166 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Agreed on it being speculation, hence me saying it as a possibility. The Old God call drives anyone who hears it insane, and that includes Darkspawn. Better to have your thralls mindless than possibly look for ways around you, like the Architect tried. Without that call, the Darkspawn's unity and focus will collapse, as seen with the Mother, and will possibly becoming raging monsters who destroy everything in their path just as surely as any Blight will. On the other hand, they may retain their sanity and be like the Messenger.

Though I agree, the archdemons are certainly going to try that while the Archdemon-less Darkspawn may only possibly do that, so it is worth the risk.

 

Mother was awakened by architect by not natural means.And no they aren't mindless archdemon makes them stronger and more tactical add to that they have help strongest creature seen in da universe.So as i said ultimately you will have to kill archdemons to survive regardless consequences.Architect darkspawn was even more dangerous as they were wanted create own civilization with creatures that can't coexist with another races and only way to reproduce is kidnapping females of other races so good luck for anyone with architect.

 

Just look what happends after archdemons dies       

[Master Warder Z_]

Very simple and 100% effective...

 

Destroy Orlais Empire

 

 

 

 

Let's stop that train of thought for just a singular moment shall we.

 

Orlais maintains one of the largest militaries in Thedas prior to their civil war, They are a continental influence in trade, commerce and politics due to the vast wealth their empire posses, Let us just suppose for one moment that one of the largest global economies just suddenly ceases to exist?

 

Do you know what the resulting power vacuum would do to the other Nations? I don't but i have plenty of theories, From other Nations bickering amongst themselves whom is going to replace Orlais to the former Empire it self being invaded, This spree of unrest and warfare you invite would cripple Thedas for generations.

 

All because you don't personally care for their Empire?

 

:/

 

Hate to play the Lawful evil card but, Stability, Balance and order are what matter most, not the individual, One life doesn't equal a thousand little lone an entire Nation's worth of people going through the chaos this little insurrection would cause just so you can topple the greatest Empire in Thedas.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Mother was awakened by architect by not natural means.And no they aren't mindless archdemon makes them stronger and more tactical add to that they have help strongest creature seen in da universe.So as i said ultimately you will have to kill archdemons to survive regardless consequences.Architect darkspawn was even more dangerous as they were wanted create own civilization with creatures that can't coexist with another races and only way to reproduce is kidnapping females of other races so good luck for anyone with architect.

 

Just look what happends after archdemons dies       

She was Awakened because she no longer heard the call. Through artificial means yes, but both methods would have similar results, but as we saw with the Disciples the effects may vary. Did I say they were mindless? No, I said they were insane. There is a difference. 

 

You mean when they ran to the Deep Roads to begin their search for Razikale?

 

We are getting offtopic. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's stop that train of thought for just a singular moment shall we.

 

Orlais maintains one of the largest militaries in Thedas prior to their civil war, They are a continental influence in trade, commerce and politics due to the vast wealth their empire posses, Let us just suppose for one moment that one of the largest global economies just suddenly ceases to exist?

 

Do you know what the resulting power vacuum would do to the other Nations? I don't but i have plenty of theories, From other Nations bickering amongst themselves whom is going to replace Orlais to the former Empire it self being invaded, This spree of unrest and warfare you invite would cripple Thedas for generations.

 

All because you don't personally care for their Empire?

 

:/

 

Hate to play the Lawful evil card but, Stability, Balance and order are what matter most, not the individual, One life doesn't equal a thousand little lone an entire Nation's worth of people going through the chaos this little insurrection would cause just so you can topple the greatest Empire in Thedas.

So let's change the country here for a second. So you're saying that if we existed at the time Tevinter was the most powerful nation, you would keep them around as well?

[KainD]

Hate to play the Lawful evil card but, Stability, Balance and order are what matter most, not the individual, One life doesn't equal a thousand little lone an entire Nation's worth of people going through the chaos this little insurrection would cause just so you can topple the greatest Empire in Thedas.

 

Couldn't disagree more. 

[Master Warder Z_]

So let's change the country here for a second. So you're saying that if we existed at the time Tevinter was the most powerful nation, you would keep them around as well?

 

Thankfully i don't have to support those Mages for the sake of global stability do i?

 

:/ Their presence is gone, they aren't required to maintain balance, but ultimately it would depend upon several different factors, Ultimately i likely wouldn't considering we didn't have things like multiple Nations, Expanded population and things to factor in like Qunari and Darkspawn, Thedas could suffer through a few generations of warfare and strife to sort it self out then.

 

In fact it might even result in something better, get the common people to topple that Imperium utterly, But ultimately its just speculative, but Thedas in this scenario likely could afford the price of depose the Imperium given there isn't any centralized governance outside of the Imperium to speak of anyway.

 

It can't afford it now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thankfully i don't have to support those Mages for the sake of global stability do i?

 

:/ Their presence is gone, they aren't required to maintain balance, but ultimately it would depend upon several different factors, Ultimately i likely wouldn't considering we didn't have things like multiple Nations, Expanded population and things to factor in like Qunari and Darkspawn, Thedas could suffer through a few generations of warfare and strife to sort it self out then.

 

In fact it might even result in something better, get the common people to topple that Imperium utterly, But ultimately its just speculative, but Thedas in this scenario likely could afford the price of depose the Imperium given there isn't any centralized governance outside of the Imperium to speak of anyway.

 

It can't afford it now.

So you support the overthrow of one government when it was the most influential player, but not another?

[Master Warder Z_]

So you support the overthrow of one government when it was the most influential player, but not another?

 

Because the global stage was entirely different. Yes.

 

There wasn't a Thedas then, Its individual Barbarian Tribes and Settlements, Nations were non existent,Civilization in that time meant the Imperium, There isn't anything to lose by it falling into the sea.

[Asdrubael Vect]

So you support the overthrow of one government when it was the most influential player, but not another?

he support them because they are Orlais..he starts to talk some bullshit about economy, trade and useless things what does not have influence in Thedas exept luxury of some nobles and merchants who exist because of Trade with Orlais...this does not have any other influence

 

Orlais 'military' is the most incompetent, useless and the weakness in Thedas as Orlais goverment and they fight with each others

 

Orlais is the source of all Thedas kingdoms/nations problems sinse Draccon death...genocites..wars...decay of sciense

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because the global stage was entirely different. Yes.

 

There wasn't a Thedas then, Its individual Barbarian Tribes and Settlements, Nations were non existent,Civilization in that time meant the Imperium, There isn't anything to lose by it falling into the sea.

I was actually thinking of an Imperium after it began to fall but before now, when the global stage was the same. It was a hypothetical scenario. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

She was Awakened because she no longer heard the call. Through artificial means yes, but both methods would have similar results, but as we saw with the Disciples the effects may vary. Did I say they were mindless? No, I said they were insane. There is a difference. 

 

You mean when they ran to the Deep Roads to begin their search for Razikale?

 

We are getting offtopic. 

 

Because as i said architect awakened her so no nautral process so as darkspawn but they had free will.

 

They stopped fight and lost motivation after archdemon death and they scattered rahter they went search for another archdemon.

 

And on topic

I don't agree we have already times of chaos replacing old very destructive order with better and more stable benefical order is better than bring back destructive "order" that was before...

 

Same was with tevinter... 
 

[KainD]

Change is good, no matter the cost, direction and time. Change keeps things going, evolve and adapt. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Change is good, no matter the cost, direction and time. Change keeps things going, evolve and adapt. 

 

Well i wouldn't say that change may be good for person a and bad for person b as well it can be change universal like changing utopia on dystopia i doubt many would like such change and would be positive change...

 

Revolutions in most cases change life of one group on better and other usually group that ruled before on worse...

[Master Warder Z_]

I was actually thinking of an Imperium after it began to fall but before now, when the global stage was the same. It was a hypothetical scenario. 

 

Still wouldn't an Accurate assessment given that after the Exalted Marches that divided Thedas into Black and White, Teveinter had ceased to be a global player, its not important for the continuation of governance. There is no economy beyond their own depending upon the outside world, There is no issue with them simply fading into the background given that's exactly what they did.

[Potato Cat]

For my Elfquisitor:

* Ending the demon threat

* Supporting the City Elf Rebellion

* Supporting the Qunari, should the opportunity present itself

* Ending the nug threat

[KainD]

Well i wouldn't say that change may be good for person a and bad for person b as well it can be change universal like changing utopia on dystopia i doubt many would like such change and would be positive change...

 

Revolutions in most cases change life of one group on better and other usually group that ruled before on worse...

 

Changing utopia to dystopia will make people appreciate the utopia more once they return to it when the time of change comes again. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Still wouldn't an Accurate assessment given that after the Exalted Marches that divided Thedas into Black and White, Teveinter had ceased to be a global player, its not important for the continuation of governance. There is no economy beyond their own depending upon the outside world, There is no issue with them simply fading into the background given that's exactly what they did.

Fine, I'll just ask bluntly then: If Orlais and Tevinter were switched right now in terms of continental pull, would you support Tevinter just like you would Orlais? They have the same systems as they do here, but simply Tevinter is the strongest nation with greatest influence.

[Asdrubael Vect]

the only Ancient Tevinter-all humanity problem was Old Gods ruleship, modern Tevinter who was created when Blight comes solve this problem of all Thedas humanity who for thousands years  do all what old inprison lizards will said to them and this is bring Elvennan to destruction and can be destruction of humanity and all Thedas if elves does not share knoledges what help Magisters to create Grey Wardens

 

Orlais create problems for themselfs and Thedas because of their own..they are far worst then Ancient Tevinter and they does not have 'god-like' creatures who rule them and they know Ancient Tevinter sins but do things worst then whose who they always mention in their religion propoganda..its just greediness a pair of humans bastards dynastys and their own beliefs and lies

[TheKomandorShepard]

Changing utopia to dystopia will make people appreciate the utopia more once they return to it when the time of change comes again. 

Hah it doesn't work like that if you change something it stays that way so making dystopia would corrupt peoples what makes utopia being impossible of course if we assume that utopia is possible in first place.

 

so changes aren't always for better or are only for some peoples...

[Master Warder Z_]

Fine, I'll just ask bluntly then: If Orlais and Tevinter were switched right now in terms of continental pull, would you support Tevinter just like you would Orlais? They have the same systems as they do here, but simply Tevinter is the strongest nation with greatest influence.

 

For the sake of global stability, of course.

 

Morality doesn't come into play when you are governing the world, i said as much before.

 

Are you merely questioning if i'd support Mages ruling over Normal people? Or you are inquiring into if i'd support Teveinter Politics? Either way i'd point that while i personally don't on either account, we aren't discussing me personally, we are discussing Civilization having a strong central point, an Apex society.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For the sake of global stability, of course.

 

Morality doesn't come into play when you are governing the world, i said as much before.

 

Are you merely questioning if i'd support Mages ruling over Normal people? Or you are inquiring into if i'd support Teveinter Politics? Either way i'd point that while i personally don't on either account, we aren't discussing me personally, we are discussing Civilization having a strong central point, an Apex society.

I was seeing if you were supporting Orlais on purely impersonal reasons, or is you were because of bias towards Orlais. So I chose a nation that is almost the opposite of Orlais. 

[KainD]

Hah it doesn't work like that if you change something it stays that way so making dystopia would corrupt peoples what makes utopia being impossible of course if we assume that utopia is possible in first place.

 

so changes aren't always for better or are only for some peoples...

 

Nah, things are always changing. I do think utopia might be possible, but you know - things evolve until they have reached the point of perfection and then they face extinction. 

[MisterJB]

he support them because they are Orlais..he starts to talk some bullshit about economy, trade and useless things what does not have influence in Thedas exept luxury of some nobles and merchants who exist because of Trade with Orlais...this does not have any other influence

 

Orlais 'military' is the most incompetent, useless and the weakness in Thedas as Orlais goverment and they fight with each others

 

Orlais is the source of all Thedas kingdoms/nations problems sinse Draccon death...genocites..wars...decay of sciense

...did you just say economy and trade are useless and have no influence beyond the scope of nobles and merchants?

 

I was actually going to talk a bit about how the idea that Orlais has lead to the decay of science is ridiculous when they're one of the most advanced nations on Thedas with two universities and cities illuminated by glow lamps but... what's the point anymore?

[Master Warder Z_]

I was seeing if you were supporting Orlais on purely impersonal reasons, or is you were because of bias towards Orlais. So I chose a nation that is almost the opposite of Orlais. 

 

Of course i have bias to Orlais over Teveinter, it does't mean i wouldn't support another come if some one else had a stronger case, Politics, Governance are ultimately all supposed to be impersonal, all driven to improve the lives of the collective, not improve personal standing.

 

Besides, There are a few National Socialistic Tendencies in the Imperium, i guess i could get over supporting them...eventually. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nah, things are always changing. I do think utopia might be possible, but you know - things evolve until they have reached the point of perfection and then they face extinction. 

For humans or humans like races utopia isn't possible and to point when humans is only human it will never be