1875 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Sexuality restriction doesn't make sense if it's the single restriction.

 

I'm definitely behind that. I've always argued for more restrictions, I just think sexuality should be one of them, rather than not.

 

Rivalmances=lol

[CybAnt1]

It does for people who equate playersexuality and sexual orientation, even though as I've explained several times, sexual preference only begins with sexual orientation but usually contains other components. IRL, straight people are not attracted to every opposite sex person, are they? 

 

We had a very long thread running about how players didn't like (physically) a bald character. What if "alopecic"/bald people in the game were more likely to be turned down? I mean, it is almost a parallel taboo subject, but older men do seem to prefer younger women, too. What if characters were turned down because of age? 

 

Yes, as we've seen, some people will not "share their love"  with bald folk and some others will, so that seems ... "realistic" ... but that is not a "realistic" limit anybody is asking for. 

 

P.S. I've also said I think the DA2 rivalmances didn't make much sense. 

[LPPrince]

We had a very long thread running about how players didn't like (physically) a bald character.

 

This is why its easier to find me in the Off Topic section.

[Vapaa]

I'm definitely behind that. I've always argued for more restrictions, I just think sexuality should be one of them, rather than not.

 

 

Restrictions and equal options doesn't work well together

Romance in DA are purely optional extras and should stay that way, that's why I advocate for the "all bi" route.

[razmatazz]

Also, about all these arguments about how LIs can romance you regardless of how you look, right now I view that as a matter of technical limitation.  But if BW could account for our PCs' appearance, I really wonder how they would treat that, as well.

[jncicesp]

Romances and relationships with characters didnt have enough context for rivalmances. in game anyway, youd have to headcannon a lot of things in order to make it interesting.

In general romancing someone you hate but respect or whatever doesnt make much sense, they at least tried to do it well.

 

They should have more requirements to be able to playthrough a romance. I dont see how the gender side of playersexual is a bad  thing though. and if the only reason is gender specific content its just personally upsetting to me.

[LPPrince]

Also, about all these arguments about how LIs can romance you regardless of how you look, right now I view that as a matter of technical limitation.  But if BW could account for our PCs' appearance, I really wonder how they would treat that, as well.

 

I imagine video games will one day reach a level where that would be possible. Technically its possible now, just no one is crazy enough to integrate something like that because no matter how it was integrated, it wouldn't be worth the trouble it would cause.

[daveliam]

Very happy to come back nearly twelve hours later and see that, not only did the thread not get locked, but cooler heads have prevailed and the discussion is continuing in a way that real genuine discussion is happening.

 

I've never been prouder of the BSN!  Is there a single tear emotion?

[CybAnt1]

Restrictions and equal options doesn't work well together

 

 

That's the heart of this debate, and why both sides are right, and why it will never end.

 

As always, IMHO.

[razmatazz]

Very happy to come back nearly twelve hours later and see that, not only did the thread not get locked, but cooler heads have prevailed and the discussion is continuing in a way that real genuine discussion is happening.

 

I've never been prouder of the BSN!  Is there a single tear emotion?

 

Let's not jinx it, shall we .

[brushyourteeth]

THIS is exactly what I was hoping to see. This is a problem with interactions on the planet Earth, set in our reality with the associated contexts that sexual orientation has.


This is why I said "What *does* define their personality is the consequences of having a particular orientation."

Being gay, bisexual, or heterosexual does not make a person more timid, more aggressive, more promiscuous, or anything like that. What DOES affect someone's personality is how they are treated because of a particular sexual orientation, and that is an immensely important distinction.

This is people taking their assumptions about our actual reality, and transcribing them onto how they feel a fictional universe, with fictional norms, mores, and so forth, should behave in order to be "believable." Someone pointing out that 2/3s of the party members being romanceable is not "believable" means that they are taking their real life experiences and imposing them on the game.


You're describing the ridiculous and foolish notions that some unreasonably people have that they can somehow change your sexuality through brute force or whatever. But this is NOT the same thing as a "playersexual" relationship. Each playthrough is completely and utterly independent of all other playthroughs. The only way you can make a distinction that a character's sexuality is different is by taking two disjointed realities and comparing them, while making the assumption that they must be consistent with regards to sexual preferences. Ask yourself why this consistency must be maintained.

This is NOT the same as, for example, Alistair starting out as a clearly defined heterosexual, but because the player character is a man and asking for a gay relationship, that suddenly Alistair decides that he's going to get involved in a homosexual relationship.


Ask yourself why is it that sexual orientation defines one's personality? Is it truly because of the sexual orientation of the character, or is it because of the socialization of what we consider to be acceptable sexual orientations, and the various sociological pressures that affect our personality. Do you think that a gay person hides their sexuality in our reality because that's just a trait of being gay? Or is it a consequence put forth based on how our reality treats gay people? If it's a consequence of our reality, is it possible that the reality of Thedas is different? If not, why not?

 

But Allan, you don't think there's something very strange and at the very least rather uncomfortable about playing a male and finding that all the men are (as far as you know) attracted only to males, and then playing as a female and finding that those same men are (as far as you know) attracted only to females? And yet, you can play the game in such a way so that flirtation never happens between you and you can pretend there's no chance of anyone being the least bit gay whatsoever.

 

And my problem with it isn't that the characters don't go into long diatribes about their every personal sexual preference just so that the player can *know.*

 

My problem is that it's set up intentionally by the writers (as they've explained on multiple occasions) so that you can have your cake and pretend your other friends are whatever sexuality happens to be your favorite. 

 

It creates more opportunities for players to romance the characters they'd prefer to, sure, but in the process players are allowed to headcanon out any sexuality that they find distasteful. This seems rather the opposite of inclusion to me. I just think the system can be improved upon in this manner.

 

I see what you're saying about Thedas being different from Earth, but a lot of the hangups are written to be rather the same -- I wish the lore would be a little more helpful in this regard. We have the same inconsistency with feminism, where female soldiers are technically as common as males and yet we see them much more rarely and comments are made about staying at home rather than fighting.

 

Just room for improvement there.

 

My biggest question for the writing team would be this:    If the DA team isn't writing the characters intentionally to shield homophobic players from ever having to encounter a gay LI (or vice versa), why not simply make every romanceable companion bisexual rather than player-sexual? Giving companions a malleable sexuality seems only helpful insomuch as it protects Bioware from more complaints from players who do not want to have to experience any "gay" content. "I'll romance Merrill but only if I can headcanon that she's straight." This set up seems like the worst sort of compromise to me.

 

And thanks for responding to my original post. Allan.

[WildOrchid]

Maybe it's the new BSN look. It makes people friendly.

[LPPrince]

Maybe it's the new BSN look. It makes people friendly.

 

With all that white? Eh.

 

I like that this thread hasn't exploded tho.

[daveliam]

Why's it gotta be white.....?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I kid, I kid.
 

[razmatazz]

I see what you're saying about Thedas being different from Earth, but a lot of the hangups are written to be rather the same -- I wish the lore would be a little more helpful in this regard. We have the same inconsistency with feminism, where female soldiers are technically as common as males and yet we see them much more rarely and comments are made about staying at home rather than fighting.

 

Until the issue of sexual preference is more definitively fleshed out in the lore, I will continue to see the "Well Thedas isn't Earth" and "It's fantasy" rationales as little more than cop-outs, quite honestly.

 

With all that white? Eh.

 

I actually do hate how bright it is : / .

[KaiserShep]

I imagine video games will one day reach a level where that would be possible. Technically its possible now, just no one is crazy enough to integrate something like that because no matter how it was integrated, it wouldn't be worth the trouble it would cause.

Yeah, could you imagine the uproar people would have because a character you create that looks like you is rejected by every companion? I'd sure get a kick out of the fuss, but no doubt the developer that even dares to try this out would have hexes put on them from the fandom.

[milena87]

Maybe it's the new BSN look. It makes people friendly.

 

You may be on to something.

 

White background -> need to avoid damage to retinas -> often pauses -> time to cool down before posting again.

 

Hmm...

[fchopin]

Again, why ONLY sexuality ? if a straight character is say, Cassandra, why would a male bloodmage have more chances that a pro-chantry female ?
 
Sexuality restriction doesn't make sense if it's the single restriction.

Cassandra will have other restrictions but we will not know about them until we play the game.
For example she could be a mage with no experience in sword combat or the opposite.
Why would she have restrictions is easy, no person can be everything to everyone.
She is who she is and that is all there is to it.
If you don’t like her the way she is then do not do a romance with her.

[daveliam]

Yeah, I don't see the fact that people are viewing Thedas as possibly having different demographics on sexuality as a cop out at all.  We have evidence from the game of numerous bisexual people:  Zevran, Leliana, Marjolaine, Isabela, Anders, Céline, possibly Fenris, possibly Merrill.  And that's just off the top of my head and it's just major characters.  It seems to me that it's pretty obvious that there are more bisexuals (or at least more out bisexuals) in Thedas than there would be if this was set in, say, the U.S. in modern times. 

 

But this gets into a tricky spot because:  How are measuring "sexuality" in our society anyway?  If it's self-reported, then I call into question the validity of the data.  There are way too many hang-ups about sexuality in our society that cause people to report in one way, but act in another.  You'll see the 4-10% demographic thrown around, but I suspect that if we could read minds (or maybe travel into the future to a time where non-hetero sexuality isn't stigmatized as much), we'd see that number be much higher.

 

So:  1.). I think we can use the data that we see from the game and source materials to determine that non-hetero relationships are not uncommon and seem more prevalent than what is traditionally expected using "data" from our society; and 2.). Said data is suspect to begin with, so I don't think we should give much credence to it.

[LPPrince]

Yeah, could you imagine the uproar people would have because a character you create that looks like you is rejected by every companion? I'd sure get a kick out of the fuss, but no doubt the developer that even dares to try this out would have hexes put on them from the fandom.

 

I definitely wouldn't get a kick out of it, yikes. It would get baaad.

[brushyourteeth]

Yeah, I don't see the fact that people are viewing Thedas as possibly having different demographics on sexuality as a cop out at all.  We have evidence from the game of numerous bisexual people:  Zevran, Leliana, Marjolaine, Isabela, Anders, Céline, possibly Fenris, possibly Merrill.  And that's just off the top of my head and it's just major characters.  It seems to me that it's pretty obvious that there are more bisexuals (or at least more out bisexuals) in Thedas than there would be if this was set in, say, the U.S. in modern times. 

 

But this gets into a tricky spot because:  How are measuring "sexuality" in our society anyway?  If it's self-reported, then I call into question the validity of the data.  There are way too many hang-ups about sexuality in our society that cause people to report in one way, but act in another.  You'll see the 4-10% demographic thrown around, but I suspect that if we could read minds (or maybe travel into the future to a time where non-hetero sexuality isn't stigmatized as much), we'd see that number be much higher.

 

So:  1.). I think we can use the data that we see from the game and source materials to determine that non-hetero relationships are not uncommon and seem more prevalent than what is traditionally expected using "data" from our society; and 2.). Said data is suspect to begin with, so I don't think we should give much credence to it.

 

I don't think (at least I hope) most people that imply "Thedas is just different" is a copout -- Thedas IS different.

 

But saying "well it's just different" while painting it as rather the same (potentially, and frighteningly, possibly because the team doesn't want to deal with fan backlash about "too many gays") and offering no explanation.

 

I'd be fine with everyone in Thedas being bi, personally. That'd certainly be different from our world. But to have characters set so that they can appear homosexual in one playthrough and heterosexual in another playthrough, depending on what the player is most comfortable with? That's.... I just can't. :/

[AresKeith]

Why's it gotta be white.....?

Iknorite

[KaiserShep]

I definitely wouldn't get a kick out of it, yikes. It would get baaad.

Admittedly, it tickles my evilness a bit. But yeah, I'd rather that BioWare never ever ever do something like that.

[LPPrince]

Admittedly, it tickles my evilness a bit. But yeah, I'd rather that BioWare never ever ever do something like that.

 

I don't think they're that crazy.

[brushyourteeth]

Yeah, could you imagine the uproar people would have because a character you create that looks like you is rejected by every companion? I'd sure get a kick out of the fuss, but no doubt the developer that even dares to try this out would have hexes put on them from the fandom.

 

 

I don't think they're that crazy.

 

 

 

Those of us who are shaped like lady dwarves already have to deal with "Eeew, you're too unattractive to romance."  

 

 

(Off-topic, though)

 

still in support of either 2/2/2 or all-bi romances tbh.