Oh please. It may have had some credibility if the first thing he did when you met him was going "hey baby, wanna try out some of my tainted love", had sex with your Inquisitor then and there and then went "lol sorry, I just wanted to get laid BYE!".
Your inquisitor has a relationship with him, that's completely different. Otherwise someone who finds out (after a having been involved for a time) that their partner has a different sexuality/gender identity/ political beliefs/ religion etc than they thought would be able to prosecute them for rape. That's not how it works!
...So what you are saying is he has to be a total ****** from the start in order for what he did to be counted as deception, and his lying is perfectly OK because he entered a long-term relationship with you on false pretenses.
...So what you are saying is he has to be a total ****** from the start in order for what he did to be counted as deception, and his lying is perfectly OK because he entered a long-term relationship with you on false pretenses.
Rrrrrrrrright.
I'm saying that you've got the whole thing wrong. The two examples in the Wikipedia article was very, very different from this.
Calling this rape is frankly an insult to real rape victims.
Edit: And are you seriously saying that he's just lying to the Inquisitor to get laid? Because that's what he would have to do in order to be charged with this.
Awwww I just finished a fight where Hella took damage (this is very rare at this point) and Blackwall said "Are you alright, love?"
Is that a common comment? I hadn't heard it before! But I have the banter issue and I'm a stealthy high level rogue with Blackwall tanking, so I rarely take damage.
Same here I am a stealthy dual wield rogue and he's my tank and I never, NEVER heard him ask me if I was all right after a battle, but I heard him ask Vivienne
No, I'm not going to clarify it further, suffice to say my idea of consent obviously differs from yours and I don't wish to explain why that is to some random stranger with one post count.
If you're calling him a rapist I just don't know where to even begin with that. That's a mighty strong reaction that I doubt anything I say would or could change that way of thinking.
I
Um. This is a forum. I do not see how my post count has to do with anything; I explained why this issue was meaningful to me, and it motivated me to join the discussion. In a forum, people often discuss important and or complex issues on any given topic. Everyone here is a stranger to one another. Cool, though.
Just because the game presented you with the option to not pursue a romantic relationship with him, does not mean he did not deceive you the entire time. He led you to believe he was someone else entirely. He gained my sexual consent because of who I thought he was, not who he is. Him waltzing up to your bedroom and begging you to end it as he is attempting to get steamy is really muddy as far as consent goes.
I remember that whole thing, and my personal perception of what happened is that he really did not want to lead you on and really didn't even want the relationship to happen at all.
Now he might be using a false identity, but hey, I'm 99% sure that he did not join the Inquisition with the intention of trying to get into anyone's pants, especially not the pants of the Herald of Andraste. I think the whole deal with this "rape by deception" thing is that there has to be an actual intent to purposely deceive someone into having sex with them, and that's just not the case here.
I do have a simple solution to your problem if you really believe that that's what happened: you leave him in prison and let the Orlesians execute him. *shrug*
Kaidan Fan, Who Knows, Ynqve et 3 autres aiment ceci
I'm saying that you've got the whole thing wrong. The two examples in the Wikipedia article was very, very different from this.
Calling this rape is frankly an insult to real rape victims.
Edit: And are you seriously saying that he's just lying to the Inquisitor to get laid? Because that's what he would have to do in order to be charged with this.
I really do not see where I "have the whole thing wrong." Are you... implying he only has to be after sex in order to deceive the Inquisitor into trusting him enough to have sex with her? He does not have to have a one track mind in order to deceive her. Like, if you met a guy or girl and they told you they were a lawyer and a black belt and saved a family trapped in a building from fire, but instead mugged and shot a dude in cold blood and in fact was unemployed and only told you about it after you shared intimacy, would you feel the same about them? Then they go on and tell you "...But I really do like you!" would you be like "LOL COOL LET'S DATE?" Like, the concept really is not that hard.
Um. This is a forum. I do not see how my post count has to do with anything; I explained why this issue was meaningful to me, and it motivated me to join the discussion. In a forum, people often discuss important and or complex issues on any given topic. Everyone here is a stranger to one another. Cool, though.
I don't know you the others here don't know you, and the history of BSN is that people with low post counts have often thrown discussion grenades (like your first unedited post given no context or explanation) then p*ss off leaving people to clean up the mess. If you're here for honest discussion though, all good.
I remember my first topic on BSN, it pissed off a lot of people. I called Kolyat Krios a whiny emo. LOL.
It's a shame you felt that way about the romance in the end, and I doubt I could convince you otherwise, and sorry, but I totally disagree with you on that count, the wiki examples are nothing like we have here, IMO.
This was my biggest issue with Blackwall. I could have forgiven him for what he did, but the way he ran with it for so long, and refused to tell me anything until after I slept with him. This was beyond slimeball. There is a big consent issue here. Has anyone else considered this?
OMG this is really gross ... rape by deception? Do I have to reply to this? Ok, hoping you're just not a troll -and in this case I'm just wasting my time- I'll do it.
Blackwall/Rainier never flirted with the Inquisitor but it's the Inquisitor who flirts with him, you have to go through all the flirt options in Haven in order to have the romance go on in Skyhold as far as I know.
In Skyhold he turns you down because he's perfectly aware of the fact that you're in love with a man who doesn't exist and he doesn't feel it's right.
If you complete his pesonal quest in the Storm Coast he will show up in your room begging you to end the romance story because at this point (after you kept hitting on him repeatedly for weeks) he's totally in love with your Inquisitor and doesn't have the strength to do it himself.
If you break the romance at this point he APPROVES!
I don't know you the others here don't know you, and the history of BSN is that people with low post counts have often thrown discussion grenades (like your first unedited post given no context or explanation) then p*ss off leaving people to clean up the mess. If you're here for honest discussion though, all good.
I remember my first topic on BSN, it pissed off a lot of people. I called Kolyat Krios a whiny emo. LOL.
It's a shame you felt that way about the romance in the end, and I doubt I could convince you otherwise, and sorry, but I totally disagree with you on that count, the wiki examples are nothing like we have here, IMO.
I really do not see where I "have the whole thing wrong." Are you... implying he only has to be after sex in order to deceive the Inquisitor into trusting him enough to have sex with her? He does not have to have a one track mind in order to deceive her. Like, if you met a guy or girl and they told you they were a lawyer and a black belt and saved a family trapped in a building from fire, but instead mugged and shot a dude in cold blood and in fact was unemployed and only told you about it after you shared intimacy, would you feel the same about them? Like, the concept really is not that hard.
URgggghhhhhh
He doesn't decieve you in order to seduce you and have sex with you. That is not his intent, that is not what he wanted and in fact he's so against the idea that you basically have to drag him to your bed. His behavior doesn't fit the definition AT ALL.
He doesn't decieve you in order to seduce you and have sex with you. That is not his intent, that is not what he wanted and in fact he's so against the idea that you basically have to drag him to your bed. His behavior doesn't fit the definition AT ALL.
In fact, if anyone could be accused of something like a sexual crime in this situation it is the Inquisitor. She keeps pushing for a relationship with an unwilling Rainier until eventually his resolve to keep you at a distance breaks.
I am no fan of Rainier, but even I don't think he is a rapist.
Blackwall's intent wasn't to lie to you to get you into bed. He fell in love with you. He wanted to end the relationship, but he was too in love with you and too weak (at that point) to end it himself, so he begs you to do it. Then with the later scene, he's finally decided to be a strong person. To end the deception and tell the truth about who he is. But he tells himself you would be happier never knowing the truth, and thinks he can turn himself in and probably die before you ever find out. In the conversation before he leaves, you can choose not to sleep with him. If you do sleep with him, it's all the inquisitor's idea and he tries to say again that he's not good enough. Basically the two of you decide to live for the moment. He never once lies to you about his feelings. He may have assumed an identity, but he became that that identity to the best of his ability. He is not faking being a good person at this point in time.
((Plus, in my game, the sex in the loft was definitely not the first time they were together. It was just the first time I as a player see it. Because in my head canon there's no way after that first kiss in the bedroom that they didn't go right to the bed.))
People feel strongly about this topic. I'm involved with the ouat fandom (once upon a time) as a Hook and Emma fan. (Now there's a fandom where we get accused hourly of only liking Hook because he's hot!!). There are people convinced that if not a rapist, that he personifies rape culture. I'm stridently against that notion (otherwise I wouldn't be a fan), but I understand sometimes people have personal opinions about these things. If you have a strong personal opinion, there is usually no changing your mind.
I myself will never believe it of either character, but there are those who will never not believe it. Usually it has to do with where they want to draw the line of consent. To me, if I was with someone for months and we were in love, and then it turned out he'd been lying the whole time about his past and who he was, it would never ever cross my mind to define that as rape. A super dick move, yeah. But calling it rape (to me) belittles the true horrible crime.
I'm sorry you felt so betrayed by the revelation, but hopefully there is another character out there that will give you a better storyline. I haven't spoilered myself on all of Solas's details, but I'd suggest Cullen or Josephine as a good choice.
edited: added spoiler tags, just in case
mordy_was_here, Estelindis, TheComfyCat et 5 autres aiment ceci
In fact, is anyone could be accused of something like a sexual crime in this situation it is the Inquisitor. She keeps pushing for a relationship despite Rainier not wanting to have a relationship until eventually his resolve to keep you at a distance breaks.
Lol I actually begun typing something like that and then changed my mind. But you're right. If anyone is guilty of some kind of sexual assault, it's the Inquisitor.
OMG this is really gross ... rape by deception? Do I have to reply to this? Ok, hoping you're just not a troll -and in this case I'm just wasting my time- I'll do it.
Blackwall/Rainier never flirted with the Inquisitor but it's the Inquisitor who flirts with him, you have to go through all the flirt options in Haven in order to have the romance go on in Skyhold as far as I know.
In Skyhold he turns you down because he's perfectly aware of the fact that you're in love with a man who doesn't exist and he doesn't feel it's right.
If you complete his pesonal quest in the Storm Coast he will show up in your room begging you to end the romance story because at this point (after you kept hitting on him repeatedly for weeks) he's totally in love with your Inquisitor and doesn't have the strength to do it himself.
If you break the romance at this point he APPROVES!
Do I have to go on?
You are aware the whole reason we choose to pursue Blackwall is because we think he his Blackwall. I mean, unless you knew he was an awful person putting money above human life the whole time and still wanted to bang him.
This is key. It does not matter how many times he tried to push the Inquisitor away, because we never know why he is pushing her away. For all I know, he could have seen something really bad fighting heroically as a Grey Warden and it left him unable to express himself fully. We never know the extent of his crime. We never know his real name. We never know who he actually was or what he actually accomplished. We think he is who he says he is, and he never says otherwise until after you have sex with him. You fall in love and have sex with the man whose persona he adopted, not Thom Rainier. I would never have slept with Thom Rainier.
Lol I actually begun typing something like that and then changed my mind. But you're right. If anyone is guilty of some kind of sexual assault, it's the Inquisitor.
This whole "discussion" is ridiculous.
Yeah. Part of me can't help but laugh since it makes my whole thing about him being a stalker seem tame in comparison.
In fact, if anyone could be accused of something like a sexual crime in this situation it is the Inquisitor. She keeps pushing for a relationship with an unwilling Rainier until eventually his resolve to keep you at a distance breaks.
I am no fan of Rainier, but even I don't think he is a rapist.
...You are blaming the Inquisitor for being trusting of a guy who is open to her advances? Are you kidding me...?
You are aware the whole reason we choose to pursue Blackwall is because we think he his Blackwall. I mean, unless you knew he was an awful person putting money above human life the whole time and still wanted to bang him.
This is key. It does not matter how many times he tried to push the Inquisitor away, because we never know why he is pushing her away. For all I know, he could have seen something really bad fighting heroically as a Grey Warden and it left him unable to express himself fully. We never know the extent of his crime. We never know his real name. We never know who he actually was or what he actually accomplished. We think he is who he says he is, and he never says otherwise until after you have sex with him. You fall in love and have sex with the man whose persona he adopted, not Thom Rainier. I would never have slept with Thom Rainier.
Except by this point Thom Rainier and Blackwall may as well be the same person. Other than the crime he commited. Thom Rainier was a completely changed man by the time you meet him.
Yeah, to me any consent issues are on Quizzies side. Bioware games often have awkward commander-subordinate relationships... I mean she literally has the power to send him to his death at any time and she's incessantly hitting on him.
He doesn't decieve you in order to seduce you and have sex with you. That is not his intent, that is not what he wanted and in fact he's so against the idea that you basically have to drag him to your bed. His behavior doesn't fit the definition AT ALL.
In haven I literally told him to come to my quarters soon after I met him in Haven and he greatly approved and basically said OK. It wasn't much of a drag. Iron Bull is much, much more of a "drag."
In haven I literally told him to come to my quarters soon after I met him in Haven and he greatly approved and basically said OK. It wasn't much of a drag. Iron Bull is much, much more of a "drag."
He didn't say ok. Now you're just making **** up.
mordy_was_here, Kaidan Fan et Who Knows aiment ceci
In haven I literally told him to come to my quarters soon after I met him in Haven and he greatly approved and basically said OK. It wasn't much of a drag. Iron Bull is much, much more of a "drag."
And then he freaks out and tells you that it's a bad idea and begs you to end it with him. But sure, why don't you ignore that.
You are aware the whole reason we choose to pursue Blackwall is because we think he his Blackwall. I mean, unless you knew he was an awful person putting money above human life the whole time and still wanted to bang him.
This is key. It does not matter how many times he tried to push the Inquisitor away, because we never know why he is pushing her away. For all I know, he could have seen something really bad fighting heroically as a Grey Warden and it left him unable to express himself fully. We never know the extent of his crime. We never know his real name. We never know who he actually was or what he actually accomplished. We think he is who he says he is, and he never says otherwise until after you have sex with him. You fall in love and have sex with the man whose persona he adopted, not Thom Rainier. I would never have slept with Thom Rainier.
This is key. It is key because we know he is hiding something, we know he doesn't want a relationship because he feels he's a terrible person that doesn't deserve our character, but even knowing that, our character pursues him. If she wanted to know the whole truth about him before she slept with him, then she shouldn't have slept with him. Pretty much all the lines you have available to continue the relationship and get Blackwall to kiss/sleep with you, are lines saying you don't care what it is, no matter what, or, forget the past and live for the now.
edit: It's basically saying, I know you're keeping something from me, but I don't care, let's do this anyway. It doesn't matter that the thing being kept is much bigger than she thought, she knew something was being kept.
I guess he's a polarising character, well for some. And really strong feelings are hard to dissuade without sounding like your being dismissive of others perceptions which are valid to them (possibly to them alone). But that dismissive feeling can go both ways.
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I am a stealthy dual wield rogue and he's my tank and I never, NEVER heard him ask me if I was all right after a battle, but I heard him ask Vivienne 
