166 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

...did you just say economy and trade are useless and have no influence beyond the scope of nobles and merchants?

 

I was actually going to talk a bit about how the idea that Orlais has lead to the decay of science is ridiculous when they're one of the most advanced nations on Thedas with two universities and cities illuminated by glow lamps but... what's the point anymore?

 

JB there is a reason i ignored that post, when i read that...opinion i lost all interest in seeking to appeal to that person to reverse their opinion.

 

Its obvious that logic, common sense and political stability mean little to that person.

[KainD]

For humans or humans like races utopia isn't possible and to point when humans is only human it will never be 

 

There's this transhumanism wall where you become more than just human, aaand then you then have nothing more to strive to, and you ''live'' forever. 

[DrBlingzle]

There are so many morally "good" goals to aim for: peace, justice, truth, protecting the innocent, freedom, etc, etc. The problem is I think its going to be impossible to fufill some of these goals without abandoning some of the others.

Therefore my inquisition isnt going to be utterally dedicated to one ideal instead its going to be flexible and do what I believe is morally right depending on the situation.

If my inquisitor is going to have an ideal held higher than all the rest it is simply going to be protecting the innocents of thedas but I'm worried (and kind of hoping) I might have to abandon that ideal at points if the price is to high to pay.

If DAI can truly make me choose between my ideals on a scale unlike any game I've played before, it is going to make a great game.

[TheKomandorShepard]

JB there is a reason i ignored that post, when i read that...opinion i lost all interest in seeking to appeal to that person to reverse their opinion.

 

Its obvious that logic, common sense and political stability mean little to that person.

 

political stability and orlais? hmm... do we talking about this corrupted ,self-destructive nation that wast time to destroy itself from inside

 

 

 

There's this transhumanism wall where you become more than just human, aaand then you then have nothing more to strive to, and you ''live'' forever. 

right...

[KainD]

There are so many morally "good" goals to aim for: peace, justice, truth, protecting the innocent, freedom, etc, etc.

 

 

Why can't I hold all these subjective goals? 

[Master Warder Z_]

There's this transhumanism wall where you become more than just human, aaand then you then have nothing more to strive to, and you ''live'' forever. 

 

Striving for perfection is a never ending goal, to achieve it is to hold the fire of God in you're hands and to shape reality into how you wish it to be.

 

o-o That said i'm not an overt support of tranhumanism, given i think it can be achieved, politically,culturally and socially through non technological means. Technology merely makes it easier to achieve, it isn't an overt requirement.

[Master Warder Z_]

political stability and orlais? hmm... do we talking about this corrupted ,self-destructive nation that wast time to destroy itself from inside

 

...What?

 

._. English is my third written tongue and i couldn't comprehend that sentence.

[KainD]

Striving for perfection is a never ending goal, to achieve it is to hold the fire of God in you're hands and to shape reality into how you wish it to be.

 

o-o That said i'm not an overt support of tranhumanism, given i think it can be achieved, politically,culturally and socially through non technological means. Technology merely makes it easier to achieve, it isn't an overt requirement.

 

I believe that technology can pretty much reach the fire of God status. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

...What?

 

._. English is my third written tongue and i couldn't comprehend that sentence.

 

lol it wasn't hard to read... first political stability isn't close to orlais as orlais is corrupted and self-destructive in own politics as dwarves were only behlen who crushed his opponents started move things in better way and political stability orlais isn't because as i said orlais is self-destructive...

[DrBlingzle]

 

Why can't I hold all these subjective goals? 

No reason why you can't, I'm just saying at points some might need to be sacrificed in order to fulfill others, In which case would you be willing to sacrifice anything in order to follow that ideal?

[Master Warder Z_]

I believe that technology can pretty much reach the fire of God status. 

 

It likely can, but it will mean little if that speculation is proven true but the species is too divided to achieve it.

 

Technology is secondary to unification. United Species can achieve much, Divided and you see our current earth more or less.

 

Hence my belief on singularity, a focus to direct people's attention to, be it society, civilization or even planetary stability.

 

World one world governance, That age old dream, such a cliched trite thing, but probably the best hope of ever achieving anything meaningful.

[luckycooky]

Kill every Qunari i spot 

[Asdrubael Vect]

...did you just say economy and trade are useless and have no influence beyond the scope of nobles and merchants?

 

I was actually going to talk a bit about how the idea that Orlais has lead to the decay of science is ridiculous when they're one of the most advanced nations on Thedas with two universities and cities illuminated by glow lamps but... what's the point anymore?

okay...Tevinter does not lose anything if Orlais Empire will fall, the same will be with other kingdoms and 95% of their inhabitans exept those who exist because of trade with Orlais...this is was i talk about, Thedas lives in medieval times and does not have burse and other economy stuff what we have in our modern time...their money is from gold and other metals, not from paper and money from Ferelden would have the same price as money from Orlais and others

 

and who cares about economy and trade when Darkspawns, Qunari, Deamons attack and just those barbarians who does not have any economy and trade relations exept barter with those who they want...NOONE

 

Wut??? Orlais capital 'Celine university' who exist only ~15 years for Orlais wealthy nobles does not have anything except more advanced Chanty teachings(and Chantry does not like Celine university) for everybody...NOTHING REAL..the only ones who have a real education in Orlais is mostly circle mages because of ancient tevinters books-knoledges what Orlais Chantry does not burn

 

Tevinter, Nevarra, Dwarfs, Dalish are the only one who have real education and science...Andrastians Countries have censored by Orlais Chantry saved Ancient Tevinter knoledges who have it from elves and some from dwarfs.

[KainD]

lol it wasn't hard to read... first political stability isn't close to orlais as orlais is corrupted and self-destructive in own politics as dwarves were only behlen who crushed his opponents started move things in better way and political stability orlais isn't because as i said orlais is self-destructive...

Lol, it wasn't hard to read.. 

First, Orlais isn't close to being politically stable, as it is a corrupted and self-destructive society, much like the dwarven society. Only Bhalen, who crushed his opponents actually changed things for the better, and made things more politically stable. Orlais isn't as stable because as I said it is self-destructive. 

 

I'm sorry. xD

[Master Warder Z_]

lol it wasn't hard to read... first political stability isn't close to orlais as orlais is corrupted and self-destructive in own politics as dwarves were only behlen who crushed his opponents started move things in better way and political stability orlais isn't because as i said orlais is self-destructive...

 

Orlais is politically self destructive? In so far as the game of intrigue they play?

 

That's done for overt amusement for those who have the immense wealth to enjoy it, note however it doesn't become a focal point until you have people who step beyond that game, it tends to not end well for them. Because when it goes to that point it isn't intrigue, its espionage and treason and Orlais knows to how to treat those charges.

 

Ultimately that isn't much of a political weakness given the fact that until reason events prompted by the very game i mentioned brought things to a head, Perhaps Orlais will be free of the game, or perhaps not. Either way it ultimately isn't much of a weakness politically or society given that its an insular effect the majority of the time.

 

I think you are overstating the issue that comes with Orlais games of fancy.

 

We only have a singular noteworthy case were it resulted in something near to damaging.

[KainD]

No reason why you can't, I'm just saying at points some might need to be sacrificed in order to fulfill others, In which case would you be willing to sacrifice anything in order to follow that ideal?

 

I follow my own ideals and they are always just, truthful and free, real peace and innocents don't exist in my eyes.

[Master Warder Z_]

okay...Tevinter does not lose anything if Orlais Empire will fall, the same will be with other kingdoms and 95% of their inhabitans exept those who exist because of trade with Orlais...this is was i talk about, Thedas lives in medieval times and does not have burse and other economy stuff what we have in our modern time...their money is from gold and other metals, not from paper and money from Ferelden would have the same price as money from Orlais and others

 

and who cares about economy and trade when Darkspawns, Qunari, Deamons attack and just those barbarians who does not have any economy and trade relations exept barter with those who they want...NOONE

 

Wut??? Orlais capital 'university' who exist only  15 years for Orlais nobles does not have anything exept more advanced Chanty teachings for everybody...NOTHING REAL..the only ones who have a real education is circle mages because of ancient tevinters books-knoledges

 

...Are you intoxicated?

[KainD]

Down with Orlais! 

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Orlais is politically self destructive? In so far as the game of intrigue they play?

 

That's done for overt amusement for those who have the immense wealth to enjoy it, note however it doesn't become a focal point until you have people who step beyond that game, it tends to not end well for them. Because when it goes to that point it isn't intrigue, its espionage and treason and Orlais knows to how to treat those charges.

 

Ultimately that isn't much of a political weakness given the fact that until reason events prompted by the very game i mentioned brought things to a head, Perhaps Orlais will be free of the game, or perhaps not. Either way it ultimately isn't much of a weakness politically or society given that its an insular effect the majority of the time.

 

I think you are overstating the issue that comes with Orlais games of fancy.

 

We only have a singular noteworthy case were it resulted in something near to damaging.

 

First they destroy each other being intrested only in own good not in good of country pretty much why orlais have to deal with so many rebelions as well tevinter empire follow same rule and same consequences.Another matter they are wasting resources on fighting each other and planing screw another... so it is war in their own country... Well lets say that im not very nice type but i can see benefit in helping other peoples or making other peoples better. So ultimately society so as well orlais suffers the game as it is corruption and corruption is bad thing not only morally but also weakens the structure.Civil wars in orlais are common and civil wars are destructive. 

 

How i don't like qunari their methods are great (could be better) and far better than orlais no wonder that they are most advanced culture in setting.Orlais once was much more powerfull and they starting to lose power.

 

Same was with dwarven politics until behlen who crushed every his enemy and started rule alone.    

[Asdrubael Vect]

...Are you intoxicated?

okay...what part of what i wrote is wrong and why?

 

and this is Orlais exept swamps, desserts, forests, abandon ruins and Nevarra territory's

 

[Master Warder Z_]

First they destroy each other being intrested only in own good not in good of country pretty much why orlais have to deal with so many rebelions as well tevinter empire follow same rule and same consequences.Another matter they are wasting resources on fighting each other and planing screw another... so it is war in their own country... Well lets say that im not very nice type but i can see benefit in helping other peoples or making other peoples better. So ultimately society so as well orlais suffers the game as it is corruption and corruption is bad thing not only morally but also weakens the structure.Civil wars in orlais are common and civil wars are destructive. 

 

How i don't like qunari their methods are great (could be better) and far better than orlais no wonder that they are most advanced culture in setting.Orlais once was much more powerfull and they starting to lose power.

 

Same was with dwarven politics until behlen who crushed every his enemy and started rule alone.    

 

First off we only have one known rebellion, the one that may or may not be happening in DAI, So acting as if its a common historical occurrence when we only have the one on record isn't a compelling case.

 

Two, The game is put aside when it comes to matters of warfare and state, Orlais for the most part unites behind a decision when their ruler gives it one, The only notable reversal in their entire known history is the very one that occurred when Gaspard led his army against Celene to end the Grand Game. Again only one known example, not overly damning.

 

Three, Damning Orlais on the off chance it may or may not help elves, Mages or what have you is basically condemning the rest of the world to suffer through the ripple effect of losing said country, You would condemn Thedas to elevate a select few? How is that different from just spreading chaos? Your destroying an Empire with out replacing it.

 

Ultimately however i think Orlais is an institution that is here to stay, we shall see.

[MisterJB]

okay...Tevinter does not lose anything if Orlais Empire will fall, the same will be with other kingdoms and 95% of their inhabitans exept those who exist because of trade with Orlais...this is was i talk about, Thedas lives in medieval times and does not have burse and other economy stuff what we have in our modern time...their money is from gold and other metals, not from paper and money from Ferelden would have the same price as money from Orlais and others

 

and who cares about economy and trade when Darkspawns, Qunari, Deamons attack and just those barbarians who does not have any economy and trade relations exept barter with those who they want...NOONE

 

Wut??? Orlais capital 'university' who exist only  15 years for Orlais nobles does not have anything exept more advanced Chanty teachings for everybody...NOTHING REAL..the only ones who have a real education is circle mages because of ancient tevinters books-knoledges

 

Take the Anderfels, for example. Two Blights have begun inside that countrie's borders which has turned most of the nation's territory into a desert barely capable of supporting life.

On the other hand, the Free Marches are some of the most fertile lands and together, they produce more than half of the entire food of the continent. Food that they sell as exports to other countries like the Anderfels. Now, imagine just how many trade routes pass within Orlesian borders. Imagine what happens to these trade routes while you're "destroying Orlais".

Yep, the people of the Anderfels starve because of a war they have no involvment in.

Nevermind that if Orlais were to be destroyed, there would be a war between all countries in order to pick the spoils. Seriously, you can't envision how the destruction of an entire country would hurt people?

 

 

Is this the same Chantry that comissioned a study on the organs of the reanimated dead? It's a strange thing they didn't prevent the Human Noble from receiving a lesson in history by a human scholar in DAO since they are so interested in censoring knowledge.

Even if we were to accept the Chantry censors anything; of which we have no evidence; burning the only two universities in Thedas is not the way to educate the masses.

[Master Warder Z_]

okay...what part of what i wrote is wrong and why?

 

First off, Orlais is a major financial and military power when it comes to Thedas. From three separate occurrences we see them either directly or indirectly funding efforts at rebuilding, rearming or otherwise assisting Thedas, Just so they are intact from Qunari or Darkspawn Invasion so they can be eventually be merged into the Empire, but still its a major power you are seeking to displace.

 

First example, from records found in Duke Propser's Manse we find that Orlais Aristocracy under order from the Empress have been helping the funding of the rebuilding of Kirkwall from the brief Qunari Incursion of the City, and this is the very city state they sought to Conqueror not three centuries beforehand. Second Example Orlais if the Warden Commander is Orlaisian in Awakening, The Nobility again will fund the rebuilding efforts of the Arling's defenses as indicated in dialogue. Thirdly, Orlais has the only relatively safe land based trade routes with Fereldan, If Orlais collapses you have a Nation that only just recovered from a Blgiht relying entirely on Sea based Travel for the importation and shipping of goods.

 

Add in the fact Orlais is a major montary power in several Nations due to trading connections, and the Chantry and you begin to see why anything overly harming to this Empire starts to become a bad prospect if you have anything in mind beyond continental chaos by their disposal. Add in that again until their Military was split to the civil war between the various Lords and Ladies of the Empire, They maintained one of the largest known military forces in Thedas, Add in that given the recent incursion by Darkspawn, Qunari and what have you and having them at their strongest can only be a boon to protecting Thedas from said threats.

 

In finality, Orlais whether you like it or no, is a power in the world.

 

And its removal likely would cause far more harm then good, for generations.

[TheKomandorShepard]

First off we only have one known rebellion, the one that may or may not be happening in DAI, So acting as if its a common historical occurrence when we only have the one on record isn't a compelling case.

 

Two, The game is put aside when it comes to matters of warfare and state, Orlais for the most part unites behind a decision when their ruler gives it one, The only notable reversal in their entire known history is the very one that occurred when Gaspard led his army against Celene to end the Grand Game. Again only one known example, not overly damning.

 

Three, Damning Orlais on the off chance it may or may not help elves, Mages or what have you is basically condemning the rest of the world to suffer through the ripple effect of losing said country, You would condemn Thedas to elevate a select few? How is that different from just spreading chaos? Your destroying an Empire with out replacing it.

 

Ultimately however i think Orlais is an institution that is here to stay, we shall see.

 

riots are constantly in orlais considering how nobles treat other classes no wonder even pointed by alistair...

 

second the game is bulit on corruption and corruption weakens order going by that also weakens country structure improving life of majority can be benefical for society and increase productivity... when such thing as corrupted guards increase criminal part of the city going by that weaken that city.Nobles intrestend in fashion than making society prosper better is destructive as well they are corrupte.

 

Hmm from where idea that i want help elves or other small groups

[Dean_the_Young]

We all know that the Inquisitor's main goal is fixing the veil tear and finding whoever is responsible but what greater good will your inquisition work towards while achieving this goal and after it is accomplished.

 

My Inquisitor's greater good will be individual liberty, here are a few examples of what that greater good would entail.

 

1) Mage self-determiniation- mages should be free to choose what they do with there own lives, while being policed by either a reorganized Templar order, separate equivalents established by the nations of thedas or the Inquisition itself.

 

2) Ending the de jure oppression of elves, specifically the banning of elves possessing arms and armor and the requirement that they live in alienages.

 

3) Ending the state sponsored caste system of the subterranean dwarves.

 

So as the title says, what will your inquisitor's greater good be?

 

Out of curiosity, what is your foundation for 'individual liberty' in Thedas? What does it mean, and what is the rational or ideological justification for it?

 

Liberty, like equality, is something that means different things to different people, and without a unifying principle and foundation it can simply be an excuse for tyranny and oppression by an individual on others in the name of their infringements of her own liberty. After all, forcing restraint on someone is limiting their liberties.

 

So when you set out to individual liberty (a label that is frequently contrary and contradictory to 'greater good'), what will make your efforts more than the strongman of the hour threatening others to get their way and preferences?

 

 

For the issue of mages, how will you justify individuals restrictions on mages with mandated policing to mages who claim that doing so infringes with their individual liberty? And if you restrict mundanes from trying to do what they see as necessary to preserve their freedoms, why should they believe your individual freedoms deserves to usurp their group freedom?

 

For elves, how will you enforce demands against segregation that is in many respects mutual? Will you deny humans the individual liberty to house, hire, or sell to elves if they don't want to? Will you attempt to prevent them from having any means to push back, or will you strip them of arms to preserve the elves rights to weapons?

 

When you say you will end the Dwarven caste system- what will you do about people already in castes? Will you overthrow the nobility and kingdom and install a puppet government that reflects your views, regardless of the individual views of various parts of the populace? Will you rend the current castes, and force everyone to take different jobs and specialties at this time in their lives? That would be difficult at best, for a society on a permanent war footing against a constantly present foe- and what would be your measure of success, anyway? Radical change over five days? Weeks? Months? Years? Generations? Destroying the warrior caste on the front lines, replacing the smith castes and other specialties who have no good replacements, replacing the governmental bureacracy- that would be change, but it wouldn't necessarily work out well. But if you leave it to the future generations, you'll likely not see much change: so many people choose to follow what their parents were, especially in pre-universal education settings where family is the primary source of teaching.

 

 

 

I do hope you give it some thought. As it is, your greater good of 'personal liberty' is sounding quite a bit like 'personal preferences enforced on others', and easily allowing rollback by people concerned with their personal liberties and interests.