14909 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

I endorse the idea of Blackwall making sandwiches for everyone. I'll have a roast beef one, thanks! *hands Blackwall an apron and a chef's hat*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Because his story is a morally complex and challenging one - I think it's aimed at people who understand that the world isn't black and white and who are also capable of actually seeing the good in a person like Blackwall, a man who underwent a real transformation into being a decent man. Since you obviously don't believe in redemption/second chances, then all you'll be able to do is to leave him in prison to await execution.

 

If you feel a real need for a murder-knife fix, then maybe you should load up DA2 and take it out on Anders.

One can believe in redemption/second chances while also believing in punishment of actions. They aren't mutually exclusive. Otherwise we wouldn't have a justice system as heavily influenced by religion as we do. 

 

 

Well said, and I agree.  If someone wishes Blackwall to pay the ultimate price for his crimes, then leave him in the cell to give justice to those he actually caused harm to.   I don't understand the point in going through the trouble of releasing him to execute him yourself.  What he did to the Inquisitor personally (lie to him/her) isn't cause for execution, at least in my opinion.

I agree with this. If people think he should die for his crimes, then let him be punished by those he has wronged in the way that warrants that punishment. 

[KealaFerret]

THE RAINWALL ROAST BEEF SPECIAL PLZ.

 

Damnit I almost dropped my tamale I was giggling so hard. :: shakes fist :: 

 

Sera approves of anything that results in sandwiches I bet. 

 

Also: in my digging through the game files, it appears that Halamshiral is often referred to as just "ham". Which really means nothing but sandwich, ham, hahahah ham. Despair. 

[Catwall]

If the Blackwall kitchen is still open, I'd like to order a grilled cheese, pls.

[Scuttlebutt101]

 

 

One can believe in redemption/second chances while also believing in punishment of actions. They aren't mutually exclusive. Otherwise we wouldn't have a justice system as heavily influenced by religion as we do. 

 

 

I agree. I think giving him to the Wardens is a reasonable choice - he gets to atone through actions, but it's hard to call it mercy, considering the kind of life Wardens live. However, there's also the fact that the Joining has something of a 1/3 survival rate and if it kills him, then it's hardly any different than leaving him in the dungeon - wasted potential. That's the main thing keeping me from giving him to the Wardens. Well, aside from the fact that my Inquisitor just wanted him back, lol. She's not awfully principled, as it turns out - anything to have her love by her side. Really though, having him remain with the Inquisition really isn't a bad option - Blackwall can atone through his work for the Inquisition, the Inquisition doesn't lose a skilled soldier. Life as a member of the Inq-n isn't a walk in the park either.

[mordy_was_here]

Alright, I posted this on tumblr but I'm going to post it here too since I know a few of you guys don't use it.

 

 

A lot of you guys on my dash have romanced Blackwall (good taste, ya'll), and I'm currently in the process of running through his romance again, and this time I'd like to write some fics. Problem is, I can't pinpoint exactly when or my aloof, pragmatic character would fall for him. 

 

Hearing about other people's OCs always helps get my brain-juices flowing, so I'd like to hear from you guys. When was it that your character fell for him? During In Hushed Whispers? When he saved you from becoming a bandit's target dummy? First flirts in Haven? Hit me.

[AtreiyaN7]

@hanako: Redemption and punishment aren't necessarily mutually exclusive in a justice system - but frankly, sometimes punishment just makes a bad situation worse and doesn't help a criminal to reform or to repent or to redeem themselves. I watched a Frontline documentary about the effects of solitary confinement on fairly hardcore convicts (the kind that end up in supermax facilities), and let's just say that it was very, very clear that all the punishment did was to make all of these people even worse than they already were (suicide attempts, increasingly violent behavior, descent into insanity in at least one case, etc.).

 

Now as for Blackwall, I think the only choice that might qualify as punishment that allows for redemption is to send him to the Wardens. And no, I don't believe that enslaving him qualifies as punishment and a path to redemption - it's just slavery.

 

As for religion influencing the justice system, that is completely irrelevant to judging Blackwall or anyone else in the game as far as I'm concerned. I hardly find the influence of religion to be a good thing when it comes to writing fair laws that protect everyone's rights or when it comes to judging someone. Everything that I ever learned in my history classes left me with a decidedly dim view of what happens when you allow religion to dominate over reason (hello, Spanish Inquisition, anyone?) or involve religion to any great extent when writing laws to govern a society.

 

As far as religion in Thedas goes, the Chantry hasn't exactly been doing a bang-up job of ruling wisely or compassionately, or displaying any kind of sense of real justice lately. Justinia was a good person, and maybe she could have enacted real changes that could have overhauled the Chantry and Thedan society. Alas, that just was not meant to be.

[CredulousAlloy]

Alright, I posted this on tumblr but I'm going to post it here too since I know a few of you guys don't use it.

 

Hmm, with Carys, there was an instant physical attraction, but it was through getting to know him during various conversations in Haven that she started to realize she had actual feelings for him (I greedily sped right through all his dialogue options the first chance I got, but my headcanon is that all that talking actually took place over several occasions, plus the many days they would have spent travelling throughout the Hinterlands and elsewhere). She was super idealistic and threw herself into the idea of becoming Andraste's herald--even if she didn't truly believe she'd been chosen--if it meant being able to help others and change the world in a positive way, so she started to fall pretty hard when she came to understand that Blackwall embodied everything she stood for. And though it sounds strange to say she "officially" fell in love with him during a future that never happened, seeing him willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good in Hushed Whispers really affirmed her feelings towards him. The conversation afterwards, when he openly supported her for allying with the mages and giving them a second chance, sealed the deal--she was a passionate believer in redemption and in giving people a chance to atone for mistakes made in their past (which stood her in pretty good stead considering, lmfao)

[Joe25]

I endorse the idea of Blackwall making sandwiches for everyone. I'll have a roast beef one, thanks! *hands Blackwall an apron and a chef's hat*

But Blackwall is already a roast beef sandwich.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I agree. I think giving him to the Wardens is a reasonable choice - he gets to atone through actions, but it's hard to call it mercy, considering the kind of life Wardens live. However, there's also the fact that the Calling has something of a 1/3 survival rate and if it kills him, then it's hardly any different than leaving him in the dungeon - wasted potential. That's the main thing keeping me from giving him to the Wardens. Well, aside from the fact that my Inquisitor just wanted him back, lol. She's not awfully principled, as it turns out - anything to have her love by her side. Really though, having him remain with the Inquisition really isn't a bad option - Blackwall can atone through his work for the Inquisition, the Inquisition doesn't lose a skilled soldier. Life as a member of the Inq-n isn't a walk in the park either.

 

That's why I personally put him under the Inquisition's custody during the judgement scenes. Just like for example Sten, they are still being punished by still being a prisoner and yet rather than sitting in a jail cell they are serving for the welfare of others and atone until their term is up. 

 

@hanako: Redemption and punishment aren't necessarily mutually exclusive in a justice system - but frankly, sometimes punishment just makes a bad situation worse and doesn't help a criminal to reform or to repent or to redeem themselves. I watched a Frontline documentary about the effects of solitary confinement on fairly hardcore convicts (the kind that end up in supermax facilities), and let's just say that it was very, very clear that all the punishment did was to make all of these people even worse than they already were (suicide attempts, increasingly violent behavior, descent into insanity in at least one case, etc.).

I was only commenting on your statement that said that since the person wanted him punished for his acts means that they don't believe in redemption/second chances when that isn't necessarily true. Even in this post you agreed with my statement. I never denied that the systems have failings, but the failings rest in the institution and not the mindset, just like many things. For example you brought up solitary confinement. The mindset of keeping prisoners separate from other prisoners is a good one, because the mindset sees those prisoners as a risk to other prisoners thus must be kept away from them for their protection. However the institution of how we do solitary confinement is where the problems occur, like the ones from that documentary you mentioned. 

 

Now as for Blackwall, I think the only choice that might qualify as punishment that allows for redemption is to send him to the Wardens. And no, I don't believe that enslaving him qualifies as punishment and a path to redemption - it's just slavery.

It's not enslavement. If that is considered enslavement, then the Wardens conscripting him is also enslavement since he would never be allowed to leave the Wardens. At least the Inquisitor can agree to or at least think about releasing Rainier when the sentence is served. 

 

As for religion influencing the justice system, that is completely irrelevant to judging Blackwall or anyone else in the game as far as I'm concerned. I hardly find the influence of religion to be a good thing when it comes to writing fair laws that protect everyone's rights or when it comes to judging someone. Everything that I ever learned in my history classes left me with a decidedly dim view of what happens when you allow religion to dominate over reason (hello, Spanish Inquisition, anyone?) or involve religion to any great extent when writing laws to govern a society.

I just brought that up to show how the two things weren't mutually exclusive. I do not want to start a full discussion about real world things since we are not supposed to so it will only end on a negative note. 

 

As far as religion in Thedas goes, the Chantry hasn't exactly been doing a bang-up job of ruling wisely or compassionately, or displaying any kind of sense of real justice lately. Justinia was a good person, and maybe she could have enacted real changes that could have overhauled the Chantry and Thedan society. Alas, that just was not meant to be.

Won't hear any denying about that from me. The Chantry is a great example of what I talked about earlier: the institution not matching the mindset. At least with Cassandra or Leliana as Divine Victoria those changes Justinia wanted could still happen or other positive changes. 

[AtreiyaN7]

But Blackwall is already a roast beef sandwich.

 

Hmm, that's totally true. *starts eyeing  Blackwall contemplatively*

But no - tonight is pizza night, and I shall partake of delicious cheese and pepperoni and pineapple! I'll still ogle Blackwall if I get a chance to play later, though (my mage-quisitor is o ff to the Forbidden Oasis, but honestly, I'm mostly focused on finding all the shards there instead of ogling him).

[Scuttlebutt101]

@Gorgo, I'm following you on Tumblr, but I'll answer here, to spare my non-wallclimbing followers the fluff-induced nausea.

 

My elf Sansa is aloof and pragmatic too! She was pretty much in love by the time they reached Skyhold. She was kind of indifferent to him at first, but they gradually became friendly and flirty and he was so honorable and charming that she started to really like him. Their relationship was up in the air during their time in Haven (which was a couple of months by my hc, a month at the very least) - they knew they had feelings for each other, but neither was acting of them. Sansa thought that no matter how she felt, she could never get involved with a human, so it was best to just wait until this infatuation sort of... dies. The breaking point was the destruction of Haven. After being so close to death, she thought that since she only had one life anyway and since her life will never be the same, maybe she should just follow her heart (I can't believe I just said ~follow her heart~, smh), Then after she was made Inquisitor pretty much against her will she just thought "f*ck it, I need at least one good thing in my life" and decided to finally make a move. By then it was more of an infatuation for her, though, and it really grew into love some time before Revelations. And then sh*t hit the fan.

[AtreiyaN7]

It's not enslavement. If that is considered enslavement, then the Wardens conscripting him is also enslavement since he would never be allowed to leave the Wardens. At least the Inquisitor can agree to or at least think about releasing Rainier when the sentence is served. 

 

When I said "enslavement," I specifically meant the option where you force him to keep living the lie and basically keep him in servitude. As far as I'm concerned, that is not even remotely the same as sending him to the Wardens and giving him a chance to redeem himself in that manner.

 

I will reiterate that you are forcing him to live the lie, and really, the only reason I see in doing that is if you're trying to punish him - that's just not a road that I see leading to redemption. I just foresee a lot of potential bitterness and resentment and negativity if you take that path as the net result.

 

EDIT: Even if you free him later (assuming your Inquisitor has some kind of change of heart), I don't think he's going to be all that grateful for what you did and how you did it.

[Joe25]

Hmm, that's totally true. *starts eyeing  Blackwall contemplatively*

But no - tonight is pizza night, and I shall partake of delicious cheese and pepperoni and pineapple! I'll still ogle Blackwall if I get a chance to play later, though (my mage-quisitor is o ff to the Forbidden Oasis, but honestly, I'm mostly focused on finding all the shards there instead of ogling him).

Sera is totally pineapple pizza. I really shouldn't play video games when I am hungry.

[Eyes_Only]

Well my current inquisitor has locked in a romance with him. She hangs out now by the stables and watches him carve wooden griffin stuff. She fully trusts him which is why I avoid any dialog options with her that question his actions or grey warden comments. Should be interesting when she learns the truth. Will she love him or hate him.

 

Either way I personally like the guy. Sure he isn't who he said he was but not everything about him is a lie.

[Catwall]

Portrait of Blackwall by Isolenta

 

Spoiler

[Bugsie]

Gosh that's lovely.

[Sabreenei]

@gorgo: I ended up writing a little more than I thought I would, so I put it behind spoiler tags.

 

The short answer: At first my quizzie thought she was done with love. Then she met Blackwall, and thought, oh, just a fun flirtation. But he was so much more than she'd expected. After finding the badge, and the kiss (and the sex, because, no way that kiss ended at just a kiss that night), she thought, maybe she'd been done with love, but love wasn't done with her. She wasn't ready to admit anything yet, though. I think she realized it randomly. Some time after they'd been sleeping together, it just struck her. She loved this man.

 

Spoiler

 

Kiara may be a noble, but she has lived a good part of her life outside her family's influence, living under her own assumed name as a rogue and thief. (This was before I even knew there was a Blackwall, so, these two were totally meant to be!). As a child her best friend and first love became a mage. They'd tried to keep it hidden, but it wasn't something that could be hidden for long. He was taken away to a circle, at the height of their crazy mad us-against-the-world love that only those just out of childhood can sustain. It turned her against the family and the chantry as a whole, since she blamed them for it. After this she made disastrous choices, first to get back at the family and then later because that was the lifestyle she'd gotten herself into. When the last affair had taken a heartbreaking turn both personally and professionally, she decided to stop straddling two worlds and return home for good. It was time to make amends with her family, give up on the idea of love, and use everything she'd learned for the betterment of her family. She volunteered to go the the conclave, and her family decided to give her that chance, as she would be the one most likely to learn any secrets they could use to further their line. Instead, all hell broke loose.

 

When she met Blackwall, she was still determined to believe there was no such thing as love. She felt an immediate attraction to him, and when he not only saved her from the arrow, but was so sure of himself and commanding and wonderful in the fight, it may have made her knees go a little weak. But she thought she could both like him as a person and lust after him as a man, without falling in love with him. Maybe she would sleep with him, and maybe she wouldn't. She may have given up on love, but that didn't mean she couldn't flirt and have a good time.

 

When she saw him in the future Alexis sent her into, how he looked at her through the gates of those bars when seeing her alive and how he sacrificed himself to give her the chance to get back through the portal -- she started to suspect it was more than infatuation. Still, she wasn't ready to call it love. Then the attack on Haven happened, fighting a dragon and a darkspawn claiming to have seen the seat of the Maker. Fighting, and surviving. Again. The trek through the snow, the complete faith of the people ringing all around her, skyhold rising out of the mountains... all her beliefs were shaken. Maybe she'd been wrong about Andraste, about the Maker. If she was wrong about something as big as that, maybe she was wrong about love too?

 

Everything felt as if it were rushing out of control. The people's belief, being made inquisitor, everyone looking to her for answers. This is when Blackwall took her up to the battlements, and tried to get her to step back from their relationship. The relationship she'd been telling herself didn't exist, it was only flirtation. And this, this made her laugh. Because she suddenly realized he was as afraid of love as she was, and she knew with utter clarity that he had something in his past he felt made him unworthy, just as she did. With his fear, she felt less afraid. As if by him trying to run away from the problem, it made her want to step up and face it. She wasn't ready to admit to being in love at that point, but she was open to the idea. Every day he proved himself to her, proved how unlike he was from any man she'd been with before. Every time he said, "my lady" and meant it, her mind opened a little more to the idea of love.

 

Later, after they retrieved the badge and he'd come to her room, he kissed her. And then he'd more than kissed her. In the dark, in the night, while he snored like a bear, she'd thought, maybe I love this man. Later still, somewhere on the Storm Coast, after an exhilarating fight against a small horde of darkspawn, still breathless from the attack, not from exertion so much as from the high she got whenever they fought in tandem, Blackwall had reached for her. Wiping the blood from her arm with such concern, he'd asked if she were all right. There was both fear and love in his voice. She came to two realizations at that point. He was no grey warden, and, yes, she loved him.

 

 

[AtreiyaN7]

If the Blackwall kitchen is still open, I'd like to order a grilled cheese, pls.

 

Although I just got done nomming on pizza, I think that if Blackwall is making grilled cheese sandwiches, he should really make some tomato soup as well to go with the sammies there.

[Xetykins]

He can make whatever he wants as long as he makes it wearing nothing else but apron . I'm still bitter you can see Dorian's cute bum with its full gloriousness but not Blackwall

[Joe25]

He can make whatever he wants as long as he makes it wearing nothing else but apron . I'm still bitter you can see Dorian's cute bum with its full gloriousness but not Blackwall

They had trouble animating the fuzzieness of his backside.

[DuVessa]

I really hope that Blackwall returns in the next game. His story and possibilities are far from over! 

[AtreiyaN7]

@xety: lol!

[Xetykins]

They had trouble animating the fuzzieness of his backside.

I hope you dont mean his bum is so hairy there's not enough pixel to go into it :'(

They can make it hairless so i ask if food is ready, he can flex the right bum cheek for yes and left for no. Is it too much to asssk?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The negative reaction that we mostly see towards Blackwall and his romance arc is the fact that people gobbled up the marketing and advertising hype. 

 

These people took the Bioware hype bait that Blackwall is a Grey Warden hook, line and sinker. After all that has happened with Bioware games, I would have thought that gamers would have the sense not expect a lot and get too hyped up, because they might get burned.

 

As such, they had this ideal in their head of what Blackwall was supposed to be and what his romance arc was supposed to be about. I mean, I saw many posts back in the day talking about how the Taint and the Calling would be the centerpoint issues with his romance arc and what have you as opposed to identity fakery. 

 

I actually find this negative reaction funny because this reaction is very similar to Thom Rainier's attitude on the Blackwall persona. Some were too fixed on the persona and the ideal of Blackwall the Lone Warden that they expected it to define the character, just like how Thom Rainier himself idolized Blackwall the Warden and adopted his identity. As such, when the persona of Blackwall was nuked by the story, they react negatively. 

 

By contrast, characters like Solas were hyped as this knowledgeable introvert and Solas delivered that and so much more with his character arc and romance arc, hence the good character reception. With Iron Bull, the hype train was about a James Bond-esque Qunari suffering from PTSD and the train arrived at its destination correctly, hence the good character reception. With Cullen, well, I don't think I need to explain how many were wet and hard for him. 

 

Blackwall's hype train on his character and romance got derailed, fell into the ravine, its survivors had to continue their journey using other methods of transportation. They arrived at their eventual destination, just not in a manner they expected & to quote Tali :- "Still totally worth it."