1875 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

I don't think the quality of the romances would necessarily be lower, or that they would be more generic, but otherwise I agree. We have yet to have a single homosexual main character in DA yet, and with four bisexual LI's being a mandate I don't see it happening soon. It may be good for choices (and I do think choices come first in a RPG), but it is not good for representing all orientations. 

 

Bioware are good at being inclusive, and I respect them, but Dragon Age does seem to only be including heterosexual and bisexual people for the most part so far. 

 

"Playersexuality" really solves nothing and only makes it worse. How can I use a character as an example of a strong, well written homosexual character if they are also attracted to the opposite gender in half of my playthroughs?

I decided "Brushyourteeth" was right and the like button wasn't strong enough.  

[Mockingword]

It cares for the people who likes it

Ugh.

 

Ever notice how 'strong' and 'well written' are descriptors that people typically reserve for characters they already like?

[WildOrchid]

Still think it'd be better to have the LI's bi and no gender-specific content if we can't have sexualities represented concretely.

 

Oh man, if this happens, i can see many people screaming even more than before. Hell, some of them already think playersexuality is bisexuality.

I'd like the 2/2/2 ratio as well if playersexuality is out of question. As long as i get fair romances too. I've been traumatized enough by Mass Effect as it is.

 

 

 

*I only hope i can romance this fine warrior lady named Cassandra, with my ladyInquisitor.

[brushyourteeth]

That's not what they're doing, though. If they wrote everyone so that they would always bring up some attraction to other people so they'd let you know that they were bisexual or whatever, that would seem more artificial to me. And this didn't really happen in DAO except with Zevran; Morrigan certainly never spoke about attractive men other than the Warden, and I don't recall Alistair or Leliana doing much in that regard either; you could see Morrigan as basically asexual if other women's sexual energy made you nervous or something, if you chose to. DA2 is no different in this regard than DAO, except for everyone being bisexual/pansexual.

 

Yeah, Xilizhra, you really just honestly have no understanding of where I'm coming from here.

 

And that's okay.

 

I'm glad the game was acceptable to you. I found the playersexuality mechanic to be substandard and offensive, but it's just a game, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, Xilizhra, you really just honestly have no understanding of where I'm coming from here.

 

And that's okay.

 

I'm glad the game was acceptable to you. I found the playersexuality mechanic to be substandard and offensive, but it's just a game, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Your condescension does you no credit. Also, speaking as a member of the homosexual community, I'm kind of annoyed that you think you know what's best for us, given that the support from our side that I've seen has been overwhelmingly in favor of romance equality.

 

If we get enough resources for a 1:1:1 ratio of homobihetero, great! Fantastic, it should work splendidly. Otherwise? Let us stick with this.

Also, as I've said approximately a zillion times, I think it works better when everyone is bisexual as opposed to explicitly playersexual.

[AresKeith]

Ugh.

Ever notice how 'strong' and 'well written' are descriptors that people typically reserve for characters they already like?

Doesn't really change what I said since it's also used for characters they end up liking

[daveliam]

Also, speaking as a member of the homosexual community, I'm kind of annoyed that you think you know what's best for us, given that the support from our side that I've seen has been overwhelmingly in favor of romance equality.

 

If we get enough resources for a 1:1:1 ratio of homobihetero, great! Fantastic, it should work splendidly. Otherwise? Let us stick with this.

Also, as I've said approximately a zillion times, I think it works better when everyone is bisexual as opposed to explicitly playersexual.

100% in support of the message in this post.

[brushyourteeth]

Your condescension does you no credit. Also, speaking as a member of the homosexual community, I'm kind of annoyed that you think you know what's best for us, given that the support from our side that I've seen has been overwhelmingly in favor of romance equality.

 

If we get enough resources for a 1:1:1 ratio of homobihetero, great! Fantastic, it should work splendidly. Otherwise? Let us stick with this.

Also, as I've said approximately a zillion times, I think it works better when everyone is bisexual as opposed to explicitly playersexual.

 

It's true that I'm not gay, but it's incredibly unkind and unfair of you to imply that I don't genuinely care for what's best for the homosexual community for that reason. You know so little about my life and can't possibly imagine the reasons I have to hope for every kind of equality for LGBT folk. There's very little difference between us, after all, and my reasons for hating the player-sexual romance mechanic are that it is, in fact, biased against gay characters. I'm actually arguing in favor of the same thing you are -- a 1:1:1 ratio if we can have it, and bisexuality if not. 

 

But players being able to pretend that their non-preferred sexuality doesn't even exist? No.

[LPPrince]

Take from this exchange what you will-

 

 

This is purely speculation, but I would suspect that there are only going to be 4 LI's in DA: I.  I'm basing this off of a statement that I remember (and of course that I don't have the source for.....) where one of the devs said that they weren't expanding the resources for romances.  So since DA has always had 4 LI's, I'm assuming that DA: I will too.

 

Since Gaider has stated numerous times that, while he'd prefer to have a variety of sexual orientations among the LI's, he would always choose to have equal distribution of LI's for PCs of every orientation versus multiple choices for some PCs and no choice for others (such as the terribly unequal DA: O dynamic).  So based on this, I'm also going to assume that this means that the LIs will all be bisexual again.

 

If I had to choose from what we know so far (which is really limited), I would suspect that LIs will be Vivienne and "Sera" (i.e. blonde elf lady) for the ladies.  I think "Sera" would fill the playful LI role, plus she's a rogue and we've always had a rogue female LI.  I go back and forth on Cass versus Vivienne and I lean to Vivienne because I could easily see Cass playing the Aveline role in being a serious goal oriented companion who isn't interested in romance with their friend.  Vivienne would offer a nice variety as she represents a culture (flamboyant Orlais) that we know little about so far.  Although the fact that Gaider is writing multiple romances throws a wrench in this plan.  It could just as easily be "Sera" and Cass.

 

For the guys, I would suspect Bald Elf Guy ("Baldy") as one since they always have an elf guy romance and he's being written by Gaider (right?).  The other one is too hard to tell.  I suspect that Varric will not be, to continue his role as the "bro" and, although I hope I'm wrong, I don't seem them including Bearded Grey Warden, since he goes against the "boy next door" type that Bioware often uses for the male LI's.  He's older, bearded, and muscley.  While that sounds awesome to me (and several others, based on past coments), I think he's out.  That means that it would be one of the remaining unconfirmed guys.  Of course, my vote is Cullen, if he is in since he fits the stereotype much more closely, but that's to be seen, I guess.

 

 

^two Devs liked this.

Semi-confirmed.

 

 

Mary and Sheryl like it when someone is so wrong they can cackle.

 

Something to get people thinking. hahaha

[AresKeith]

Your condescension does you no credit. Also, speaking as a member of the homosexual community, I'm kind of annoyed that you think you know what's best for us, given that the support from our side that I've seen has been overwhelmingly in favor of romance equality.

If we get enough resources for a 1:1:1 ratio of homobihetero, great! Fantastic, it should work splendidly. Otherwise? Let us stick with this.
Also, as I've said approximately a zillion times, I think it works better when everyone is bisexual as opposed to explicitly playersexual.

First off, she isn't being condescending or speaking as she knows what's best. All she did was speak her own personal opinion regarding this

I really don't understand why you feel the need to do that in every debate you have

[GreyLycanTrope]

Your condescension does you no credit. Also, speaking as a member of the homosexual community, I'm kind of annoyed that you think you know what's best for us, given that the support from our side that I've seen has been overwhelmingly in favor of romance equality.

 

If we get enough resources for a 1:1:1 ratio of homobihetero, great! Fantastic, it should work splendidly. Otherwise? Let us stick with this.

Also, as I've said approximately a zillion times, I think it works better when everyone is bisexual as opposed to explicitly playersexual.

I don't recall anyone mentioning outright removal of alternate orientations. No one's attempting to condesend, some of us are just saying there might be a better approach.

[Mockingword]

Doesn't really change what I said since it's also used for characters they end up liking

That's exactly the same thing. None of the snobs on this forum would ever admit to liking a character that was not 'well written'.

 

It's just a meaningless catch-all word.

[Xilizhra]

It's true that I'm not gay, but it's incredibly unkind and unfair of you to imply that I don't genuinely care for what's best for the homosexual community for that reason. You know so little about my life and can't possibly imagine the reasons I have to hope for every kind of equality for LGBT folk. There's very little difference between us, after all, and my reasons for hating the player-sexual romance mechanic are that it is, in fact, biased against gay characters. I'm actually arguing in favor of the same thing you are -- a 1:1:1 ratio if we can have it, and bisexuality if not. 

 

But players being able to pretend that their non-preferred sexuality doesn't even exist? No.

Let me try to explain. I can see that your intentions are good, but you're thinking of this issue from the perspective of a socially concerned straight person instead of a gay person. The notion of a few homophobic morons deliberately misinterpreting the character design to have their anti-gay fantasy has not been on the minds of anyone in the gay community that I know, and was certainly not present when DA2 came out. The overwhelming reaction, instead, was "HOLY **** WE ACTUALLY GET TO CHOOSE OUR ROMANCE OPTIONS NOW." Because that's what had been missing from our game experience up until now. Not deliberately defined characters with carefully set sexualities; hell, those had been in many, many other games beforehand, but almost always they were straight. And the mere fact that the universe is opening up now to allow for more choices--especially when they were not, like in DAO, just adventurous promiscuous (or formerly so) rogues--far outweighs anything that some other idiot somewhere might interpret. He's not going to have his mind changed by Dragon Age anyway. And believe me, there are so many other things that I find so much worse that you can do already in DA, like genocide, that ****** me off quite a bit when people brag about them, but there's nothing I can do about that.

 

If you want to ensure that no one can inflict socially unjust headcanon on their DA universes, let's start out by demanding that everyone side with those who are brutally downtrodden in-universe who frequently echo similar groups IRL, whom many players gleefully kick around.

[AresKeith]

That's exactly the same thing. None of the snobs on this forum would ever admit to liking a character that was not 'well written'.

It's just a meaningless catch-all word.

That maybe true, but calling people snobs and acting aggressive isn't helping

People have different tastes in characters but it doesn't mean they can't call them strong or well.written

[brushyourteeth]

Let me try to explain. I can see that your intentions are good, but you're thinking of this issue from the perspective of a socially concerned straight person instead of a gay person. The notion of a few homophobic morons deliberately misinterpreting the character design to have their anti-gay fantasy has not been on the minds of anyone in the gay community that I know, and was certainly not present when DA2 came out. The overwhelming reaction, instead, was "HOLY **** WE ACTUALLY GET TO CHOOSE OUR ROMANCE OPTIONS NOW." Because that's what had been missing from our game experience up until now. Not deliberately defined characters with carefully set sexualities; hell, those had been in many, many other games beforehand, but almost always they were straight. And the mere fact that the universe is opening up now to allow for more choices--especially when they were not, like in DAO, just adventurous promiscuous (or formerly so) rogues--far outweighs anything that some other idiot somewhere might interpret. He's not going to have his mind changed by Dragon Age anyway. And believe me, there are so many other things that I find so much worse that you can do already in DA, like genocide, that ****** me off quite a bit when people brag about them, but there's nothing I can do about that.

 

If you want to ensure that no one can inflict socially unjust headcanon on their DA universes, let's start out by demanding that everyone side with those who are brutally downtrodden in-universe who frequently echo similar groups IRL, whom many players gleefully kick around.

 

So the difference lies in the fact that I want to have gay characters in DA.  You want more opportunities to express homosexuality through the romances in DA.

 

I get that. I can respect it. I'll still always believe bisexuality is preferable to a malleable one where characters' sexualities are headcanoned by the whims of each player's personal bias, but I see where that's coming from.

[Xilizhra]

So the difference lies in the fact that I want to have gay characters in DA.  You want more opportunities to express homosexuality through the romances in DA.

 

I get that. I can respect it. I'll still always believe bisexuality is preferable to a malleable one where characters' sexualities are headcanoned by the whims of each player's personal bias, but I see where that's coming from.

Again, regarding bisexuality, I AGREE WITH YOU.

 

Also, there's nothing at all preventing the makers from just creating good gay NPCs who don't get screwed over by the plot, even if you can't romance them.

[brushyourteeth]

I'd also like to say that I realize there are facets to these issues that I don't understand fully. Consider this an open invitation to anyone, really, that they can feel free to friend request me and take it to PM's if they'd like to exchange a dialogue -- I promise to listen if you promise to be kind. : )

[brushyourteeth]

Again, regarding bisexuality, I AGREE WITH YOU.

 

Also, there's nothing at all preventing the makers from just creating good gay NPCs who don't get screwed over by the plot, even if you can't romance them.

 

I would love this!!

[Xilizhra]

I would love this!!

As would I. If nothing else, it'd winnow out the people like you from the people against bisexuality who just don't want anything gay around.

[AresKeith]

Straight Person: I care so much about the gays and their plight and it's so super-duper important to me that they get treated fairly.

Gay Person: Well since you say that, some of the things you're saying about gay people are problematic and, speaking as a gay person, they bother me.

Straight Person: Gay Person, that is very unkind of you to say. I'm not going to respect or listen to your opinion because you did not cradle my delicate feelings gently, like a baby bird.

See now that isn't even what she was doing, you seem to be the only one making a real issue over nothing

I don't see a reason to continue a discussion with you

[GreyLycanTrope]

Forum does have an ignore feature now.

[Ianamus]

 

Also, there's nothing at all preventing the makers from just creating good gay NPCs who don't get screwed over by the plot, even if you can't romance them.

 

Which does make me wonder why it still hasn't happened. I think that the LI's are at least partially to blame, since all of the "same gender attraction" content, for lack of a better phrase, seems to get diverted to the them by default.

[LPPrince]

So the difference lies in the fact that I want to have gay characters in DA.  You want more opportunities to express homosexuality through the romances in DA.

 

I get that. I can respect it. I'll still always believe bisexuality is preferable to a malleable one where characters' sexualities are headcanoned by the whims of each player's personal bias, but I see where that's coming from.

 

Again, regarding bisexuality, I AGREE WITH YOU.

 

Also, there's nothing at all preventing the makers from just creating good gay NPCs who don't get screwed over by the plot, even if you can't romance them.

 

Y'all should agree to agree.

[Ferretinabun]

Because I like walking into a lions' den (which is totally different from trolling - honest!)...

 

Why do you guys think established bisexuality (a la Isabela and Leliana) is preferable to 'playersexuality' (a la Fenris and Merrill) exactly?

 

Just curious...

[Xilizhra]

Which does make me wonder why it still hasn't happened. I think that the LI's are at least partially to blame, since all of the "same gender attraction" content, for lack of a better phrase, seems to get diverted to the them by default.

Hardly. That's just the writers being lazily heteronormative.