turn hostile, too.

 You can lose the Circle option by annulling it, which is even possible after saving Irving if you take the dialogue line that suggests "If even one blood mage has escaped, you can't take the risk".  Irving will reluctantly turn over the Circle for 'inspection' which makes you side with the Templars. 

 

I know this because it happened the first time I attempted to play the game on my Cousland (I never finished).  I got the 'sided with templars' achievement and went on to do Redcliffe and when the option came to go to the circle, I didn't have it as a solution.  At that point I reloaded, too far to go back and ended up deleting her.

 

The Wynne/PC Blood mage conversation is bugged.  It won't fire without a mod.  Love this game but it was full of bugs.  Thank God I played it on a PC where a lot of that can be rectified.

[wiccame]

I only ever let Connor die once and it was accidental. I was trying to get to Eamon's room but the cutscene kicked in and I was forced to fight.

It sucked that at that point he had to die no matter what, the conversation with Isolde didn't give me the chance to go to the circle, he had to die. So I let her do it. 

Luckily I had a save before I went to the room so i reloaded, and I never go up to the room now. It was a horrible scene.

 

Now if I want to side with the templars, I always let Isolde do the ritual. She's willing to make up for her mistake and save her child, you can't deny her that.

Her being cruel to Alistair when he was a child in no way made the decision easier 

[wiccame]

 

The Wynne/PC Blood mage conversation is bugged.  It won't fire without a mod.  Love this game but it was full of bugs.  Thank God I played it on a PC where a lot of that can be rectified.

 

Didn't they take this out because, you can be forced to fight both the templars and the mages, leaving you no one to side with and not being able to complete the quest.

[DarthGizka]

And you would need someone to side with because...?

 

You can get a golem army, but you don't have to. You can get the Legion of the Dead, but you don't have to.

 

Why would they require you to get either the mages or the templars? It's not like you need them for anything*. The quest could simply have closed without any new allies. In any case I find it silly that you get new armies at the end of each of the MQ strands, no matter what you do.

 

*) For fairness' sake I must admit that one time I had an absolute blast working shoulder to shoulder with Irving at Archi's do.

[wiccame]

And you would need someone to side with because...?

 

You can get a golem army, but you don't have to. You can get the Legion of the Dead, but you don't have to.

 

Why would they require you to get either the mages or the templars? It's not like you need them for anything*. The quest could simply have closed without any new allies. In any case I find it silly that you get new armies at the end of each of the MQ strands, no matter what you do.

 

*) For fairness' sake I must admit that one time I had an absolute blast working shoulder to shoulder with Irving at Archi's do.

 

Because, the whole point is to gain allies. You cant do that if you kill everyone. 

The golems are just an extra bonus if you choose to go that path.

 

Though I guess it could be interesting if the number of allies could be variable, determining the difficulty of the final battle.

Saying that though, I rarely use my allies leading up to the top of the fort and then I only use one group, usually the elves cause they can still attack when the archdemon is perched out of reach.

[DarthGizka]

Because, the whole point is to gain allies. You cant do that if you kill everyone.

 

The Circle is only one source of potential allies, among several. If that particular quest ends in failure then you have only three guaranteed armies instead of four. So what? Even for an inexperienced player that would not create undue difficulty, and it pales into total insignificance if you consider the shoddy design (gameplay-wise) of things like the spider queen skirmish* or the twin golems who do a stereo hurl at whoever disarms a certain trap in Caridin's gauntlet.

 

Anyway, the endgame would have been much more interesting if you only got the armies that you earned, and if you actually needed them for anything. Like if the grunts had normal HP instead of being one-hitters, or if the armies called by Archi were more numerous and actually sought out the attacking forces instead of awaiting patiently their turn to be detonated, toasted, whirling dervished or otherwise dispatched.

 

*) The point here is that a first-time player can easily see companions killed or their whole party wiped out in no time flat, even if they haven't made any egregious mistakes. The same holds for the ambush with the eight shrieks (superb DPS, AoE stun) in the Dead Trenches, or the group of bounty hunters at the Frostback Mountain pass if the player goes there right after Lothering.

[sylvanaerie]

I play on normal so it's not too terribly difficult (I prefer story over combat).  If something is too difficult (or I've grown completely bored with the combat) I just use console command to killallhostiles.  I have attempted the final fights with NO troops helping me, and found (on average, normal diff) they are completely unnecessary aside from a 'cool factor' of having say, the Legion kicking butt or watching Irving/Eamon and you don't even summon the latter two, they just come out at a certain point in the battle, kicking ass on the AD.  The bottleneck in the Alienage at the gate can be lethal if that caster gets off his cloudkill ability, and it tends to wipe the troops because the AI just has them standing there with their heads up their asses sucking up damage and NOT doing anything to assist my party.  Unsure if that was intentional or a bug in the system.  But that, and the courtyard of fort drakon with the emmissarys doing their 'red circle of suck' spell on my party and 2 dragons can get difficult as well.  Those are usually the only places I summon help.  Mostly I finish the game with either the entire army intact (because they weren't used) or with some casualties among my army but none completely wiped out.  

[DarthGizka]

It's a pity that you have to go Dark Side in order to get the weres and the golems. It would have been a perfect fit for Sith campaign that I had planned, but playing the Darkspawn Chronicles was enough of that to last me a couple of years. So it isn't going to happen.

 

Anyway, the armies would have been nicer if you could call more than one of them at a time. The rooftop could be a real blast that way. One army for each of the places where Archie's reinforcements arrive, the elves to put the heat on him directly, and perhaps the Legion as well. The Warden handing out refreshments and tending the barbecue.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And you would need someone to side with because...?

 

You can get a golem army, but you don't have to. You can get the Legion of the Dead, but you don't have to.

 

Why would they require you to get either the mages or the templars? It's not like you need them for anything*. The quest could simply have closed without any new allies. In any case I find it silly that you get new armies at the end of each of the MQ strands, no matter what you do.

 

*) For fairness' sake I must admit that one time I had an absolute blast working shoulder to shoulder with Irving at Archi's do.

Pretty sure it was Archie who got blasted.

[Ananka]

As much as I hate Isolde I feel bad when she pleads for Connor's life. If the mages are alive I always run to them (choice might be different if there were any repercussions to fetching them, say having fight my way through another horde of undead because it took too long), otherwise I mostly use blood magic and have Isolde sacrifice herself. In the few playthroughs where I killed Connor, once by knocking Isolde out and once by having her kill him, I usually felt so bad I went back and reloaded. I don't have a problem with killing kids in video games as such, but Isolde is so torn up about it that I can't do it. And if she even volunteers to give her life for her kid's, who am I to tell her she can't.