14909 réponses à ce sujet

[medusa_hair]

ok. I would like to know this: I have romanced solas (don't get me started about this), blackwall (second time on now),cullen x2, cassandra and dorian. WHY is it that no Blackwall shirtless!! after all, as dorian pointed out to me, there is "quite a lot of him - he is burly" Let's see it! :-)

Also, is this new? I noticed today after a couple of fights he would say "you all right, love?" I swear I didnt notice that before.

[Gilsa]

If Blackwall was shirtless, he'd be smooth like Cullen. Even Varric's default model doesn't have chest hair, it's an overlay with his clothing. I've seen some people figure out how to get their Inquisitor to be naked with Cullen (as opposed to fully dressed) in the morning-after scene so theoretically it's probably possible to have both Blackwall and the Inquisitor naked while they shuffle backwards onto the bed-of-hay. (If anyone knows, totally feel free to share the know-how. =p)

 

And the "you all right, love?" shows up in Storm Coast, right? I do remember discussion a while back about how hard it was to get that to trigger. There was a trick to it, but I don't remember what it was. (Head north to the astrarium, maybe?)

[AtreiyaN7]

@gilsa: Yeah, walking northish to the ocularum at the first camp - not sure if it's still working post-patch. I don't think it did it the last time I was there. On the other hand, he asked the question twice while we were running around the map while I was on the darkspawn quest.

[Phoe77]

As much as I want to see Blackwall starko, I think I'd have to pass unless he had proper body hair.  

[medusa_hair]

I was doing the darkspawn quest, lots of spiders and such. I don't remember him saying it before.

He is one who would need some body hair, you are right! I didn't think about that..I was thinking more about mass... :-)

[Bugsie]

As much as I want to see Blackwall starko, I think I'd have to pass unless he had proper body hair.  

I fully support hairy Blackwall.

 

[coldwetn0se]

I have a strange little glitch that has occurred on my latest play through. Once I got Blackwall, and those first initial cutscenes in the Hinterlands, his helmet has gone missing. Like, completely. Not on him, not in my inventory, nowhere. Have any of you ever had this before? I know it wasn't a case of me "selling it by accident", since I was all ready and set to put him in new armor, right after I recruited him. I reloaded, and restarted the game, but no helmet. *shrug!*

I have since kept playing, and am nearly done with Haven (will be at Skyhold shortly). Definitely looking forward to getting to Frostback Basin in JoH, so I can buy his helm schematic.

[Qun00]

Just a little help here. I've already done Here Lies The Abyss and WH/WE, and yet Blackwall's quest won't trigger.

[Joe25]

I love it when Blackwall and the Inquisitor flirt.

Spoiler

[AtreiyaN7]

@qun: Is it romanced Blackwall or non-romanced Blackwall?

[Qun00]

Non-romanced Blackwall.

I hear it's supposed to come after the cutscene where you talk to him about a dog, but that hasn't happened either.

[AtreiyaN7]

@qun: Hmm, what about approval? Are you on (reasonably) good terms with him? I've read that low approval can be an issue.

[Qun00]

So the Inquisitor never discovers his secret unless they're friends?

[CathyMe]

So if the Inquisitor never discovers his secret unless they're friends?

From my experience, yes. In my first PT I didn't pay much attention to approval and I was somewhere neutral with BW, he didn't leave but didn't reveal his secret either.

[Priisus]

@ Qun, Yeap... He will reveal himself if the Inquisitor "inspired" him, so no quest unless you have high disposition with him. Found out through a run of trial and error from my friend's playthrough, where barely took Blackwall in the party and banished the Wardens... He finally triggered Revelations after exhausting all Warden artifacts right before the final battle
 
(I created a thread regarding companions' quests triggers a few months back, think I kinda figured out the pre-req more or less by now).
 
As for the rest of the wall-climbing ladies (and gent? Or maybe no gent after all?), I said I will come back to the thread to discuss the character and hear what others have to say about him after I finished my first playthrough. I kinda went back on that and instead finished 2 playthroughs... Just because sometimes a character is so much harder to judge because their plot/characteristics etc got "muddled" due to the romance subplot. Before the release, I wanted to romance Solas because I was like "probably, not a Warden hat-trick", and then finding out that D.W doesn't like non-pointy creatures after all (always play as female human warrior in the first playthrough, not about to break tradition for DAI). And boy, dare I say that Mr beardy is now my 2nd most favorite DA companion, right after Mr swooping-is-bad (because I have to credit Alistair for being a big part on making me fall in love with the DA world :3)
 
And for Mr Beardy himself, I would love to hear what others would say about the points I think of him. Spoilers tag for obvious reasons.
 

Spoiler

I realized that Rainwall (that epilogue dialogue is hilarious, and I have since taken to call this Blackwall by that jibe >.>) is a controversial character and I did peek in this forum every now and then after my first playthrough, and saw that some discussions got real blown up... and got ugly, real ugly... Some of those points I feel were unfair, but I like the fact that Rainwall is a character that shows us how low (or terrible) a human being can be, and that the road of self-redemption is not a straight road and is a constant struggle. I have always dig controversial characters because they make for interesting discussions, rather than the "yes-men, I'm your "buddy-buddy" kind of characters. Loghain and the Arishok are examples of these characters that I really dig. Others argued that these two had reasons for their "terrible" behaviors, and that there were absolutely no reasons for Rainier to commit *that* murder, especially since his main motivation is gold.

 

And then here I thought - why should only "gray" characters get off the hook easier when it comes to discussing their "crimes" and situations? Isn't greed the very fundamental fiber of the human race? Eliminating political opponents was a very wide practice (especially those damn Orlesians), and I believe that Rainier is honest about not knowing that the children will be travelling, BUT I believe he could have stopped the attack in time. And then what will become of it had he really called off the attack? His company might have been caught by Callier immediately, and his armed guards may have eliminated Rainier's company in return, because he showed conscience? Also, in my opinion... if you are in Rainier's shoes - when you only had a few minutes, seconds... to call off the attack, would probably not think that far ahead about the consequences... hence, the murder happened (and tbh, Rainier is not exactly the brightest companion ). And the most chilling thing was what he mentioned when you visited him in prison - "At another time, this exact crime would have earned me a medal"... and I actually agree with him on that... History is always written by the victors no? What if Gaspard won the throne earlier, and the Callier's children weren't involved? Rainier's company may have in fact gotten away with being credited for removing a strong political opponent of the Emperor. Kind of Game-of-Thrones-ish... Which again I kind of unconsciously drew comparison between Gaspard and Stannis... And umm Stannis is all about "the law is stone" judging by the way he handled Ser Davos' case but guess what? He isn't exactly shy about sacrificing children of noble blood. It might be a little far fetch to have a direct comparison between Stannis and Gaspard, but I am of the strong belief that Gaspard would have been delighted with Callier out of the picture, had the children and wife not been involved in the deal.

 

And the whole thing about some people hating Rainwall for the basis of "he was that kind of person, yet he went all self-righteous ****** on me". Umm, I don't see any instance where he reprimanded you for doing "good deeds"... Yeah, it might have been a little better had he shut up about it, especially considering who he was... but hey, where's the fun in being a "yes men"... *yawn*

 

Also, those people that really wanted to change, it was never easy... and I would not even raise an eyebrow because some believe that shades of his old self appear every now and then, and that had absolutely no right to judge the Quizzy... Oh yes... "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME, THE ALMIGHTY PC?".

 

And to me, Rainier is the other companion (besides Cassandra) who was actually joined the Inquisition without a personal ulterior motive/hidden agenda, and that he truly wants to save the f***ing world. (Some could argue that he joined the Inquisition to hide from the Orlesian authority - umm he was doing just fine on that matter travelling as a Lone Warden... Or that he was trying to believe that he could redeem himself by joining - which umm... don't see what's wrong in trying to feel better about yourself in being part of something... greater?). My brother actually said that Rainwall is a very loyal companion - and last I checked, he is no fangirl (or boy) of Rainwall

 

That being said, in a sense to me, Rainier has shown quite an extreme of the black and white spectrum of human being characteristics. And to me, this feels "real" - a very "human" characteristic. Rainwall feels real, and this is why I really like him. 

 

Had more thoughts on the topic, especially the way his judgment scene was handled... but about to scram off from the office

 

I do agree that he should not have gotten off completely scot-free because of his crimes, which is why I send him to the Wardens on my Lavellan playthrough.

 

K, that was a long post o.O, but umm would love to hear others' comments on this

 

[CathyMe]

*snipped*
 
As for the rest of the wall-climbing ladies (and gent? Or maybe no gent after all?), I said I will come back to the thread to discuss the character and hear what others have to say about him after I finished my first playthrough. I kinda went back on that and instead finished 2 playthroughs... Just because sometimes a character is so much harder to judge because their plot/characteristics etc got "muddled" due to the romance subplot. Before the release, I wanted to romance Solas because I was like "probably, not a Warden hat-trick", and then finding out that D.W doesn't like non-pointy creatures after all (always play as female human warrior in the first playthrough, not about to break tradition for DAI). And boy, dare I say that Mr beardy is now my 2nd most favorite DA companion, right after Mr swooping-is-bad (because I have to credit Alistair for being a big part on making me fall in love with the DA world :3)

I personally prefer to play as female elf mage (DA2 kinda broke my "elven streak" ), and I also had my eyes set on Solas before the game came out

And for Mr Beardy himself, I would love to hear what others would say about the points I think of him.

Well, since you asked nicely, I will go ahead and inflict my opinion of him upon the rest of you

At first I found his idealism a tad boring, and the GW fanboy-ism was slowly grating me. But after the revelations all of it started to made sense for reasons which have been stated by other countless times and I am to lazy to type. As for the crime itslef, I wanted my quizzie to tap him on the back and go "attaboy ", moslty because, as far as I'm concerned, the only good orlesian noble is dead orlesian noble, and I also have a RL burning hatred for kids, so no sympathy for them either (i know, I'm a very hateful person all around ), and like you said, if he had stopped the attack the noble could have easily killed them on the spot, and it's nearly impossible to think clearly and long-term during an adrenaline rush. Not to mention that there are characters who got away with far worse in-game.

As for the romance: I really liked the flirts at Heaven, and when his old self surfaced a bit,(and that voice    and manliness) but in my first/"blind" PT I stopped the romance at the talk on the battlements, when he started spouting that "he's not good enough". I always found that kind of talk a bit presumptuous, I'm a big girl I can decide for myself 

[Gilsa]

I have a strange little glitch that has occurred on my latest play through. Once I got Blackwall, and those first initial cutscenes in the Hinterlands, his helmet has gone missing. Like, completely. Not on him, not in my inventory, nowhere. Have any of you ever had this before? I know it wasn't a case of me "selling it by accident", since I was all ready and set to put him in new armor, right after I recruited him. I reloaded, and restarted the game, but no helmet. *shrug!*

I have since kept playing, and am nearly done with Haven (will be at Skyhold shortly). Definitely looking forward to getting to Frostback Basin in JoH, so I can buy his helm schematic.

 

I read about this bug a while back in this thread. Apparently if you don't put him in your group immediately upon recruiting him, you don't get his starting gear. If this still happened despite putting him in your group, then I'm stumped. At least the schematic at JoH comes in handy, right? =p I don't have JoH myself, but I'm curious how soon you can go there specifically for that schematic or if you have to wait until late 18ish or something.

[coldwetn0se]

I read about this bug a while back in this thread. Apparently if you don't put him in your group immediately upon recruiting him, you don't get his starting gear. If this still happened despite putting him in your group, then I'm stumped. At least the schematic at JoH comes in handy, right? =p I don't have JoH myself, but I'm curious how soon you can go there specifically for that schematic or if you have to wait until late 18ish or something.

......



Oh well. Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I am sort of getting used to some really weird shyte going on, with my new dwarven play through. lol! I am loving this new PC, but dayum! Some of the strangest glitches (and a lot more freezing, though I doubt it has anything to do specifically with this play through...I think. *shrug* ).

But yes! I will just purchase it once I open the Frostback Basin. S'all good. Funny enough, about half of my play throughs didn't include me adding him to the party, immediately after recruitment, and I still always had his starting get up. This time, I was all prepared with a new set of armor for him and *poof* - no Griffon Helm. Heh!

[coldwetn0se]

Whoops! Sorry for double post.

@Gilsa - Forgot, I have an answer (sort of) relating to your question on how quickly you can start up JoH, to grab those schematics. It is available to access (if you have the power points), once you reach Skyhold (just saw it on my map this weekend with my new dwarven PC). Also, one of my first play throughs of said DLC, was with my level 16 Mage!Lavellan.

Spoiler

Was lvl.17 by the time I opened up the Avaar camp, and bought the schematics there.

I had to take a break from the DLC though, since I was barely surviving (of course...LOL!). Went and played through some other story parts, then came back and finished up the JoH storylines. Hope this answers your query.

[AtreiyaN7]

@Priisus: I've largely agreed agreed with the points you brought up. I found Blackwall interesting because of the issue of redemption in the face of a fairly terrible crime, along with question of whether or no someone can actually legitimately change and become a better person over time. Needless to say, I thought there were sufficient extenuating circumstances (things like the nature of Orlesian politics and the fact that he did seem to be completely unaware of the children, etc.) that led me to forgive him, especially since he genuinely seemed to want to atone.

 

There were also things like talking to Giles the farmer (has to happen before you find Blackwall on the recruitment quest) that made it pretty clear that he can be selfless/heroic. The short version of the story is that Blackwall basically jumped in after demons started popping out of a rift and saved a bunch of villagers. Things like that are balanced against what he did back when he was Rainier. He was certainly a complete bastard back then, but it's obvious that he underwent a major change since that time. He's certainly not perfect and has a ways to go to make up for what he did, but I think he earned his chance at redemption in the end.

[Joe25]

I just found an outfit that screams modern Blackwall.

Spoiler

Also since it is Summer I fund him a swimsuit.

Spoiler

[Bugsie]

So some World of Thedas spoilers about the real Blackwall

Spoiler

No particular details on how/why he was recruited, but his full name is Gordon Blackwall.  Which convention would argue that he should techically be using his first name (think Warden Commander Clarel, or Warden Alistair or Loghain) but just think about it for a moment...

 

Warden Gordon

 

No wonder he chose Blackwall! 

 

[WobbleLikeAJelly]

I very much agree with you, Priisus. Especially on calling him "Rainwall". Love it.

I haven't played any other DA games yet, but with this being my first, Blackrain has become my favorite character. They're all really great. It was hard to pick a favorite. But I did, and it's him!

And the whole "self-righteous" thing... I don't see it that way at all. He's seen what going down the wrong path can do. He harbors so much regret for what resulted from his own poor decision making and selfishness. When he sees wrong being done, he resents it because he's reminded of how he made the world a worse place in his own way. So he speaks out against what he perceives to be a mistake in the making. That all convinces me even more that he's a changed man.

***And earlier today I was listening to "Behind Blue Eyes" and was smacked in the face with lyrics relevant to Blackwall!***

[Bugsie]

@Priisus, thanks for sharing your thoughts - here's some of mine - in a nutshell, spoilered for length.

 

Spoiler

Their (Loghain/Arishok) reasons were no more or less ‘reasonable’ than Rainiers.  The supposed ‘noble mistake’ or ‘greater good’ is as a BS excuse for bad behaviour as is selfishness for gold.  All of it part of irrational thinking.  Loghains because of his hatred of Orlais and Orlesians (and really who doesn’t hate those bastards) although his hate was rational, his behaviour to deal with it was not.   Arishok is the same, the fact that it’s tied up with issues surrounding the general behaviour of the Qun is not an excuse.

(By the way even though I love Loghain I don’t excuse his behaviour and how he threw the wardens to the wolves)

 

 My prime thinking – the fandom wouldn’t give a **** about the crime if children had not been involved and I'm pretty damned sure Gaspard fans would be calling him a hero.  It does make you do a double take on him (I certainly did) then I thought – how is this different ifit were just Callier and his men rather than Callier, his men AND his family?  It made me rethink things considerably.  Throwing children into the mix just makes it hard.  But the reality is, we might not have got the same sort of redemption story if children hadn’t been involved.   Honestly F*** Orlais and its politics and ‘the game’.  The more I read the more I think how they deserve to eat themselves.

 

In regard to 'how dare he be self righteous!!!' They don’t understand.  He was always self-righteous.  Just because he committed a crime doesn’t mean he didn’t have some standards or some remnants of youthful arrogance.  The reason he goes off at you is that he finally wanted to leave that bullshit behind and you wouldn’t let him.  He’s angry, wouldn’t you be if you finally had the guts to own up to something bad and were prepared to die – and someone said no, I need you and I’m going to use criminal means to do it.  Yeah I’d be hella mad and I’m sure if I had some self-righteousness left it would come out in full force at this point.  Again this is a ‘special snowflake’ PC moment, where they feel so aggrieved (They’re masking it as concern for the dead children more often than not) that it’s no longer about the crime he committed than about how the PC is personally affronted.

 

What pisses me off most, are those moralising (in a real world way) about those romancing Blackwall or sending him to the wardens are not serving ‘justice for the family killed’, yet are happy to ‘make him serve’  how the hell is that different?  How is that serving ‘justice for the family killed’? IMHO if we’re talking real world morals the only justice that can be served in this story is to leave him to his fate in Val Royueax – likely the hangman’s noose.

 

In regard to hate and moralising in general - People who can’t deal with him, leave him in Val Royeux if you hate his beard/voice/age (gah don’t let me get started on that last one) so morally concerned/outraged that someone would let him atone.  Seriously, the moralising towards players for making choices in a video game is the biggest bug bear for me.  GTFO of my game thanks and stick your moralising where the sun doesn’t shine kthnxbye

 

I hate special snowflake PC’s.  SOOOO MUCH.   

 

I like Thom for a number of reasons, and I like that his personal quest made me question my own double standards regarding how justice can be served.

 

In regard to his judgement, yeah it can be handled in two ways – I disliked it for my romanced character because it felt executed poorly given her personality, it might be more fitting for a different kind of character though.

 

‘Scot free’ is again irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and depends on the PC you’re roleplaying, I had him as  LI in one (atoner), to the wardens in another (justifiable) and in this playthrough (which I haven’t got far) I’m intending on pissing him off I never end up knowing his secret because he’ll leave (for SCIENCE!)  if he stays he’ll be left in Val Royeaux (weeps)

Apologies for coming off a bit ranty in places, it's not directed at you at all!

[Gilsa]

I meant to reply to Priisus' post, but didn't have the chunk of time I needed to sit there and just type with a toddler constantly pulling me away from the desk.

 

King Joffery was a thoroughly loathsome character, but he was wonderfully written and magnificently acted. He evoked strong emotions and is not a character that will be forgotten. People still talk about Loghain to this day and have softened their emotions with perspective over the years. Blackwall will have the same fate.

 

My first character was a dwarf noble. Bhelen outplayed me. I felt betrayed. I put Harrowmont on the throne out of revenge (among other reasons, too, but I'd be lying if I didn't say revenge was a driving force). In hindsight, Bhelen was the better choice for the dwarven people. Time has dulled my outrage and I can see Bhelen was just playing The Game, doing what he needed to get to where he was. It wasn't personal. He's still a dick, but with the better "for the greater good" outcome. Blackwall is to everyone else what Bhelen was for the dwarf noble. People are reeling from the sense of being fooled/outplayed and are reacting in the heat of the moment. Time will only tell if they eventually come to appreciate the writing or gain a different perspective.