People whine how they couldn't side with Cerberus in ME3 when what I wanted most in ME2 was to say go to hell to TIM.
Whenever there was an option to screw Cerberus, I took it. I think blowing up the Collector Base was as Jacob said a great way to tell the boss you're quitting.
Gee if I was zevran on day two of joining the warden I'd slit his throat in the night go back to the crows have a beer and say mission accomplished!
And end up dead. This of course ignores the fact that numerous companions say they will be watching Zevran closely to make sure that he doesn't try to to assassinate the Warden. Unless we're saying that said companions are completely useless, and our Warden also isn't watching Zevran closely as well his chances at actually succeeding are about the same as the first time he attempted to kill you.
He is in the cage for going berserk and killing an innocent family including kids. We have zero idea what he feels are in his best interests when we meet him.
His best interests are not being in the cage, but he will still accept being left in it. Sten is actually more surprised that the Warden would actually WANT to recruit him.
You have to recruit them fairly quickly and that means you have to actually believe what they are telling you. Nothing at all suggests that any of these people should be believed in a thing they say.
By this logic none of the companions should be trusted because they are lying about everything they say. I find it amusing that you distrust the companions that are completely honest to you from the beginning. It's not like any of these companions are complete copies of Morinth who stands as the only companion in a Bioware game that is actually a threat to your character.
*Insert Lotion Soronarr's last quote here*
Mages may have many spells at their disposal, but seeing as Bioware didn't allow us to investigate the bodies we will never know for certain that he killed the templars. Rylock shows up and claims Anders killed the templars, but unless she is clairvoyant she has no way to tell that either and is probably using her own biases in her judgement.
Since you admit Anders has no reason to be violent towards you how is he a risk?
Is there a reason Anders would lie about his prior escape attempts? If a person has a violent history chances are they will continue to be violent in the future and vice versa. So his prior attempts actually do mean something.
Seeing as your Warden can protest joining the Wardens numerous times before Ostagar I don't see "being able to follow orders" to be a big requirement. We also have to take into account that the wardens have a history of recruiting violent murderers, thieves, blood mages, and other questionable characters, and to the best of our knowledge that hasn't backfired on them.
Edit: Yay for the quote system breaking.
I don't know. It's possible. Indoctrination can have multiple stages of severity. Either way though, Illusive Man's methods grew more extreme in the third game, but his goals, at least in a general sense, always seemed to remain essentially the same: Using the Reapers to secure human superiority.
Only in a very general sense, He goes from more then eager to have Shepard remaining in his camp, to sending hit squads after him the entire third game.
It didn't add up to me, even though, Bioware released that comic just so that line of logic wouldn't be completely full of holes, More then willing to study technology doesn't translate into shoving said technology into his own people's skulls. When Cerberus for the most part went out of its way to protect it self and Humanity, Ultimately it doesn't matter, ME 3 is dead and done, and TIM along with it.
When do they ever send hit squads after Shepard directly? If memory serves, pretty much all of Shepard's encounters are them trying to sabotage everyone else, and hunt after their other defectors.
When do they ever send hit squads after Shepard directly? If memory serves, pretty much all of Shepard's encounters are them trying to sabotage everyone else, and hunt after their other defectors.
Thessia, Temple of the Ancients.
There are a couple more where the objective was to eliminate Shepard, Along with other things.
Not many, as you said they mostly were doing their own thing when Shepard ran into them, but TIM did target shepard a few times through out the game.
Still i like to point for the massive rewrite to blame for the sudden inconsistencies.
His opinion of Shepard is not central to his agenda. His ultimate goal was always to "secure human dominance against the reapers and beyond". He also believes that the reaper tech is the way to do that and that "Cerberus is humanity".
The version we saw in ME 3 was just the logical extreme of that goal.
If by 'logical extreme' we throw out any logical strategizing and amp up the extreme to eleven.
Seriously. Cerberus in ME2 was operationally inept but strategically/ideologically sound. In ME3 they fixed the operational competence, but gave up any pretense of a coherent ideology or strategy behind what they were doing: they were there to be shot as a non-Reaper enemy, and not much more.
I mean- not even attempting a fake alliance to stab a desperate galaxy in the back? Or helping to build the Crucible with proprietary technology and intelligence onlly to attempt an eleventh hour theft? Instead of a well-timed backstab after leveraging galactic desperation for their own gains, Cerberus picks an open fight from the very start?
That's without even dwelling on how striking a public alliance with the Alliance could have gotten them pretty much everything they could get through opposition, and then some.
His opinion of Shepard is not central to his agenda. His ultimate goal was always to "secure human dominance against the reapers and beyond". He also believes that the reaper tech is the way to do that and that "Cerberus is humanity".
The version we saw in ME 3 was just the logical extreme of that goal.
Retribution taught him that technology had faults and dangers he even admitted as much privately, The collector base, reaper fragments, ultimately are one thing, logical usage of enemy components of warfare to augment you're own strength, but granting the Reapers control of your entire organization? Of yourself? Where does that "Logic" come from?
TIM viewed Cerberus and Humanities continued strength as one in the same, that is true but that was mostly due to them being able and willing to cross lines that governments couldn't. Like the Spectre's.
I don't see it that way obviously.
Ugh.....please take the ME talk to the ME forums. We're way off topic here.
You now its not all bad. In Skyrim I met my wife by beating the crap out of her. Better love story than twilight
Strange to think about since (besides Velanna, DA2 anders) I liked all of those characters more than the other one.
And end up dead. This of course ignores the fact that numerous companions say they will be watching Zevran closely to make sure that he doesn't try to to assassinate the Warden. Unless we're saying that said companions are completely useless, and our Warden also isn't watching Zevran closely as well his chances at actually succeeding are about the same as the first time he attempted to kill you.
So it is a good use of resouces to set a 24 hour shift to make sure one member who is super huigh risk doesn't kill members of the group? That makes a whale of a lot fo sense doesn't it. Also, why is he dead if he goes back to the crows, he kills the warden as he is supposed to and succeeds.
His best interests are not being in the cage, but he will still accept being left in it. Sten is actually more surprised that the Warden would actually WANT to recruit him.
Yes.......and? What does any of that have to do with me as a player taking him into my party?
By this logic none of the companions should be trusted because they are lying about everything they say. I find it amusing that you distrust the companions that are completely honest to you from the beginning. It's not like any of these companions are complete copies of Morinth who stands as the only companion in a Bioware game that is actually a threat to your character.
I would use the word naive but that would not be strong enough. All of the ones I listed present immediate very real danger and have proven it the moment you meet them unlike most of the other companions who may or may not end up trustworthy.
*
Edit: Yay for the quote system breaking.
You're concerned about Anders escaping the Templars, so you give him to the Templar? That doesn't strike me as terribly logical.
And the Templar wanted to have Anders hanged for murder, which he pretty clearly wasn't guilty of.
Why wouldn't he? It's obvious that keeping him with the Warden means he'll just escape them as well...which he did....although I consider the parting mutual.
A logical Warden could just see Anders as a future headache who could split in the middle of battle at any time.
The writers want us to like AND hate companions. Any strong opinion is better than complete ambivalence.
Yeah but the problem is getting dropped kicked in the face with all the reason why you shouldn't like them before saying "hello"
Since you admit Anders has no reason to be violent towards you how is he a risk?
Is there a reason Anders would lie about his prior escape attempts? If a person has a violent history chances are they will continue to be violent in the future and vice versa. So his prior attempts actually do mean something.
- He has no reason ATM. People in general do not kill just for the kicks. However, if he at any point thought you'd hand him over to the templars?
- Why wouldn't he lie? Any person with 2 brain cells to rub together would do that. A Warden is in position to give Anders what he wants.
- his prior attempts mean preciously little, even assuming you can trust his version. People aren't born murders. They become so. Heck, Hitler was a nice kid too at some point.
Did you really have to resort to Godwin?
I mean, go with Ghenghis Khan- total momma's boy by reputation, brutally conquered the largest empire the world has ever known.
Did you really have to resort to Godwin?
I mean, go with Ghenghis Khan- total momma's boy by reputation, brutally conquered the largest empire the world has ever known.
This is BSN, Dean.
You know a thread without a good Godwin is not complete. 
Yeah, but envoking Godwin is for the unclassy people, not you!
1)Anders kill some Templars and Darkspawns...nothing bad..Grey Wardens always need those mages and this is the only way for him to be legally free from Chantry...can join
2)Nathaniel from Howe Family who betray Ferelden and try to kill you, and he want to do the same...execute him
3)Zevran was hired to kill you...kill him
4)Sten kill some peoples because of loosing his sword and he is a Qunari...leave him in cage
5)Valanna does not have any reason to kill you she want her sister back and thats all, you have common enemy...hire her or leave
Yeah, but envoking Godwin is for the unclassy people, not you!
I feel deep shame.
Well I would if I did care about this Godwin fella.
How exactly did you know that?
Plot armor.
A player knows a follower will not kill him in his sleep. It never happened. But really it should happen.
Even the most evil and deranged followers that eventually turn on you, do it in a "honorable" fashion of a 1-vs-1 duel (which thing being a game you *WILL* win), sometimes even 3-vs-1 duels (since you have the rest of your companions with you)
Guest_darkisis357_*
Maybe it's just me, but I think there is a huge difference between deciding to recruit someone and trusting someone. Could they attempt to sneak into my tent in the night and kill me? Sure. So could the darkspawn. Perhaps I have a well fortified tent, lol.
I don't know I recruited everyone- even Leliana and she seemed a little off- just for the fact my Warden needed allies. Sten, Zevran, and Anders had funny dialogue if you recruited them- you missed out.
Maybe it's just me, but I think there is a huge difference between deciding to recruit someone and trusting someone. Could they attempt to sneak into my tent in the night and kill me? Sure. So could the darkspawn. Perhaps I have a well fortified tent, lol.
I played one Warden as a crazy guy who thought he was invincible. "Come on in you cutthroat elf. I'll magically wake up from my sleep and make you eat them ears if you try to kill me...let me take off my clothes, get completely vulnerable, and have hot sex with you too." It worked. 
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