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[Silent X]

@ Sable Rhapsody

 

Have you done the judgments that follow Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts and Here Lies the Abyss? Blackwall approves of sentencing Florianne to work on a farm ("Common work with the common") if she's still alive. He slightly approves of imprisoning Erimond. He slightly approves if you refuse to judge Ser Ruth because she's a Warden, and approves if you exile her like the rest of the Wardens (since you mentioned exiling them). Sorry if you've already done all these; your post mentioned him disliking some of your judgments, but I don't know if you meant these ones or earlier ones.

 

I don't know how much of the map you've already explored, but these sidequest judgments can also grant a little approval: If you haven't judged Servis yet (Western Approach), Blackwall slightly approves of recruiting him as an informant. He approves of sentencing Mistress Poulin (Emprise du Lion) to rebuild the town, and slightly approves of releasing her or putting her to work. (All info is from the wiki.)

 

Sorry I can't think of more. As far as I can recall, most opportunities to get approval from Blackwall outside of main plot quests are either in conversations with him or from doing his personal quests.

 

re: the approval system. I was in Vivienne's most hostile bracket for a large chunk of my first playthrough. Eventually I made it up to the bracket above that. When I first talked to her in Trespasser, I was surprised at how friendly she seemed. Then she asked my Inquisitor how her relationship with Blackwall was going, I said it was good, and she said, "It's such a comfort to hear that at least one facet of your life hasn't fallen apart due to incompetence." I was like, LOL, there's the Vivienne I'm used to.

[Sable Rhapsody]

@Gilsa and Silent X:
 
I checked in the DAI save game editor to see where I was approval-wise with Blackwall, expecting to be pretty low.  But I'm sitting at 71.  And I never got one of his conversations, though it's supposed to trigger at 35. I fussed with it, and Revelations seems to trigger at 80. So all I have to do is turn into a brain-case over the Well, and maybe add a few points. It seems like I somehow bugged out his conversation about the chevalier (and missed out on those approval points), but I can still get his quest to work.

Thanks anyway for the suggestions

[Gilsa]

Awesome. I had wondered what your number was at. Good to know. Hope it does trigger for ya!

[Bugsie]

Just speaking about judgements, but I have never had anyone in my jail, even after sentencing them there. Is this a known bug?

[Gvalchca]

but I have never had anyone in my jail

 

Me neither. I think it's a 'feature' though. By the way it's a bit sad that the last patch already came out and we all in all didn't get that fix for after Revelations dialogue.

[Silent X]

@ Bugsie

 

I only have Servis in the dungeon, and for whatever reason he's in one of the rearmost cells, past the main jail area. When I'd talk to the guard, she'd say there was no one to look after, but when I went further back into the run-down area, there Servis was. I think the wiki says that if you have multiple prisoners, you can even hear them talk to each other.

 

Did you go all the way back in the dungeon? And did you definitely sentence people to your prison and not another one? (I sent Mayor Deadrick to prison in Ferelden, so he's not in my dungeon.) Maybe there is a bug, I don't know.

 

@ Gvalcha

 

Wait, what fix for after-Revelations dialogue? Am I missing something I don't even know about?

[Bugsie]

Yeah I did, but now I remember I did have Gereon Alexius show up once, I even got pictures, but then he disappeared! You can sentence Ser Ruth to prison and when I tried she never did, also with Samson and he definitely never showed up.

[Gvalchca]

 

 

Wait, what fix for after-Revelations dialogue? Am I missing something I don't even know about?

 

I mean this one. It won't trigger if you exhaust every dialogue line from 'Tell me about yourself' branch before Revelations.

Spoiler

 

[Gilsa]

Me neither. I think it's a 'feature' though. By the way it's a bit sad that the last patch already came out and we all in all didn't get that fix for after Revelations dialogue.

 

Thanks for mentioning that. This was the one patch I didn't bother loading up to see if that ever got fixed. Had a feeling that ship sailed once they took down the patch testing forum.

 

@Bugsie -- I don't know, to be honest. I jailed one person at the most and I'd see that person and the guard would be like "nobody here, ma'am." I always meant to jail them all to hear their convos.

[Scuttlebutt101]

I once went down to the dungeon to check if the magister whathisface was actually in my prison after I imprisoned him for life. He wasn't there, but instead I found this dude. I think he's the only person who was ever actually in these cells.

 

 

It sucks that they still haven't fixed Blackwall's post-Revelations dialogue, though. 

[Silent X]

@ Bugsie

 

Okay, that's definitely a bug, then. I'm sorry.

 

@ Gvalcha

 

Thanks for posting that! I totally missed it. After messing up my romance with Leliana in Origins by NOT exhausting her dialogue options before I started the romance, I became paranoid and have subsequently made a point of always poking my companions until they run out of things to say. I just can't win. At least now I've heard that dialogue and can just assume that he would have told my Lavellan those things after his judgment. So thank you again!

 

@ Bugsie and Scuttlebutt101

 

You guys are more merciful than I am. I actually gave Alexius the chop. Ended up being the only person I executed. At the time, my Lavellan was utterly horrified by what he'd done (and tried to do) and just didn't believe he'd ever redeem himself. She also worried that he'd eventually escape if she imprisoned him, what with him being such a powerful mage. If he'd shown any remorse, it would have stayed her hand, but he didn't. Thank goodness Dorian found it in his heart to forgive her and be her bosom friend anyway. That decision did add a bit of interesting poignancy to her romance, though, when she found out about Blackwall's past. It dawned on her that if she'd met Blackwall right after the Callier Massacre, she probably wouldn't have believed there was any chance of him becoming the person she met in the Hinterlands. And she would have been wrong. So she started to wonder if Alexius might have actually turned himself around if she'd spared him, and then she felt guilty.

[Scuttlebutt101]

@Silent X, oh, that wasn't Alexius, I always do Champions of the Just  I don't think I would have forgiven him either, though, not after the whole Oculara thing. The one I imprisoned was either Erimond or Servis... I think. There are a lot of as*hole Tevinter guys causing trouble in this game!

[Gilsa]

@ Gvalcha

 

Thanks for posting that! I totally missed it. After messing up my romance with Leliana in Origins by NOT exhausting her dialogue options before I started the romance, I became paranoid and have subsequently made a point of always poking my companions until they run out of things to say. I just can't win. At least now I've heard that dialogue and can just assume that he would have told my Lavellan those things after his judgment. So thank you again!

 

 

Like 99% of us missed it. It was discovered because veeia (the person who posted the video) and the thread were talking in circles and confusing each other (because she thought everyone had access to that dialogue). When she posted the video, everyone was gobsmacked and tried to figure out what was causing the bug right down to filling out a survey to compare our games and decisions to see if there was a pattern. Sheryl Chee was contacted and she did her own investigating, which you can read here. It's such a simple fix, which is why it doesn't make sense why it's not been patched thus far.

[Bugsie]

@ Bugsie

Okay, that's definitely a bug, then. I'm sorry.

@ Gvalcha

Thanks for posting that! I totally missed it. After messing up my romance with Leliana in Origins by NOT exhausting her dialogue options before I started the romance, I became paranoid and have subsequently made a point of always poking my companions until they run out of things to say. I just can't win. At least now I've heard that dialogue and can just assume that he would have told my Lavellan those things after his judgment. So thank you again!

@ Bugsie and Scuttlebutt101

You guys are more merciful than I am. I actually gave Alexius the chop. Ended up being the only person I executed. At the time, my Lavellan was utterly horrified by what he'd done (and tried to do) and just didn't believe he'd ever redeem himself. She also worried that he'd eventually escape if she imprisoned him, what with him being such a powerful mage. If he'd shown any remorse, it would have stayed her hand, but he didn't. Thank goodness Dorian found it in his heart to forgive her and be her bosom friend anyway. That decision did add a bit of interesting poignancy to her romance, though, when she found out about Blackwall's past. It dawned on her that if she'd met Blackwall right after the Callier Massacre, she probably wouldn't have believed there was any chance of him becoming the person she met in the Hinterlands. And she would have been wrong. So she started to wonder if Alexius might have actually turned himself around if she'd spared him, and then she felt guilty.

all the villains are well layered in Inquisition. Alexius motive was personal (to save his son) and then when it doesn't work out the way he expects he closets himself away in Redcliffe castle I am a sucker for villainous f*ckups! Even Erimond the self righteous little creep, Florianne, Clarel and Ser Ruth (who were being manipulated) Samson, Calpernia. But I think if they all been moustache twirlers I'd have no issue chopping off their heads. I set most in service for the inquisition, but I also wanted to send them to prison to see if it gave me more dialogue. There is apparently some great banter between some of them and you get further insights into there character. Pity it's bugged.

The best villains always have some good in them and the best heroes some bad. Makes them feel real.

@gilsa, I think I got the dialogue unintentionally leaving a convo in that pre revelations dialogue.

@scuttlebutt that dude showed up for me in various places around Skyhokd (the first was the vault!)

[Silent X]

@ Scuttlebutt101

 

Sorry, my bad! I was already thinking of Alexius, so when you mentioned a magister, my mind leapt straight to him. Stupid of me, of course he isn't the only villainous magister we deal with. re: Champions of the Just, I recently did it for the first time, but my Cadash hasn't gotten to Skyhold yet, and I'm not sure what I'll do with Denam. I'm generally biased toward mages over Templars, but on a personal level, from what I've seen so far, I think I actually like Ser Barris more than Fiona.

 

@ Gilsa

 

Thanks for the explanation and the link! I notice that that post from Sheryl Chee is from January. They've known about the problem for this long and still haven't patched it? Is it that difficult? I don't know anything about programming, so while the problem sounds simple, I don't know how simple it is to fix it. Or maybe they just didn't feel that enough players knew or cared to make it worth their time to fix? I'm a sad nug now.

 

@ Bugsie

 

I know Alexius's actions were motivated by love for his son, but that just doesn't cut it for me. I don't believe that love is a catch-all excuse for anything. I think it almost makes it look worse to me, that someone who clearly knows what it is to care deeply for someone would destroy the lives of so many others with no compunction. If he loves Felix, he should be able to understand that his actions are imposing on many other people the same kind of devastating loss he's trying to avoid in his own life. What I'm basically saying is that a general sense of empathy is extremely important to me. Characters who show empathy earn my respect and those who show a distinct lack of it earn my disgust. I felt very much that Alexius knew better than to do what he did, and did it anyway. And given that he was basically trying to destroy the world as we know it, his actions don't even seem very smart. How did he think the world would end up? How could he know that Felix would still be able to live in the kind of world Corypheus sought to create? What made him sure such a world would be worth living in? I also wonder exactly what Corypheus told Alexius when he promised to save Felix. Did Alexius bother to ask any questions about how said preservation would work? In the alternate future Felix appeared to be something similar to a ghoul, and Alexius seemed to be in denial of that fact, probably because after all the horrors he'd committed, he couldn't face the fact that they had been for nothing. (I told Leliana to give Felix a clean death; it seemed the kindest option.) In the wake of all that, Alexius just looked morally bankrupt to me, and at his judgment, he stated that the only thing that mattered to him was that he'd failed to save his son, then got mouthy and told the Inquisitor that she and all her associates were all doomed anyway. Faced with justice, he basically says, "Screw you." So at the time I was not inclined to be merciful.

 

Erimond is a sick, horrible creep, and I'll be honest, I was itching to take his head off. But I thought the Wardens had more right to mete out justice on him than I did, so I handed him over to them. I never did hear what they did with him. I figured they'd probably kill him, and didn't care, but if they decided to conscript him instead, that's their prerogative. He could be an asset to them if he learned to behave.

 

I really enjoy the fact that none of Corypheus's top people actually consider him a god; they all see him as a means to their own, other ends. I can't speak for Calpernia, since I haven't met her yet, but she sounds interesting from what little I've gleaned. Samson is a horrible person, but he's fascinating. I handed him over to Cullen. And I just love sentencing Florianne to work on a farm, it feels very fitting.

[Scuttlebutt101]

@scuttlebutt that dude showed up for me in various places around Skyhokd (the first was the vault!)

Yeah, I saw him in a couple more places too. The first time I met him was in the barn after starting Revelations for the very first time. Way to kill the mood 

 

@Silent X, I sentenced Florianne's corpse in a box to community service. Cracked me up good 

 

As for the dialogue bug, I wish they'd just release a final patch fixing all the dialogues and non-game-breaking bugs, Maker knows there are still plenty in the game.

[AtreiyaN7]

@silent: I forgave Alexius primarily because Dorian told me what he used to be like and the story about what had happened to his family. The way I see it is that grief and guilt twisted Alexius. He was devastated by losing his wife and learning that his son ended up with a fatal illness, and he believed that it happened because he wasn't there with them on that trip to protect them. He loved them both deeply and was desperate to save his son, desperate to the point that he allowed emotion to overtake reason and was willing to do literally anything - even help tear the world down around him if he had to. Was it smart? No, and deep down, I'm sure he realized how foolish it was to join forces with Corypheus.

 

At any rate, I usually take the redemptive route with most people, unless the person in question is a complete and utterly remorseless s--- like Erimond. Blackwall was the polar opposite if you compare him to Erimond and is someone who feels a deep level of guilt and remorse over what he's done, whereas Erimond doesn't give a flying fig about the damage he's done and is totally unrepentant when being judged by the Inquisitor.

[vertigomez]

So, Blackwall thread... who's your favorite Inquisitor-voice to romance him with? I've heard bits of both on YT, but not enough to decide.

[Silent X]

@Scuttlebutt101

 

Ha, that works, too! I was happy with the outcome of keeping Florianne alive, though. Publicly exposing her crimes to the Court was just so damn satisfying, it unfolded like the denouement of a classical detective story. And I couldn't resist telling the guards to take her away at the end. Too much fun!  Sending her to work on a farm felt appropriately humbling without being sadistic. As the Inquisitor says in that option, she needs to learn what life is like for the people who have been hurt by her actions.

 

I would totally dig a patch to fix bugged dialogue. BioWare knows how much players care about that, right? Characterization is probably their single greatest strength as a developer, even before storytelling; I thought the structure of Mass Effect 2 was an acknowledgment that they knew what they were best at and therefore built a whole game around it.

 

@ AtreiyaN7

 

I think you're absolutely right about Alexius. I found it hard to reconcile the man Dorian described with the one I met in Redcliffe. At the time he just looked too far gone to me and I considered it next to impossible that he'd ever sort himself out; I may have been wrong about that, and as I said earlier, I did come to regret killing him. I don't feel that being a loving father makes his crime any less horrific, but I do feel that rehabilitation is generally better than revenge. That was kind of a dark and reactionary moment for my mostly good-hearted Lavellan. (I swear I'm not a horrible person, but I do have my faults. My Lavellan is roughly 70% noble, 20% clever, and 10% direct; certainly not a saint, but essentially a good person. I felt that as apprentice to a fairly open-minded Keeper, she had a deeply ingrained sense of social responsibility and compassion, but the difficulties of Dalish life had also given her a definite cynical streak and a low tolerance for bull****.) I still feel that it was character-appropriate for her to make the mistake of killing him at the time, and that her later regret is good character growth. I played Subjected to His Will and Revelations back to back originally, and in the first I had Cole remain a spirit because I thought forgiveness sounded better. I felt this wonderful thematic symmetry between the two quests, with my Inquisitor going from telling Cole that he needed to learn how to forgive to finding herself in a situation where she needed to forgive. Then right after that I did The Left Hand of the Divine, which was total mood whiplash as I saw Leliana become steeled (because my then-nervous, fish-out-of-water Dalish elf didn't feel it was her place to tell Leliana what to do, and didn't intervene to save Butler).

 

I also totally agree about Erimond. I think he was the most generally repugnant person we had to judge and I saw no redeeming qualities in him. I'm sure there must be more to him than what we saw, but all I saw was ambition and greed, no love or compassion anywhere. At least with Alexius and Samson we know that they jumped off the deep end because they felt that life (or in Samson's case more specifically the Chantry) had screwed them over for caring about other people. I agree with Cullen that "'He used to be kind' only goes so far" (I think that's what he said when asked about Samson's background), but by then my Inquisitor was more tempered and stayed her hand, believing that Samson might still be able to do some good, given the chance. Erimond, though, is just horrible through and through. I was actually tempted to make him tranquil, and was disgusted with myself for being tempted. Handing him over to the Wardens feels fair to me.

 

My Keep did say that my Inquisitor was a merciful judge overall. You may criticize me for sending Ser Ruth to the Deep Roads, but I didn't do it out of malice. To me it was obvious she had a death wish and I was convinced that if I didn't give her a way out of life, she'd find one on her own. I figured if she went to the Deep Roads and died killing Darkspawn that the death she was so determined to have could at least serve a good purpose. Poor woman.

 

Um, I seem to be wandering off-topic lately. Sorry. Have a totally on-topic screenshot! Closest I could find to a good battle couple pic. 

 

 

[AtreiyaN7]

@verti: Welps, I liked AWR for my Inquisitor, but I tend to find English/assorted U.K. accents in general as being more appealing. I thought it worked pretty well with Blackwall for me at least.

 

@silent: I actually gave in to temptation and did, in fact, make Erimond a Tranquil at one point (and that was on my mage Inquisitor who tends to find the whole Tranquil thing repugnant because she's a mage). I'm not sure I've ever seen that much disapproval flash across my screen all at once - lol. I really, REALLY upset just about everyone with that decision, and I think there was even a war table mission to try to appease my mage allies after that. I ended up reloading since so many people were in such a tizzy over it and just handed him off to the Wardens (did toss him in a cell once, but giving him to the Wardens feels a tad more satisfying).

[Bugsie]

I know some of you aren't fans of beardless Blackwall, but I saw this today on Tumblr from lustandai and I am so compromised it's not funny.

 

[Silent X]

@ vertigomez

 

I also really like Alix Wilton Regan's performance in Blackwall's romance. I love Sumalee Montano's voice for my dwarf, but she isn't romancing Blackwall, so I don't know how she compares in that particular respect. I would pick whichever voice feels like a better fit for how you see your character, and you'll probably be fine.

 

@ AtreiyaN7

 

I had to check the wiki after reading your post. Not everyone disapproves of it!  But if you're like me, some people's disapproval means more than others'. Blackwall slightly disapproved of something I did once. Once, in the whole game, as far as I can remember, and when it happened, I just kind of froze for a moment and was like, "Oh, no, what did I do wrong?" Then I told myself I should be able to take one slight disagreement. Vivienne's disapproval, on the other hand, was pretty much a joke to my Lavellan. And I became resigned to Cassandra's. We eventually became friends, but it took a long time. I think Cassandra disapproved of every single one of my main story decisions to some degree, but it made it that much more meaningful that she and my Inquisitor were able to overcome their differences of opinion and really come to think highly of each other.

 

Totally agree that giving Erimond to the Wardens is better than jailing him at Skyhold. I don't him in my stronghold anyway, yuck. And one of the reasons I hesitated over Blackwall's judgment originally was because I found myself thinking, "Give him to the Wardens, like I gave Erimond to the Wardens? But my reasons for doing so in this case would be completely different!" I really should have heeded all the instincts that made me reluctant to send Thom to the Wardens, instead of giving in to "duty." There's more than one way to atone.

 

@ Bugsie

 

Whoa, he looks completely different! Not actually bad, but really different. I do prefer the beard, but it's his face. If he decided to shave, I'm sure my Lavellan would get used to it eventually. I wonder, would he be more inclined to shave after confessing, granted that he grew the beard because Warden Constable Blackwall had had one? I guess I don't have to worry too much, since he still has the beard two years later in Trespasser. It might still be symbolic to him, representing his commitment to taking his life in a new, better direction. 

 

Edit: Oh, and Sera draws him as "a heroic beard," which is priceless, IMO.

[Gilsa]

So, Blackwall thread... who's your favorite Inquisitor-voice to romance him with? I've heard bits of both on YT, but not enough to decide.

 
Can't help you. I usually forget to change the voice in CC so it's on default most of the time. I think both are fine. =p
 

I know some of you aren't fans of beardless Blackwall, but I saw this today on Tumblr from lustandai and I am so compromised it's not funny.
 

WOW. What a treasure! Thanks for sharing that.

I appreciate the beardless mod for opening up his hidden facial expressions so this is real nice to see. There is this one beard mod that has me LOLing forever where the center parts of the chin are shaved, but the rest is left alone. He looks like a biker and comes across as extra intense. I think I'll probably use that in Trespasser when the time comes. (If it doesn't crash.)

Edit: Is the above GIF tied to the "Too soon?" line for the humans?

[AtreiyaN7]

@silent: Yeah, there were a few people who were okay with a Tranquil Erimond - Bull, Viv, and Cass, but since my four favorite guys disapproved (plus my entire mage alliance having their knickers in a twist), I was like NOPE. You're right that certain people's opinions mattered more than others; the fact that Dorian, Cole, Solas, and Blackwall disapproved mattered a lot since they're the ones whose opinions I have always given the most weight to (Viv's opinion is generally a non-factor for me).

I was surprised that Blackwall disapproved of it (totally get Dorian, Cole, and Solas disapproving), but I suppose that he felt the Wardens were wronged and wanted to see them get some measure of justice after what Erimond did, mainly because he really idealizes the Wardens and believes so strongly in what the Wardens stand for (especially since it's one way in which people can atone). Also, he probably isn't keen on lobotomizing people in general (no matter how much said person might actually deserve that lobotomy), but that's just a guess.

[Scuttlebutt101]

I know some of you aren't fans of beardless Blackwall, but I saw this today on Tumblr from lustandai and I am so compromised it's not funny.

 

 

 

I love the beard, but I think I love the the beardless version more. He has fantastic face. I would totally install this mod if I could figure out how  I'm a technological moron. And yeah, I think its from the "Too soon?" line, Gilsa.

 

@vertigomez, I've never used Sumalee so can't comment on her, but I really like how Alix and Alastair sound together. I think her softer kind of voice compliments Blackwall's deeper voice well.