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[Bugsie]

I will never understand, given the bigger themes and how the characters play out in the game, how people actually justify that one character is so much 'worthier' of redemption than another.

 

For me and my main OC, I will try and redeem Solas because Ciara is a compassionate soul, she lost Iron Bull because of the choices she made and she lives with that everyday. As long as she can stop Solas, she will try as much as she can to save him in the process.

 

I detest when people try and contrast characters to try and give legitimacy for shitty behavior of one over the other. I saw it with Cullen and Samson, I refuse to buy into the debate between Blackwall and Solas, because there is no debate. They are different characters with different arcs who have both done shitty horrible things. I will not be drawn into arguments about this, its petty and dumb.

 

You'll excuse how angry I am about this - but today I found out that people have been targeted for having different viewpoints about Solas - abusive anons for having their Lavellan character move on, others for still liking him or even loving him, yet being critical of what he has planned - then I heard through the grapevine through my friends who are Solasmancers someone sent death threats (of the 'go kill yourself variety) and I was sickened to my core. Then to top it off, people trying to drum up drama between Blackwall and Solas fans.

 

UGH fandom, stop, this behaviour is juvenile.

[AtreiyaN7]

@bugsie: Well, that sounds like completely ridiculous behavior. I've defended Solas in a couple of threads here after the Trespasser-related revelations. Personally, I still consider him the Inquisitor's friend and one who's doing what he does only with a considerable amount of reluctance. He's left the door open that the Inquisitor might prove him wrong again and convince him to not go through with things. Additionally, he helps the Inquisitor survive and allows him/her to leave unharmed - something that pretty obviously shows that Solas is not actually some horrible mass-murdering lunatic with no conscience (which seems to be how some people want to portray him).

 

I think the problem is that a lot of people who do nutty stuff like send death threats or get really wacko about things is that they are capable only of seeing a character in terms of black and white. When faced with a character doing something that they don't like or don't expect, then they seem to refuse to accept and acknowledge the possibility that a character can be complicated and might even have both positive and negative traits. They'll just take the one thing that they don't like and run with it as ammunition with which they can demonize a character.

 

But back to Solas, I read a lot of the history-related stuff in the game and listened to what Solas said and put things together. I feel it helped me to understand who he used to be, what his motivations were in the past, and how it all played into his attitude towards - and interactions with - others. I don't approve of Solas's plans (for obvious reasons), but I think I mostly get him at this point, still like him because of our interesting conversations, and would generally prefer to save him if possible rather than being forced to destroy him.

[Gilsa]

Oof, that's harsh. Where's that kind of vibe coming from? I only follow maybe 30 people on tumblr and then I just hang out in dwarf-specific hashtags from there so I'm not seeing a lot of that crossfire. (Oh, just to be clear, I wasn't comparing Solas to Blackwall. I was just wanting to make the knee-jerk renegade choice to protect the dwarven people and failing to find an excuse to do so based on the character's prior judgments in the game, that's all.) I'm sorry about the stuff your friends are dealing with.

[Bugsie]

Oh no, not you Gilsa, some things I read on tumblr people trying to stir the pot, it doesn't usually go anywhere but seeing pop up is damn annoying. I follow far too many people!

I'd talk more about Solas because I really like him, he's interesting on a lot of levels, lore, elves, power dynamics, but I Am critical of him as much as I am critical of Blackwall or any character I appreciate at multiple levels so I've been selective about which Solas fans I talk to about him because I'm wary about people treating me like crap because I love Blackwall too.

But anyway, just been a trying day in the fandom all round. I just want to have fun, not be insulted for a choice I make in a video game of all things.

As for my friends, they're okay, taking it far more diplomatically than I would. Kudos to them.

[Dieb]

And I was torn on what to do at the end of Trespasser because of Blackwall. Don't know if we are still tagging spoilers at this point, but I'll be safe:

 

Spoiler

On one hand, I was like "dude, you're wiping out my people, you're gonna go down" versus "well, I showed compassion to Blackwall, does this mean I have to show compassion to Solas and try to redeem him too? Will I be a hypocrite if I hunt him down like a dog?" WHAT TO DO.

 

(I wussed out and chose compassion.)

 

Spoiler

I don't believe it's quite the same thing. Rainier is no longer a threat towards anyone in such a capacity, after having carried out his terrible deed long ago, and evidently actively works against it those days. Solas is still fully determined to go on through with his plans.

 

You didn't have to stop Rainier from anything anymore, you just punished him (or not), which in my opinion is based on a completely different flavour of morality.

[Silent X]

Man, it's been busy in here!

 

@DwarvaVashoth and Scuttlebutt101

 

Thanks for the crazy beard pics. I LOL'd so much.

 

@ Scuttlebutt and Gilsa

 

Thank you for enlightening me re: Blackwall's conversation with Trevelyan! I find that convo rather endearing, but I'm okay with the racial version I've heard twice, too. His rapid apology to my Lavellan's "Well, direct is better than knife-ear," made a good impression on her.

 

Also, re: waking up naked in the barn. Well, it did kind of bother me for my character's sake, because she was sleeping nude right next to a huge window up in the mountains and therefore would logically have been freezing. And the hayloft is kind of exposed; as soon as she got up she found the stableboy's letter (I don't know how long it had been there, I'm not sure I'd gone up to the loft before), which leaves me wondering if he and his girlfriend wandered up while Lavellan was sleeping and stared at her. Good thing Thedas doesn't have cameras. But I'd guess the Dalish probably aren't all that hung up about nudity anyway.

 

For my own part, though, as a gay woman I confess I was thinking, "Hey, whaddaya know, choosing a straight romance kind of worked out for me!" Which was followed by, "But I imagine most of the people who choose this romance are straight women, so it must be kind of disappointing for them." I hope the sexy Tarot card goes some way toward making up for Blackwall keeping all his clothes on in the romance. (Though that card makes me a little sad now, as it shows the Inquisitor's two good arms wrapped around him, complete with Anchor. *sniff*)

 

@ Gilsa

 

I also started off my Cadash as kind of an a-hole. I knew I couldn't keep it up for a whole game anyway, and was planning for her to have a sort of epiphany during In Your Heart Shall Burn, but then it turned out that Champions of the Just shook her up pretty good. There's nothing quite like meeting someone who really is a lot like you, only much worse, to make you take a good hard look in the mirror. That and the combined pressure of all these weird, altruistic people around her, gradually eroding her understanding of the world (which was, take care of your own, business is business, and if anyone gets in your way, their life is forfeit). Last time I played, she'd just given Blackwall his first Grey Warden artifact and chose the "I'm hiding the bad" option when he said he admired her. And then he says he won't pry and he only wants to believe good things about her. Awww. Yeah, another good influence (though my Cadash is set on finding a way into Sera's pants heart).

 

And re: Solas, their backgrounds and circumstances are different, but the idea of forgiveness/redemption, their possibilities and limits, seems to be a big theme in Inquisition (somewhat player optional, but definitely present). I think I've mentioned before in here that my Lavellan considered Solas her mentor, so of course she has to try to find a way to dissuade him, or reunite him with his people without destroying the world as we know it, if that's possible. If it isn't possible, though, she couldn't just stand by and let him kill everyone. It's almost the reverse of Blackwall, in a way. In Blackwall's case you have to decide whether retribution for a crime long past is necessary versus allowing him to atone; with Solas it looks as though we may be faced with the decision of whether we can kill someone we may care about in order to prevent them from committing a terrible crime. I hope we won't have to, but if it's Solas or the world, the world wins. Killing Blackwall wouldn't bring back the Calliers. I suppose the revenge vs. redemption theme isn't really that new. We had it with Loghain and Anders, too, but I don't really mind that it keeps coming up. It's a powerful theme, and each instance is somewhat different.

[Solistace]

Hello Blackwall Forum
Hoping someone nice here might be able to help me, I'm trying to unlock the

Spoiler

BlackwallxJosie Romance Banter

- I hope that did a spoiler post thingy - 1st time here :-D
I have exhausted all of my Blackwall/Sera Banter, Varric/Blackwall Banter and I think all of my Sera/Varric Banter. 
I'm at a complete loss here, and going crazy. Is there anyone who can confirm how to unlock this? I am a Solasmancer so I'm def not locked into a romance with either.

[Bugsie]

@solistace Hmmm, I had the banter unlock on an unromanced (male) inquisitor when I had sera and Blackwall with me, I might have had bull too in that party. Are there flowers on her desk? Has Leliana mentioned it at the war table? If the flowers are there you can actually talk to her about it and she tells you more.

[Solistace]

@solistace Hmmm, I had the banter unlock on an unromanced (male) inquisitor when I had sera and Blackwall with me, I might have had bull too in that party. Are there flowers on her desk? Has Leliana mentioned it at the war table? If the flowers are there you can actually talk to her about it and she tells you more.

Leilana hasn't mentioned anything and no flowers. I read on other forums that it either unlocks via Sera, Varric or Cole. But I don't really fancy exhausting another banter avenue of Cole/Blackwall. At the moment, if I put Sera Varric & Blackwall in a party I get zero banter or just zone area banter (e.g there's lots of trees here)
Have also tried just Sera and Blackwall and just Varric & Blackwall. I was under the impression the flowers don't appear until after the banter. Have also youtubed it and seen the Sera banter and the Varric Banter. I managed to get

Spoiler

BullxDorian

to unlock through banter and then I had the option to speak to both of them about it so I'm assuming its the same sort of system. I'm timing my banters every 15mins and everything too. I have done Blackwalls personal quest but apparantly that doesn't affect it. I've finished every zone except for Emprise Du Lion and am up to

Spoiler

Mythal's Temple with Morrigan

in terms of main story....... 

[berelinde]

Solistace, I've had the Blackwall/Josie banter unlock with Bull and with Varric, but only if I've been romancing Dorian. This may be specific to my installation, but I only seem to get it if there's no chance of Bull/Dorian hooking up, as if the game is only going to allow one NPC/NPC romance, if that makes any sense. Others may have a completely different experience with it, though.

 

Regarding the Solas vs Blackwall comparisons, the intent of the poster matters. A lot of people are just stirring the pot. Others seem to have defective empathy glands. A few seem to think that being a total inflexible self-righteous jacka__ is somehow badass and cool or contributes to their street cred in some way. I'm an unrepentant Anders fan. I've seen it before. It's possible to hold intelligent, open-minded debates about characters without overlooking their flaws, and it's possible to be critical of characters you adore, but it takes a degree of maturity. You can usually tell the posts worth responding to because they focus on the characters and their motivations rather than hyperbolic comparisons to mid 20th century European political figures or player outrage. Me, I've always appreciated flawed characters, even deeply flawed ones. They're more interesting.

[Solistace]

Solistace, I've had the Blackwall/Josie banter unlock with Bull and with Varric, but only if I've been romancing Dorian. This may be specific to my installation, but I only seem to get it if there's no chance of Bull/Dorian hooking up, as if the game is only going to allow one NPC/NPC romance, if that makes any sense. Others may have a completely different experience with it, though.

 

Oh wow, that would be interesting, that would explain it if that's the case. Thanks for that, At least I'll get it when I do my Bull Romance playthrough then. Anyone had both NPC romances in one playthough?

I might try Bull/Varric/Blackwall tomorrow on the offchance, but I'll have to exhaust Bull/Blackwall first....omg, Bioware fixed the banter bug while I was 70hrs in so I've had a lot of catching up to do. Currently 160hrs in after playing around with banter.

[SgtSteel91]

 

Alas, here's how I envision Rainier looking when allowed to live under his true identity:

 

 

 

 

I really like this armor on Blackwall and I wish that helm wasn't restricted to him. It matches so well with the Griffon Plate.

[berelinde]

Sgt Steel, if you are playing on PC, there's a mod that allows human males to use Blackwall's JoH helmets, but that won't help you if your gaming platform of choice isn't compatible with mods, or if you're running a female, or if you aren't running a human. In other words, odds are slim that my suggestion will even be relevant. Sorry. And I feel your pain. I love the Griffon Plate, but it really needs a specific kind of helmet. I use the Inquisitor Helm for everyone who isn't a human male.

[Gilsa]

I've never been able to get Blackwall x Josie to trigger on my run, but I have read comments elsewhere that some people use the cheat engine banter script to get the conversations to fire faster and hopefully trigger the Josie talk. I do remember that one theory is that the Inquisitor needs to be locked in a relationship, right? Before the companions start dating each other? I don't know anything about the Solas romance, but I've seen people say you're not actually locked in the Solas romance until he breaks up with you? Could that be a factor? I'm just throwing out ideas here.

[Dieb]

You have to bring Varric along. He will speak to Blackwall about it once they've exhausted all the him writing a book about Blackwall related banter.

 

Also, and I may be less certain in this regard, you would have to either be in a romance yourself or have blown every opportunity to romance Josephine, at the point you want it to trigger.

 

Sgt Steel, if you are playing on PC, there's a mod that allows human males to use Blackwall's JoH helmets, but that won't help you if your gaming platform of choice isn't compatible with mods, or if you're running a female, or if you aren't running a human. In other words, odds are slim that my suggestion will even be relevant. Sorry. And I feel your pain. I love the Griffon Plate, but it really needs a specific kind of helmet. I use the Inquisitor Helm for everyone who isn't a human male.

 

I don't know, Vivienne and Cole also get their unique helmets based on approval, I think they just discarded Blackwall's and added it again with the DLC.

 

The fact that it matches perfectly with the carvings on the Griffon Plate also have me suspect that there may have indeed been a plan to have him appear in non-Warden-branded getup at some point, once. Ironically, despite the name it was given with Trespasser. Rainier never made Chevalier himself, but this is how I would imagine a high-ranking Orlesian knight to look like.

[Joe25]

But wait, there's more!

 

Spoiler

 

Source

Are you sure that is all his beard? He could have just unbutton his shirt.

[berelinde]

Are you sure that is all his beard? He could have just unbutton his shirt.

At that point, it stops being a beard and becomes a pelt!

 

I love how the points of his beard extend past the hem of his gambeson. That's one heck of a soup strainer!

[Joe25]

At that point, it stops being a beard and becomes a pelt!

 

I love how the points of his beard extend past the hem of his gambeson. That's one heck of a soup strainer!

I like to think that Blackwall's body hair is more of a bodysuit than a man sweater.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I've never been able to get Blackwall x Josie to trigger on my run, but I have read comments elsewhere that some people use the cheat engine banter script to get the conversations to fire faster and hopefully trigger the Josie talk. I do remember that one theory is that the Inquisitor needs to be locked in a relationship, right? Before the companions start dating each other? I don't know anything about the Solas romance, but I've seen people say you're not actually locked in the Solas romance until he breaks up with you? Could that be a factor? I'm just throwing out ideas here.

 

Since y'all were kind enough to help me out

 

I use Cheat Engine to trigger banters.  If you're only interested in getting the Josie banter to fire at all, press 2 instead of 1 to play all available banters for the characters in a row.  As for Solas, you lock in at his balcony kiss.  After that, any attempts to flirt with Cullen for SCIENCE got me shut down, and there is no way to break up with Solas until his scene about the vallaslin.

[Bugsie]

Regarding the Solas vs Blackwall comparisons, the intent of the poster matters. A lot of people are just stirring the pot. Others seem to have defective empathy glands. A few seem to think that being a total inflexible self-righteous jacka__ is somehow badass and cool or contributes to their street cred in some way. I'm an unrepentant Anders fan. I've seen it before. It's possible to hold intelligent, open-minded debates about characters without overlooking their flaws, and it's possible to be critical of characters you adore, but it takes a degree of maturity. You can usually tell the posts worth responding to because they focus on the characters and their motivations rather than hyperbolic comparisons to mid 20th century European political figures or player outrage. Me, I've always appreciated flawed characters, even deeply flawed ones. They're more interesting.

Yeah exactly, I have a fondness for deeply flawed individuals and their motivations, also the idea that 'good' characters can't have flaws means people a missing an extra layer of characterization that gives us more to talk about.

 

For some people it's much easier to think in black and white.

 

On to different things - I would have liked Blackwall to have had some of the things from his concept art, a few grey hairs, an earring, and I am overly fond of manbuns.

[Sable Rhapsody]

On to different things - I would have liked Blackwall to have had some of the things from his concept art, a few grey hairs, an earring, and I am overly fond of manbuns.

 

There is a Bunwall mod.

 

Out of curiosity, do you live in southern California?  Maybe it's just my neighborhood, but I feel like I've seen a rash of manbuns in the last year or so.

[Solistace]

I've never been able to get Blackwall x Josie to trigger on my run, but I have read comments elsewhere that some people use the cheat engine banter script to get the conversations to fire faster and hopefully trigger the Josie talk. I do remember that one theory is that the Inquisitor needs to be locked in a relationship, right? Before the companions start dating each other? I don't know anything about the Solas romance, but I've seen people say you're not actually locked in the Solas romance until he breaks up with you? Could that be a factor? I'm just throwing out ideas here.

 

 

Since y'all were kind enough to help me out

 

I use Cheat Engine to trigger banters.  If you're only interested in getting the Josie banter to fire at all, press 2 instead of 1 to play all available banters for the characters in a row.  As for Solas, you lock in at his balcony kiss.  After that, any attempts to flirt with Cullen for SCIENCE got me shut down, and there is no way to break up with Solas until his scene about the vallaslin.

Thanks everyone for the responses :-D

Alas I am playing on PS4 so I've got to trigger my banters the old fashioned way.
Sable Rhapsody is correct, you are locked into Solas with the balcony kiss, you just don't get his tarot until the vallaslin scene. Also I've successfully had Sera/Solas banter regarding us bumping bits to which Solas was not impressed - and yeah, Cullen will shut me down :-D

 

You have to bring Varric along. He will speak to Blackwall about it once they've exhausted all the him writing a book about Blackwall related banter.

 

Also, and I may be less certain in this regard, you would have to either be in a romance yourself or have blown every opportunity to romance Josephine, at the point you want it to trigger.

 

 

 

I am almost certain I have exhausted Varric/Blackwall. And I managed to get BullxDorian with little trouble, it just took a while. Had to completely exhaust their banters. However I am wondering if Berelinds theory earlier might have some truth to it that the game will only allow one NPCxNPC romance per playthrough. I suppose since I have done BullxDorian and know what to look out for, I can test on a different quizzy and try BlackwallxJosie first and then see if BullxDorian will unlock aswell. 

[Bugsie]

 

There is a Bunwall mod.

 

Out of curiosity, do you live in southern California?  Maybe it's just my neighborhood, but I feel like I've seen a rash of manbuns in the last year or so.

No! But there are hipsters with manbuns aplenty downunder!

[Excella Gionne]

 

First time reaching this scene... Has it become a thing that Blackwall be romanced by an elfquisitor?

[90s Kai]

I will never understand, given the bigger themes and how the characters play out in the game, how people actually justify that one character is so much 'worthier' of redemption than another.
 
For me and my main OC, I will try and redeem Solas because Ciara is a compassionate soul, she lost Iron Bull because of the choices she made and she lives with that everyday. As long as she can stop Solas, she will try as much as she can to save him in the process.
 
I detest when people try and contrast characters to try and give legitimacy for shitty behavior of one over the other. I saw it with Cullen and Samson, I refuse to buy into the debate between Blackwall and Solas, because there is no debate. They are different characters with different arcs who have both done shitty horrible things. I will not be drawn into arguments about this, its petty and dumb.
 
You'll excuse how angry I am about this - but today I found out that people have been targeted for having different viewpoints about Solas - abusive anons for having their Lavellan character move on, others for still liking him or even loving him, yet being critical of what he has planned - then I heard through the grapevine through my friends who are Solasmancers someone sent death threats (of the 'go kill yourself variety) and I was sickened to my core. Then to top it off, people trying to drum up drama between Blackwall and Solas fans.
 
UGH fandom, stop, this behaviour is juvenile.

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