14909 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Yes, well you realize that our earlier discussion stemmed from the fact that the line came up due to a bug and that other people were joking about how it sounded when the Inquisitor was in a relationship with Blackwall, right? Look, you can be upset all you want if you hear it under other circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS perfectly harmless dialogue for 99% of people. What, did you somehow expect that BW would read your mind and know that one or two freaking lines of dialogue would upset you in particular?

 

Do you expect BW to issue trigger warnings with their games? Look, they simply can't account for every possible case of personal trauma that potential players may have experienced. Now I hate to be harsh, but deal with it - preferably by not taking Blackwall or Cole with you. Problem solved because you don't ever actually have to hear that dialogue in your game at all now that you know to watch out for it.

I realize that. I was just clarifying where the issue stemmed from. 

 

No, I don't expect them to be mind-readers. That is why I am posting my discomfort with it so they know. That is the purpose of this entire site: a way for Bioware and fans to give information to each other. 

 

Even with not having Rainier in the party, it is still something that can make some people uncomfortable and thus can be talked about. 

[Estelindis]

I am glad that he realizes what he did is terrible and is trying to atone, but at the same time the sheer magnitude of his crime is too serious to ever forgive. 

Yes, the magnitude of his crime is quite appalling.  Maybe it is too serious to forgive.  (My world-view says that forgiveness can conquer every sin, but I'm trying to look at things from more points of view than just my own.)  The thing is, the people who were wronged by his crime are dead.  They're the only ones who have the right to forgive what he did.  It would be presumptuous for anyone else to try.  

 

I think that the only thing the Inquisitor and co. have the right to forgive is him lying about his identity: but, as I've said to you before, his decision to lie about this is actually rooted in his desire to atone.  He couldn't be sure that he'd live (in order to be able to do good) if he didn't assume Blackwall's identity, and he didn't want that man's sacrifice to go in vain.  He was prepared to be Warden Thom Rainier before Warden Blackwall's death - to be known as a criminal and a murderer as well as a Warden - but that single event changed his circumstances irrevocably.  He could no longer be sure that he'd be accepted as a recruit.  In that situation, I think he wasn't wrong to lie.  Thus, I honestly think that the Inquisitor has nothing to forgive.

 

When he made the choice to assume another identity, the men under his command who he'd abandoned had mostly already suffered the consequences of his abandonment.  However, when another case came to the fore, he revealed who he really was.  That was the point when pretending to be someone else would have gone from an act enabling good to an act enabling evil.  He saw that and chose not to do further evil.

[Estelindis]

Even with not having Rainier in the party, it is still something that can make some people uncomfortable and thus can be talked about. 

But, if he's not in the party, the banter won't ever come up.  I'm not following you.  (Ignoring here, for the sake of argument, the fact that I think that nothing that Cole reveals of people's inner thoughts should be held against them.)

[Jaron Oberyn]

But, if he's not in the party, the banter won't ever come up.  I'm not following you.  (Ignoring here, for the sake of argument, the fact that I think that nothing that Cole reveals of people's inner thoughts should be held against them.)

 

I think what he's saying is that even if it doesn't come up in banter should you choose a different party composition, Blackwall still does it you just don't hear about it. 

[raging_monkey]

My game's audio is messy sometimes is blackwall's name pronouced "Tom" or "Thom". Great quality except when saying his name XD

[Sabreenei]

I actually enjoy the banter between the companions and Blackwall regarding Josie, I find it rather cute.

 

From one of the banters I listened to (on youtube) it sounds like they both like one another, because one of the companions asks something like, aren't they going to do anything but stand around together?? and Blackwall replies something to the effect that it is 'courtly' love. Was cute to me. I found the banter between Dorian and Iron Bull fun, too.

[Xilizhra]

What Blackwall did was horrible and inexcusable. It's also unfixable. As such, the only question for me is whether Blackwall will do more good dead or alive. Since he seems to have redeemed himself and is no longer evil, I have no real problem keeping him around.

[AtreiyaN7]

 

 

I realize that. I was just clarifying where the issue stemmed from. 

 

No, I don't expect them to be mind-readers. That is why I am posting my discomfort with it so they know. That is the purpose of this entire site: a way for Bioware and fans to give information to each other. 

 

Even with not having Rainier in the party, it is still something that can make some people uncomfortable and thus can be talked about. 

 

 

Talk all you want about it, but I'd like to see how many people actually find this anything more than harmless dialogue. Per what Sabreenei says up above, there's actually every indication that it's probably a mutual attraction - it's just that they're both too shy/reluctant to actually do anything. And I will also remind you that if you don't romance a potential LI, they can hook up just like Bull and Dorian do. This Blackwall and Josephine thing is exactly the same - just with more embarrassing revelations and dialogue thanks to Cole butting in with his mind-reading.

[Jaron Oberyn]

I actually enjoy the banter between the companions and Blackwall regarding Josie, I find it rather cute.

 

From one of the banters I listened to (on youtube) it sounds like they both like one another, because one of the companions asks something like, aren't they going to do anything but stand around together?? and Blackwall replies something to the effect that it is 'courtly' love. Was cute to me. I found the banter between Dorian and Iron Bull fun, too.

Actually I remember someone saying that when asked about it Josephine said she wasn't interested in him, or something to that effect. 

 

Talk all you want about it, but I'd like to see how many people actually find this anything more than harmless dialogue. Per what Sabreenei says up above, there's actually every indication that it's probably a mutual attraction - it's just that they're both too shy/reluctant to actually do anything. And I will also remind you that if you don't romance a potential LI, they can hook up just like Bull and Dorian do. This Blackwall and Josephine thing is exactly the same - just with more embarrassing revelations and dialogue thanks to Cole butting in with his mind-reading.

 

Dorian/IB are the only companion pairings if not romanced. No one else. 

[Bugsie]

 

I actually enjoy the banter between the companions and Blackwall regarding Josie, I find it rather cute.

 

From one of the banters I listened to (on youtube) it sounds like they both like one another, because one of the companions asks something like, aren't they going to do anything but stand around together?? and Blackwall replies something to the effect that it is 'courtly' love. Was cute to me. I found the banter between Dorian and Iron Bull fun, too.

I like it too, because Blackwall is respectful for the most part in regard to his actual interactions with her as opposed to his thoughts on her.  Many men would think she is lovely, sweet and sexy.  Hell if I was a guy...

 

In actions, he doesn't want to act because he doesn't want any woman to have to deal with his past life sh*t, not just the inquisitor.  But us Inquisitors are made of sterner stuff, we can deal, then we get to roll in the hay.  

 

 

What Blackwall did was horrible and inexcusable. It's also unfixable. As such, the only question for me is whether Blackwall will do more good dead or alive. Since he seems to have redeemed himself and is no longer evil, I have no real problem keeping him around.

The majority of people won't justify it, and yeah very unfixable.  

 

Spoiler

I'd find it hard to call it truly evil act considering the real baddies here, I mean is it only evil because innocents are involved?  if say he was alone with his advisors and not family would it be less evil given the overall rivalries and court dramas of who wants to be on the throne?

[AtreiyaN7]

Actually I remember someone saying that when asked about it Josephine said she wasn't interested in him, or something to that effect. 

 

 

Dorian/IB are the only companion pairings if not romanced. No one else. 

 

Okay, then let's amend that to: Blackwall and Josephine can hook up just like Iron Bull and Dorian do, since it's only them. The result is still the same - people can hook up with other people (but it's limited to these four people) - which is still perfectly normal.

[AresKeith]

Okay, then let's amend that to: Blackwall and Josephine can hook up just like Iron Bull and Dorian do, since it's only them. The result is still the same - people can hook up with other people (but it's limited to these four people) - which is still perfectly normal.

 

Actually from what I noticed around that Blackwall and Josie never really hooked up

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

I'd find it hard to call it truly evil act considering the real baddies here, I mean is it only evil because innocents are involved?  if say he was alone with his advisors and not family would it be less evil given the overall rivalries and court dramas of who wants to be on the throne?

Spoiler

I think most of Orlais' nobility is mostly evil. It's worse because of innocents, but it still would have been evil otherwise.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Okay, then let's amend that to: Blackwall and Josephine can hook up just like Iron Bull and Dorian do, since it's only them. The result is still the same - people can hook up with other people (but it's limited to these four people) - which is still perfectly normal.

Dorian and IB are the only characters in game that hook up. The only ones, no one else does. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Josephine and Rainier never become a couple. In fact, 

Spoiler

when Josephine is engaged to Lord Otranto, unlike the Inquisitior who can duel him to end the engagement, Rainier doesn't interfere with the engagement.

 

[Estelindis]

Josephine and Rainier never become a couple. In fact, 

Spoiler

when Josephine is engaged to Lord Otranto, unlike the Inquisitior who can duel him to end the engagement, Rainier doesn't interfere with the engagement.

 

That plot never came up in my game.  Maybe it only happens if the Inquisitor romances her?  I mean, you can hardly take him to task for not interfering in something that doesn't happen - and, in a case where it does happen, when the Inquisitor romances her, it would be super-rude for him to try and interfere then.  So I really don't see what you can logically hold against him in this regard.

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

Blackwall is a weasle a coward a pretender he should be hanged.

[RobRam10]

I like TR.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Talk all you want about it, but I'd like to see how many people actually find this anything more than harmless dialogue. Per what Sabreenei says up above, there's actually every indication that it's probably a mutual attraction - it's just that they're both too shy/reluctant to actually do anything. And I will also remind you that if you don't romance a potential LI, they can hook up just like Bull and Dorian do. This Blackwall and Josephine thing is exactly the same - just with more embarrassing revelations and dialogue thanks to Cole butting in with his mind-reading.

I never said people couldn't disagree with me thinking he is a stalker. Last time it was brought up, I was the one being told to stop.

 

The majority of people won't justify it, and yeah very unfixable.  

 

Spoiler

I'd find it hard to call it truly evil act considering the real baddies here, I mean is it only evil because innocents are involved?  if say he was alone with his advisors and not family would it be less evil given the overall rivalries and court dramas of who wants to be on the throne?

 

Less evil, yes. Still evil, yes. 

 

But, if he's not in the party, the banter won't ever come up.  I'm not following you.  (Ignoring here, for the sake of argument, the fact that I think that nothing that Cole reveals of people's inner thoughts should be held against them.)

As Jaron pointed out, it still happens even if you don't hear the banter about it. To use another example, Fenris and Isabela still hook up as sex friends if neither are romanced regardless of whether Hawke hears the banter or not. 

 

That plot never came up in my game.  Maybe it only happens if the Inquisitor romances her?  I mean, you can hardly take him to task for not interfering in something that doesn't happen - and, in a case where it does happen, when the Inquisitor romances her, it would be super-rude for him to try and interfere then.  So I really don't see what you can logically hold against him in this regard.

I know it doesn't come up unless she is romanced. I was just saying that it was confirmed that plot point still happens and that is Rainier's reaction to it. 

I wasn't holding that against him. Just explaining how the "relationship" goes down. 

[Bugsie]

Blackwall is a weasle a coward a pretender he should be hanged.

Leave him in Val Royeux then.  They have the noose ready for him.

 

I may do that for a playthrough, but I'd have to have the right inquisitor for it to play out well in my mind.  Plus he's an awesome combat companion.

[Ynqve]

I saw the Blackwall/Josephine thing as them being shy and that both are waiting for the other one to make the first move. When it comes to the banter, it's going to seem a bit weird because of two things:

1. Since Josephine isn't a companion, we won't hear her side of the story. We only get his.

2. Cole is a mind reader. Of course he's going to make things creepier than they are. 

 

If someone were to read my mind on an average day I'm sure they would be shocked. Not just because of the occasional sexual thought, but because the mind wanders. Sometimes you think about things you shouldn't think about or things that you don't want anyone else to find out. 

[Ynqve]

Leave him in Val Royeux then.  They have the noose ready for him.

 

I may do that for a playthrough, but I'd have to have the right inquisitor for it to play out well in my mind.  Plus he's an awesome combat companion.

 

Yeah, they just had to make him the best tank in the game. I'm sure there are people who really hated him after the reveal but saved him just because he's an awesome tank. xD

[AresKeith]

Yeah, they just had to make him the best tank in the game. I'm sure there are people who really hated him after the reveal but saved him just because he's an awesome tank. xD

 

Eh I wouldn't say the best tank in the game, that's debatable between him and Cass

[Estelindis]

 

I know it doesn't come up unless she is romanced. I was just saying that it was confirmed that plot point still happens and that is Rainier's reaction to it. 

I wasn't holding that against him. Just explaining how the "relationship" goes down. 

But there is no "relationship" in the Inquisitor romances her.  Any indication otherwise is a bug.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Eh I wouldn't say the best tank in the game, that's debatable between him and Cass

 

The Champion specialization pretty much makes him the best tank in the game, 100%. I don't think Blackwall ever once got a low health indicator for me, even in dragon fights. It was glorious.