1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

No I'm saying the characters can always use more depth, it's an issue of immersion for me. I want to know as much about my companions as possible favorite foods and who I could help them flirt with included. Plus if we're really being inclusive of various groups of people than let's actually be inclusive

 

Assumptions man, please don't be Mockingword.

Hey guy.

 

If your problem is legitimately that the characters don't talk about their attraction to both genders, then they could just do that.

 

It doesn't require the current balance to change at all.

[Mr.House]

Dragon Age is a fantasy game - fantasy story - it has its roots in medieval Romances. 

 

http://en.wikipedia....ivalric_romance

 

Many medieval romances recount the marvellous adventures of a chivalrous, heroic knight, often of super-human ability, who, abiding chivalry's strict codes of honor and demeanor, goes on a quest, and fights and defeats monsters and giants, thereby winning favor with a lady.^[41] The Matter of France, most popular early, did not lend itself to the subject of courtly love, but rather dealt with heroic adventure: in The Song of Roland, Roland, though betrothed to Oliver's sister, does not think of her during the course of events.^[42] The themes of love were, however, soon appear, particularly in the Matter of Britain, leading to even the French regarding King Arthur's court as the exemplar of true and noble love, so much so that even the earliest writers about courtly love would claim it had reached its true excellence there, and love was not what it was in King Arthur's day.^[43] A perennial theme was the rescue of a lady from the imperiling monster, a theme that would remain throughout the romances of the medieval era.

 

[snip][end]

 

I think the only thing Bioware does differently, along with others who create modern fantasy tales, is allowing the knight of any gender to win the heart of a lad/lady of any gender. But I don't get why people say romance is not a typical part of fantasy tales; they don't know the origins of the genre!

Go here if you think that is still how it works now.

[Mockingword]

GG, you missed my point. Romances have nothing to do with why video games are classified as video games. Take them out, and nothing would change. Dialogue? Take that out too. Nothing would change. I'd get into it more but that's not the point of this topic. Again though, it's not that serious.

It's a good thing, then, that this thread isn't some philosophical circlejerk about "what even is a video game anyway?".

[spirosz]

circlejerk 

 

I see what you did there.  

 

[mopotter]

In my own personal life experience, I've had a group of teenage boys shoot me in the back from a car with paintballs at close range while I was standing at a bus stop with my girlfriend.  I've experienced having a man follow me and a lesbian friend down a street, late at night, threatening us with corrective rape because we had short hair and looked "butch."  I've had a girlfriend disavow our relationship and claim that I was obsessed with her, because she was afraid of being outed.  And those are just the things I'm willing to talk about on a mostly anonymous public forum.

 

So no, I don't feel like I have a "right" to sexual intercourse with any given bunch of polygons.  I am well aware that there are far more important issues when it comes to the LGBT community.  But I do feel that, as a gamer, I have the right to express my desire for more inclusion of LGBT content in games, whether the devs listen to me or not.  And I feel that I have the right to want the same level of escape and wish fulfillment that most straight (and mostly male) gamers take for granted.

 

This thread is in the suggestions forum.  Nobody, as far as I know, is demanding anything.  But as long as people are allowed to make suggestions, and talk about what they'd want in Bioware games, I'm going to chime in, and I really don't care if someone thinks I'm a pathetic, basement dwelling virgin demanding the perfect video game waifu.  I know who I am and what I've been through, and I also know that, as a consumer, it doesn't hurt to ask for what you want out of a product.  I may not get it, at least this time around, but if there's even a slim chance of influencing development of future games, then I'll keep posting.

 I post my ideas/hopes/interest for the same reason, it's a suggestion forum, and agree, it doesn't hurt to ask for what you want out of a product.  If we never ask we will never get it. 

 

I'm a 60+ who likes to re-play the games over and over, trying new options, well actually being forced to try new options if I want to see the dialogue and story from that viewpoint, which is why I would like to have variety - a gay, lesbian, straight m/f and two extra. I liked having the option of killing Zev and would love to have that option with this new group, especially if it was a mage and I a templer or the other way around.  

 

 I'll take what they give us, even if it's just 4 of the I want to bed you no matter what sex you are, but sadly I'll just play them all straight because without sexual preference in the characters I just play what I know, more or less. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Yeah, and?  Sten only told me about his sword if I got his "friendship" high enough.  By your logic, that means that he never actually lost his sword unless you are his friend.

 

Anders mentions it in one of his dialogue trees.  If you chose not to explore that dialogue tree, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist anymore.

See if Anders would only tell me that stuff if we were good enough friends that'd be fine. I shouldn't need to start dating a person to get them to talk about themselves a little, outside the whole oppressed mage tangents I mean.

 

Okay, but how does this statement connect with the fact that you've stated that because all of the LI's are bisexual, they are "the same"?  I'm trying to understand you.  I really am, but you aren't making it easy for me.

I didn't say that I said Isabella was bisexual, the rest have the orientation of a chameleon.

 

 

Well the gifs are out in force, think I'm done here.

[acicm2]

romances in games do nothing but derail the main focus of the game. it would be better if they just leave them out completely.

[mopotter]

Sky was not playersexual.  He was bisexual.  In fact, they even address that his relationship with the PC was allowing him to explore something that he never did before.  If the character was written that a relationship would the male character would allow him to explore his sexuality, then it would make no sense for him to bring that up to a female PC.  He was married and had a child before.  If he gets into a relationship with a woman, then the trigger for him to start to explore his other attractions wouldn't have ever happened.  It's a nuanced different, but I think it's clear that he was intended as "bicurious" at least.  That doesn't feel playersexual to me.

 

Sky was not playersexual.  He was bisexual.  In fact, they even address that his relationship with the PC was allowing him to explore something that he never did before.  If the character was written that a relationship would the male character would allow him to explore his sexuality, then it would make no sense for him to bring that up to a female PC.  He was married and had a child before.  If he gets into a relationship with a woman, then the trigger for him to start to explore his other attractions wouldn't have ever happened.  It's a nuanced different, but I think it's clear that he was intended as "bicurious" at least.  That doesn't feel playersexual to me.

It's been a few years since I've played the s/s JE so I'll take your word for it.  But would still have liked a separate gay romance.  

[daveliam]

See if Anders would only tell me that stuff if we were good enough friends that'd be fine. I shouldn't need to start dating a person to get them to talk about themselves a little, outside the whole oppressed mage tangents I mean.

Yeah, but that's not how it plays out.  You might not like how you have to get the information, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss it. 

 

 

I didn't say that I said Isabella was bisexual, the rest have the orientation of a chameleon.

 

You did say that, though, multiple times. Such as this:

For some of the characters it doesn't, what cheapens the experience, at least to me, is making everyone the same. Differences should be celebrated in my humble opinion, and to me that's best expressed by presenting a wider diversity.

And this:

 

Because from a romance option perspective they are.

 

Also, one more time.  Anders is confirmed as bisexual through multiple pieces of in game content and statements from the writers.  So you're isolation of Isabela is incorrect.   Fenris and Merrill, well, that's a different story, I guess.

[CybAnt1]

GG, you missed my point. Romances have nothing to do with why video games are classified as video games. (1) Take them out, and nothing would change. Dialogue? Take that out too. Nothing would change. I'd get into it more but that's not the point of this topic. Again though, it's not that serious.

 

(1) Huh? I sorta get your point. Most video games don't have them. They wouldn't have made sense to do in a game until recently, since gaming developers have only recently become good at having computers simulate human relationships. Some games now do. The Sims has romance. Is the Sims not a video game?

 

(2) You know, I've seen all kinds of interesting discussions here and elsewhere about how RPGs should handle dialogue, and it is true that the dungeon crawlers never really had it until it really started being done in the 90s, but you may be the first person I've heard say CRPGs (or vRPGs) would not change at all if they had no dialogue at all. 

 

I do agree the very first ones, like the Ultimas and Wizardrys didn't have it, but that was mostly for technical reasons. But taking it out of today's games, I think, would be strange, as I know of nothing calling itself a CRPG today that doesn't have it. 

[Mr.House]

romances in games do nothing but derail the main focus of the game. it would be better if they just leave them out completely

Ok no, don't treat every game that has romances with the same stick just because the Bioware fanbase has a fetish.

[mopotter]

How were Anders, Fenris, Isabela, and Merrrill the same?  Seriously, how did them all being bisexual make them the same outside of the fact that they were all bisexual?  I'm not sure I'm following your line of reasoning.

My biggest problem with Anders and Fenris and Merrill to a lesser degree, was the rivalry romance option where even though they hated everything my character stood for they would switch sides at the end and join me for the fight.  Didn't have anything to do with their sexual preferences.  

[syllogi]

 I post my ideas/hopes/interest for the same reason, it's a suggestion forum, and agree, it doesn't hurt to ask for what you want out of a product.  If we never ask we will never get it. 

 

I'm a 60+ who likes to re-play the games over and over, trying new options, well actually being forced to try new options if I want to see the dialogue and story from that viewpoint, which is why I would like to have variety - a gay, lesbian, straight m/f and two extra. I liked having the option of killing Zev and would love to have that option with this new group, especially if it was a mage and I a templer or the other way around.  

 

 I'll take what they give us, even if it's just 4 of the I want to bed you no matter what sex you are, but sadly I'll just play them all straight because without sexual preference in the characters I just play what I know, more or less. 

 

I understand that different people like to play different ways -- I only play female characters, and I'll play heterosexual or female romances available to female player characters, but if a love interest isn't my type, like Merrill, or if I don't feel it fits in my RP style, like pursuing any romance option in ME2, I'll abstain.  I understand that I'm picky, and I don't feel like I lose out by not playing male characters, or playing out romances when it doesn't feel right...that's just me.

 

Even if I don't get my own selfish wishes for romance options, I just want as much choice available to players as possible, because I know how it feels to be left out, and the times that I've been included mean something to me.  

[CybAnt1]

romances in games do nothing but derail the main focus of the game. it would be better if they just leave them out completely.

 

I would say that games are interactive stories. Stories often deal with relationships. Romantic relationships are an important kind human beings engage in. Thus, why NOT include them (at least if the emphasis of your games is on relationships)? 

 

I would say the point of a game is overcoming challenges. That can be getting your soul back (see BG2), defeating The Big Bad, preventing war, or winning the heart of the girl - or guy. 

[CybAnt1]

Please. Don't put words in mouth. I was talking about video games in general, not RPGs.

 

Uh huh, and just get why for some people, CRPGs are one of their favorite kinds of games, because unlike Space Invaders, Doom, or Battlefield, they offer (simulation of) human interaction and human relationships, as well as (simulation of) combat. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Yeah, but that's not how it plays out.  You might not like how you have to get the information, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss it. 

 

 

You did say that, though, multiple times. Such as this:

And this:

 

Also, one more time.  Anders is confirmed as bisexual through multiple pieces of in game content and statements from the writers.  So you're isolation of Isabela is incorrect.   Fenris and Merrill, well, that's a different story, I guess.

I actually can if I don't want to metagame.

 

I elaborated what I meant in the portion of the quote you cut off and the subsequent posts since, so please don't put words in my mouth over something we've already established as an initial miscommunication.

 

Multiple pieces of information suggest he's bi in a specific version of a playthrough and no where else in the game. That is just like Merrill and Fenris.

[Mr.House]

Uh huh, and just get why for some people, CRPGs are one of their favorite kinds of games, because unlike Space Invaders, Doom, or Battlefield, they offer (simulation of) human interaction and human relationships, as well as (simulation of) combat. 

Putting Battlefield in the same sentence with Doom is not cool dude.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Hey guy.

 

If your problem is legitimately that the characters don't talk about their attraction to both genders, then they could just do that.

 

It doesn't require the current balance to change at all.

Yes but I also said I wanted more diversity as well.

[daveliam]

I actually can if I don't want to metagame.

 

I elaborated what I meant the in portion of the quote you cut off and the subsequent posts since, so please don't put words in my mouth over something we've already established as an initial miscommunication.

 

Multiple pieces of information suggest he's bi in a specific version of a playthrough and no where else in the game. That is just like Merrill and Fenris.

 

You can't have it both ways.  If you don't want to metagame, then you can't use the fact that they are LI's in other playthroughs as your evidence.  Therefore, if you only played as a female, then Anders and Fenris are straight, Isabela is bisexual, and Merrill is gay.  They're not playersexual, so your argument is moot.

 

If you do want to include the fact that if you play as a male, their sexuality appears different, then you also have to include that data to support that Anders is bisexual, so your argument about him is also moot.  You can't double dip and try to selectively choose what evidence you want to use. 

[Mockingword]

romances in games do nothing but derail the main focus of the game. it would be better if they just leave them out completely.

Ridiculous.

 

Dating Sims are games, and romance is the main focus of those. You can't take it out or there is no game.

 

Your statement only makes even the slightest lick of sense if we assume the gameplay of all games revolves entirely around killing people, which is demonstrably false.

 

All you're really saying is that the romances aren't an important gameplay aspect to you. But people find a wide variety of things to relate to and derive entertainment from in video games. Any one item can be thrown out and you could see obviously that that has happened in other games, if you spent even two seconds looking into the vast array of games that exist.

 

What most people I know that play Dragon Age say they love about it is 'rich character development', and romance is definitely a part of that. It's easy to see how it could be one of the most important elements, if you're not taking an extremely self-centered stance.

 

And any good business realizes that a well rounded approach is the best way to net a wide range of customers and hedge their bets, overall. They don't want to to narrow their field. That would be dumb.

 

Romance is the only reason I ever picked up a Bioware game in the first place. If all I wanted to do was kill dragons, I would've stuck with one of the dozens of games I already own that have that feature. I give my money to Bioware because they offer me something more. And yes, that something just happens to be the freedom to kiss other boys, and being a badass while doing it.

[Mockingword]

Yes but I also said I wanted more diversity as well.

Sexual diversity can be present among the non-romanceable characters, of which there will be dozens, if not over a hundred.