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Because someone would still be upset, and because of it taking more budget, certain LIs would almost certainly get more attention than others. The ones getting the most attention would probably be the straight ones. Then the bi ones. And last of all, the afterthought gay/lesbian. No one likes to be an afterthought.
This isn't the ME team though, the DA team would most likely handle it better
I am just going to reiterate my preference here: I would prefer all bisexual LI's but barring that (for those that prefer a set sexuality), I hope that they do 2 gay and 2 bi LIs.
....I hope that they do 2 gay and 2 bi LIs......
I see why you would say this, but this wouldn't teach anyone any lesson, though. Defense Argument 1 would be that it doesn't "make sense for character to be gay/lesbian/bi", regardless of the character. Even if the game was set in Denerim's gayborhood, they would fall back to Defense Argument 2, which states that "gay/lesbian/bi/trans characters are just giving into the politically correct's demands".
I'm sure that this has been said numerous time by other people, but my preference would be the ME3 approach with multiple straight, gay, and bisexual options for each gender. While it wasn't completely even, everyone got a choice and that's all I really am really asking for: a choice.
If the DA: I team went this route, they would probably be able to make it even for everyone. The main reason that it was so disproportionate in the ME series was because options carried over from prior games, which weren't equitable.
However, that being said, I'm perfectly fine with making them all bisexual from the start. It doesn't ruin immersion or cheapen the characters or strike me as too crazy of a prospect. If the option is all bisexual or no choice for some players (especially when others get a choice), then I prefer to go the all bisexual route.
"Not completely even" is an understatement. In ME3 a straight Femshep could easily be left with no options. I'm glad that there were options added in for non-straight Shepards, and glad straight male Shepard didn't lose out on much, but quite disappointed that the straight female Shepard got options taken away, particularly in the way that they did. But that's a discussion for elsewhere.
Again, I like the concept of six LIs of varying gender preferences. I just don't know if the execution would be done well. There's the budget issue rearing its ugly head again. I'd be concerned that even though there was relatively equal representation, you'd have uneven distribution of resources due to time/budget. So some might have more dialogue, and more polished dialogue, etc. Or they might all have lower quality. And yet, if it could be done equally, this way of handling things would certainly be ideal, as I said before. It seems like it would please the most people.
Again, in the absence of budget to make more than four characters love interests with proper writing and dialogue, either having them all be bisexual or player-oriented makes sense in the interests of fairness. But it's not ideal or even really a good solution, for reasons that others brought up that I, being a straight female, couldn't even have thought of. I guess it's true what they say about compromises: You just make everyone equally unhappy.
I'm sure they won't make the same mistake from ME3, Jacob was an bad move all around (though we aways knew Thane romance would end in tears). So the romances should be more fair in Inquisition.
I'm not an fan of the playersexual approach. I will still romance an character despite it. But what bothers me is that deep down I know these characters are not really made bisexual by preference, but rather are bisexual in order to please all the players who want all kind of romances, and that cheapens the experience for me.
You say that now and I believe that you think this. However, if this was the case in DA: I, then the case in the next ME game, then in the next DA game after that, you'd probably be pretty annoyed and would definitely be within your right to complain about it.
Now imagine that after the above scenario, they make all of the LI's playersexual, you would probably be okay with that (or at least not mind it as much as you do now). You would also probably be pretty annoyed at the gay and lesbian players if they were telling you to just suck it up after getting their way for several games in a row.
This maybe a surprise to you but no, I will not whine and complain if I didn't get equal number of or more of my preferred romances than someone else. As I said in almost all of my previous posts, I value quality of the game more than satisfying the needs of upset fans, and that includes me.
What you also don't realize is that the fact that I'm here, taking time to read all the posts and post my own thoughts is because I am not OK with playersexual characters. I am OK with anything but that, even if it means 2 gay and 2 bi characters like someone suggested a while ago.
It is because hetero romances were more in DA:O, I don't mind if homosexual romance options are more in DA:I. Bioware can even use that to shut people up, I sure wouldn't complain. Also, please stop bringing in ME series to the subject, that has nothing to do with what DA has to offer or has offered, not everyone played games in both franchises. So saying we got less homosexual romances in say, 2 ME games and 1 DA game is stupid, go to the ME forums if you(by "you" I don't mean you daveliam) have complaints about romances in those games.
Also, please stop bringing in ME series to the subject, that has nothing to do with what DA has to offer or has offered, not everyone played games in both franchises. So saying we got less ****** romances in say, 2 ME games and 1 DA game is stupid, go to the ME forums if you(by "you" I don't mean you daveliam) have complaints about romances in those games.
Not to mention that it was done a completely different Bioware team
You mean your response that meant nothing, since nobody's personality changed based on sexuality in DA2? Literally no personality changed based on sexuality, they changed based on friendship/rivalry, that's it.
Seriously? I KNOW their personality doesn't change based sexuality and I never made that claim. What I'm saying is, with playersexuality, that part of their personality is MISSING until we, the players, define it. Instantly. With a single choice. Their sexuality is nothing more than a gameplay mechanic that makes their personality feel incomplete, not fully realized, and difficult for me to immerse myself in.
I am just going to reiterate my preference here: I would prefer all bisexual LI's but barring that (for those that prefer a set sexuality), I hope that they do 2 gay and 2 bi LIs.
Didn't you just say you wanted equality? That only leaves straight inquisitors with two choices while everyone else gets four : / .
I see why you would say this, but this wouldn't teach anyone any lesson, though. Defense Argument 1 would be that it doesn't "make sense for character to be gay/lesbian/bi", regardless of the character. Even if the game was set in Denerim's gayborhood, they would fall back to Defense Argument 2, which states that "gay/lesbian/bi/trans characters are just giving into the politically correct's demands".
I very much respect your opinion in all areas but in this case, I'm just going to have to disagree and say that maybe until the shoe is on the other foot, some people will never see another persons side of things or have any empathy. (Although I am aware that some people are incapable of empathy, some have just never been introduced to it in a way that they can understand.)
Seriously? I KNOW their personality doesn't change based sexuality and I never made that claim. What I'm saying is that part of their personality is MISSING until we, the players, define it. That makes their personality feel incomplete, not fully realized.
Didn't you just say you wanted equality? That only leaves straight inquisitors with two choices while everyone else gets four : / .
I absolutely want equality, however, based on other peoples posts here, equality isn't as important as the characters having a set sexuality. In that case, I would prefer 2 gays and 2 bi LI's. Do you not understand what I'm saying? I am just settlling based on those who oppose the all bi-sexual route's opinion. They would rather have set sexualities, to which I say fine. 2 gay and 2 bi are set sexualities.
Seriously? I KNOW their personality doesn't change based sexuality and I never made that claim. What I'm saying is, with playersexuality, that part of their personality is MISSING until we, the players, define it. Instantly. With a single choice. Their sexuality is nothing more than a gameplay mechanic that makes their personality feel incomplete, not fully realized, and difficult for me to immerse myself in.
Didn't you just say you wanted equality? That only leaves straight inquisitors with two choices while everyone else gets four : / .
I think that's his/her point, and even though I understand the emotion and sentiment behind it, I also think it's a rather spiteful sentiment. I don't want options to be cut for anyone, so for me the better options would be that everyone's bisexual or we keep using playersexuality despite the controversy and the problematic nature of it.
Again, no matter how Bioware compromises on this issue, no one is ever going to be really happy. Compromise one way or another is going to make everyone at least a little unhappy. Even an even six-LI split might end up bringing in a lot of trouble, if people don't feel that those companions are truly equal.
I am just going to reiterate my preference here: I would prefer all bisexual LI's but barring that (for those that prefer a set sexuality), I hope that they do 2 gay and 2 bi LIs.
I concur, but I don't think playersexuality is the same as bisexuality. Playersexuality is when a character falls in love with (or bonks) you, the character. If your character is female and they are female, they are gay or bi. If your character is female and they are male, they are straight or bi. And so on. The advantage of playersexuality (or herosexuality, as it's called in my house) is that the relationship becomes about you and your LI. Not who they were, or what either of you have done in the past, but what is happening between you then and there. Sometimes, love or lust can hit you right out of the blue, whatever your gender. It can be requited or unrequited, returned or spurned, but it makes for great storytelling.
^Your warning points are showing, dear.
*repasted meme from before*
I get that you don't agree with what others are saying, but could you please express yourself with text and words, instead of spamming the thread with an image meme?
I absolutely want equality, however, based on other peoples posts here, equality isn't as important as the characters having a set sexuality. In that case, I would prefer 2 gays and 2 bi LI's. Do you not understand what I'm saying? I am just settlling based on those who oppose the all bi-sexual route's opinion. They would rather have set sexualities, to which I say fine. 2 gay and 2 bi are set sexualities.
You say you want equality, and then right after propose a solution that doesn't provide it. That much I don't get. I, personally, may not have a problem with your proposal, but I thought this whole discussion was ultimately about providing equal opportunities for everyone (or at least as many people as possible).
I think that's his/her point, and even though I understand the emotion and sentiment behind it, I also think it's a rather spiteful sentiment. I don't want options to be cut for anyone, so for me the better options would be that everyone's bisexual or we keep using playersexuality despite the controversy and the problematic nature of it.
Again, no matter how Bioware compromises on this issue, no one is ever going to be really happy. Compromise one way or another is going to make everyone at least a little unhappy. Even an even six-LI split might end up bringing in a lot of trouble, if people don't feel that those companions are truly equal.
I agree with all of your statements completely except for that last line. I don't see how people (well, rational people anyway) could complain about the 2/2/2 LI split, although I'm sure that some people will still find a way.
Couldn't this whole thing be solved by making them all bisexual. That's a set sexuality, so they are not "playersexual"? As long as they are developed and scripted as bisexual, this would alleviate both sides: characters would have pre-set sexualities without "being cheapened" by being playersexual and everyone would get multiple romance options.
You say you want equality, and then right after propose a solution that doesn't provide it. That much I don't get. I, personally, may not have a problem with your proposal, but I thought this whole discussion was ultimately about providing equal opportunities for everyone (or at least as many people as possible).
Their entire point was to demonstrate that by taking the approach from DA: O, some people would get short changed. They just switched it from 2 options for straight people to two options for gay people. The point was to show that the original approach wasn't equitable to some players. They have stated numerous times that they do want equal opportunities for everyone, but since you keep arguing against their approach, they suggested one that was the opposite of the original design.
You say you want equality, and then right after propose a solution that doesn't provide it. That much I don't get. I, personally, may not have a problem with your proposal, but I thought this whole discussion was ultimately about providing equal opportunities for everyone (or at least as many people as possible).
But it would be fair in that case. Straight people would have the same opportunities for romance that gay people had in the first game; absolutely fair.
I concur, but I don't think playersexuality is the same as bisexuality. Playersexuality is when a character falls in love with (or bonks) you, the character. If your character is female and they are female, they are gay or bi. If your character is female and they are male, they are straight or bi. And so on. The advantage of playersexuality (or herosexuality, as it's called in my house) is that the relationship becomes about you and your LI. Not who they were, or what either of you have done in the past, but what is happening between you then and there. Sometimes, love or lust can hit you right out of the blue, whatever your gender. it can be requited or unrequited, returned or spurned, but it makes for great storytelling.
There is a much wider spectrum of personality to keep in mind. (Not trying to go after you personally, you just brought up a good point). I mean, when we really break it down to the three points of straight/bi/gay we are missing a lot of people. And while I don't really want the DA romances to be lessons in educating the player on the lesser known letters of the LGBT spectrum, it should be noted that the way we are discussing this does erase a lot of ID's and additionally, they are identities that could very well apply to certain characters. The identity demisexual comes to mind.
And ultimately, the part I bolded is why this all feels so moot to me. Players are already told we are the only ones who can save the world, the only ones who can stop the big bad, the only ones who possibly could have found that random bottle of wine you lost in Darktown, so why is it so ridiculous that we are also the lucky special person who maybe happens to be outside of a characters normal gender preferences who a character really cares for? This isn't a degradation to the character, although I would prefer it to be ever so briefly acknowledged in that case.
I agree with all of your statements completely except for that last line. I don't see how people (well, rational people anyway) could complain about the 2/2/2 LI split, although I'm sure that some people will still find a way.
I'd be fine with a 1/1/1/1 LI split. You either romance the character that shares your sexuality, or you don't. It maximizes equality, and lessens the work load. It's efficient.
You say you want equality, and then right after propose a solution that doesn't provide it. That much I don't get. I, personally, may not have a problem with your proposal, but I thought this whole discussion was ultimately about providing equal opportunities for everyone (or at least as many people as possible).
Well, the point is really to give feedback and possibly find some solutions to the general issue of how the distribution of romances is handled in DA games, but you are right, a 2 gay, 2 bi split is not in any way equal.
Would it bother me? Well, kinda, because as a straight female I have historically had few enough (read: hardly any) options even in Bioware games if I want to play a game that actually has romance. Generally it's straight males who get to have all the warm fuzzy lovey-dovey scenes.
I wouldn't condone giving extra options to straight people at the expense of gay or bisexual people, so I would like to imagine the same basic courtesy could be extended to me, and yes, to the straight male gamers who have traditionally gotten a bigger piece of the pie. Otherwise, it fosters the continuation of hostilities on all sides that are honestly unnecessary. It isn't that I don't understand the sentiment, I just don't condone it. I don't suggest that the next Bioware game have romance options skewed toward straight female players, solely because I didn't like what happened with ME3. Instead, I try to propose more egalitarian solutions. Which of course will make no one truly happy, but at least we can all be less unhappy than we'd feel if we were totally left out.
I think that's his/her point, and even though I understand the emotion and sentiment behind it, I also think it's a rather spiteful sentiment. I don't want options to be cut for anyone, so for me the better options would be that everyone's bisexual or we keep using playersexuality despite the controversy and the problematic nature of it.
Again, no matter how Bioware compromises on this issue, no one is ever going to be really happy. Compromise one way or another is going to make everyone at least a little unhappy. Even an even six-LI split might end up bringing in a lot of trouble, if people don't feel that those companions are truly equal.
I was really just trying to make some people feel how others might have felt it the first game, I wasn't serious, just trying to encourage some empathatic thinking. I also don't wan't options to be restricted to anyone.
I would actually like to see Bioware mixing it up and keep us guessing rather than bending over for fans and try to make everyone happy(which is not going to happen anyway). If that means we'll see more gay romances than straight in a few games, and vice versa, so be it. This will also make people look forward to the next game and stay excited for how the characters are going to be written every new game.
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