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[GreenClover]

They thing they have in common that most don't: they all left Hawke in the fade.

I have a friend who says he got the dialogue option even though he didn't leave Hawke in the Fade. Although when I gave him veeia's video to watch he was a bit uncertain whether he really saw that conversation or he's just imagining things. I hope it's not related to Hawke anyways, I don't want to trade mine for a short dialogue with Blackwall D:

[Gilsa]

@gilsa: Ah, I've forgiven the Wardens every time, so I had not seen the exiled version of that war table misson - cool. I think this is probably the only time I'll ever see that. I have a soft spot for Wardens a la Leliana, so I just can't make myself exile them - hehe.

I think I sat in my chair for maybe five minutes before I made a decision on what to do with the Grey Wardens. I was really conflicted. I was not emotionally invested in the Divine stuff so the bickering between Stroud and Hawke did not sway me. (As a non-believing Cadash, there was no dog in that race.) There was nothing to "forgive." I considered how easily Corypheus manipulated the Grey Wardens and I envisioned him somehow turning them against me in a potential boss fight in the end. I decided to send them away for their own safety and to take potential pawns off Corypheus' battlefield. This was all on the first game where I had no idea how it would actually end. You know, make bad choices with good intentions. =p

I was nervous because I lost Alistair at Landsmeet for making a strategic choice (I was thinking of the end game, the archdemon, how a general with his massive army would be an asset rather than the petty human politics -- I had no idea I was merely trading one man for another in my party line-up, ugh). I considered the possibility that history would repeat itself with Blackwall, but I couldn't let a romance be the driving force of my game. I was surprised and relieved that it was a non-issue after all. Yay!

Also, the bonus RP reason for not giving Blackwall to the Grey Wardens was that I just exiled them. Why would I send him to an army that had been hobbled by both Corypheus and the Inquisition? Best that he stayed.

[veeia]

Hrm, re: those data points.

Olim did not get the convo and he's a speed play, I had Revelations at 30 hours. Just added him to the form. 

About to trigger it (hopefully tonight at least ) with a Quizzie who did talk to him before Hawke/Crestwood, is a slower playthrough, and will not sacrifice Hawke, so interested to see where that goes. I really want an answer, if it's a random bug that will drive me nuts, lmao, unless it's fixed.

[CredulousAlloy]

Just filled in the form - here's hoping we can somehow get to the bottom of this!

Thanks to Sabreenei and all the other detectives hard at work on this incredibly important and complex case. Here, have some Blackwall:



Aaaand now I can't unsee what looks like some straw sticking out of his nose. Jeez, Blackwall, I know Sera joked about you and the Inquisitor getting hay up your nooks (crannies) but I thought at least some orifices were left unscathed.

[AtreiyaN7]

@credulous: LOL!

[Kaidan Fan]

I have 3 completed pts. 

 

1rst has Celene ruling alone and Stroud in the fade.

2nd has all 3 ruling and Hawke left in the fade.

3rd has Gaspard ruling and Loghain in the fade.

 

No such convo with Blackwall for any of them.  All 3 exhausted all convo with him in Haven.  Only the 1rst was in a romance with him.  Does this help any?  Or just make it more confusing?

 

Also...I have never gotten any of that conversation in the Hissing Wastes either.  And I spent many hours there because I LOVE that place.  I don't like banter bug. 

 

Edit:  I also just checked the pt that I filled out your form with and I had entered 20 - 25 hours to get to Skyhold and it was 31:09.

[AtreiyaN7]

@kaidan: Yeah, that's why I now travel everywhere that I can via the war table - better safe than sorry since that does seem to help with the banter bug (usually, anyway).

[Kaidan Fan]

@kaidan: Yeah, that's why I now travel everywhere that I can via the war table - better safe than sorry since that does seem to help with the banter bug (usually, anyway).

Maybe I should just give in and start doing that myself. 

[veeia]

More data always makes things more confusing and helps, hehe. Halfway through Adamant now, but I have to stop my hobbyist data work to do some of my educational data work (coding), lmao. Will update more. I've gotten to the point where this is just fun. I shoulda been a QA person, I guess.

[Sabreenei]

I work from a home office, so I keep going back and forth between my real work and looking at the spreadsheet & thread, lol. I know I'll pay for it, because I have some things due tomorrow. The more I put off now, the later I'll be up tonight!

 

@Kaidan - I finally gave up and started doing most/all my traveling through the war table, and it's really made a difference.

 

We need more data, but it is looking like there might be a Hawke factor. All five people who have indicated they got the conversation have left Hawke in the fade.

 

Right now my hypothesis is that there are at least two flags, one with the Grey Warden (Stroud, Alistair, Loghain) surviving, and then at least one more that needs to happen for the conversation to turn on. Those secondary plot flags could have to do with Celene, but there is something we've yet to figure out (since Kaidan Fan left Hawke, saved Celene & still didn't get the convo!).

[veeia]

Ok I used to find it endearing that Hawke ruins everything, but NOW IM MAD!!!!

(Jk I love Hawke)

[Sabreenei]

Kaidan Fan, Veeia & Bugsie (and anyone else that left Hawke in the fade and/or got the extra dialogue),

 

Could you answer these extra questions:

 

Did you do Hushed Whispers/Mages or Champions of the Just/Templars?

 

Did you Ally or Conscript?

 

Did you finish Keep the Darkspawn down (killing the darkspawn on the Storm Coast) by the time of judgement: Yes, No - didn't have the quest, No - didn't start the quest, No - started but didn't finish the quest, or I have no effing clue! lol

 

The well choice and arbor wilds should have nothing to do with it, since that happens afterwards. Just trying to think of other things that could flag the conversation!

[Catwall]

I'll try leaving Hawke this time around. I didn't import a save, so it's just the cranky default dude Hawke, who just makes me yawn. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[alialias]

Well this calls for as new character, I think I could only sacrifice Hawke for Alistair. I have be wanting to do a bad Hawke and kind of prefer Alistair as a grey warden... Now just have to find the time. Of course I'll have to romance Blackwall again.

[veeia]

With the character who got the dialogue: Mages, ally, and no effing idEA, but I can figure it out. Oh actually my character who didn't get it also allied with the mages but fadestomped the warden...hrm....

Just got home and I'm gonna finish Adamant. I'll save right before the final fight so I can try both Hawke and Alistair and see if it changes that dialogue option since revelations should trigger right after I do the quest.

(I could try it with my character who did get the dialogue but that would require me to do wicked hearts again which honestly wouldn't take me THAT long but I'll try this first)

[veeia]

I'm still worried it has to do with when you first talk to Hawke, which is so much harder to test. Hope all our fade stomping tests yield results.

[Sabreenei]

I'm still worried it has to do with when you first talk to Hawke, which is so much harder to test. Hope all our fade stomping tests yield results.

 

I know -- I'm actually worried it's twofold -- what you do with Hawke in the Fade, and then something early on. Maybe something hard to test, like if you went to Crestwood at a certain time, or the order you talked to Blackwall, Hawke, Crestwood, etc.

 

There is one person that got the conversation that spoke with Hawke at Skyhold before walking the battlements with Blackwall.

 

So I'm also considering it has something to do with the Wardens, and it's not leaving Hawke so much as it is saving the Warden (whoever it was). Then maybe it's tied to something else Warden-y.

 

I have a fake DA2 game state I imported to go with my Amell-Alistair Grey Wardens forever heart heart heart DAO game. I made a fake DA2 so I could make a really crappy Hawke I wouldn't care about sacrificing (so much). It was intended to do Cullen's romance, but you know, I may just have to change that path. For science!!!

 

Of course, if we get any confirmed people who watch veeia's video and got the banter w/a saved Hawke, then this all goes out the window!

 

(@greenclover, I saw your post about your friend, but since he couldn't quite remember veeia's video, I haven't counted him as a yay or nay)

[KealaFerret]

More data always makes things more confusing and helps, hehe. Halfway through Adamant now, but I have to stop my hobbyist data work to do some of my educational data work (coding), lmao. Will update more. I've gotten to the point where this is just fun. I shoulda been a QA person, I guess.

Hah! Well, it DOES pay pretty well. But on the flip side, I am so buried in data analysis, planning, gathering customer feedback, and writing code for my QA day job that i've had no time to help. I feel bad. If I get the house clean in time tonight, maybe. If nothing else, I want to do a couple of experiments.

I am soooooo tired of designing success metrics this week. And it's only Monday.

I made most (possibly all) of the decisions that are common to the people that did get the dialogue (and I didn't) so now I'm curious.

This correlation vs causation deal is going to eat at me. There's so many decisions and factors, and weird bugs in there (like the custom Hawke changes your voice one, which is just weird).

... I am twitching. :: twitch ::

[AtreiyaN7]

I hope it doesn't involve Hawke - I saved my snarky Hawke because she's still with Anders (yes, I really know how to pick those LIs...).

[Sabreenei]

I saved my snarky Hawke with Anders, too! (I love Anders, I can't help it.)

 

One thing I just noticed:

 

I went back to my original game, and replayed the end of Adamant (thank god for all those saves!). When they get back from the fade & Hawke is saved, Blackwall has the option of giving a speech to the Wardens. After judging, in the dialogue wheel about the Wardens, there's one of those little star options that let's you remind him of this.

 

When I saved Stroud & left Hawke, Stroud spoke when we got back and I never had the option to let Blackwall make a speech too.

 

I'm wondering if that has something to do with it? If one overrides the other?

 

edit: there's obviously another flag somewhere too, since we have people that left Hawke/saved the Warden & didn't get the convo. I still have no idea on that front!

[Bugsie]

Leave my snarky Hawke in the fade this playthrough?

 

He's far too gorgeous for that to happen anytime soon (I'd link a picture but it says they don't take tumblr pics? Huh???).  Sorry Warden Commander Sexy moustache, I will be leaving you behind this time.

[veeia]

keala (edit: wrong KF at first!!), don't feel bad! I wouldn't even want to run tests if I had the time for it probably if I was you, lmao. It's fun for me because I'm a SAHM and my concentration is always shattered and disrupted , so puzzling out stuff like this is a welcome change.

And honestly, there are so many variables and our data is so limited, who even knows. Maybe you only get that dialogue if you didn't customize your Hawke, or you started your game on an odd numbered day, or whatever. BUT IM GONNA KEEP SEEING if we can find a one or two obvious variable solution.

...unft my character at Adamant is my NM run and I had to go back and respec...so...it's taking longer, lmao.

But yeah, this game should be fun, only play BLACKWALL DIALOGUE DETECTIVE if it's fun for you and you have time to indulge in such fun otherwise just grab dat ass and make out at the barn and swoon and post about your swooning and we will all swoon along. I actually did a lot of the banter bug testing stuff at first in Feedback, to the point where I was emailing with devs and such, but I had to stop because it was ruining my fun and I'm happy to help but it ain't my job so I finished up my tests and pulled out.

[AtreiyaN7]

@sab: I do remember that on the first playthrough, I took Cass, Varric, and Blackwall, but I gave the speech because I had that lore/history perk (Hawke saved). On my second playthrough, it was Blackwall, Varric, and Dorian, but I let Blackwall give the speech this time (Hawke saved again).

 

I recall customizing Hawke both times - but really, I just kind of changed the hair and added that blood mark because she pretty much looked like my other Hawke (I didn't exactly go overboard with the customization I suppose, heh).

[Bugsie]

I had the Hawke bug.  Made me kinda sad and it's pretty much the reason she got left behind in the fade (I had to go with the default) that and Alistair was a warden in that import.

 

I brought something nice to share.  From Baewall (on tumblr, huh this time it worked... :/) Her Inquistor Oda Cadash and her and Blackwalls daughter Cara.

[veeia]

I didn't customize Hawke my first few games because of the voice glitch and my Quizzies all being special snowflakes, lmao.

Wow I've hit another glitch while trying to figure this out...must be a controller on PC glitch, because I have never seen it before and I just got my controller, but half the UI keeps disappearing which is REALLY annoying because I can't see my health or the quest markers or navigate the quest map without just moving around and mashing...the health is the worst part though, esp on NM. If I restart or reset the controller settings, it seems to go away, but it keeps coming back, ugh!! Love this game but it's so glitchy. I've never played a game at launch before, so this is my first experience...it's sure been an experience, hehe. Don't regret it but dang.