1875 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

^This pic still hurts so much.

Also FYI, Kelly and Allers are not even romances.

[Mr.House]

^This pic still hurts so much.

Also FYI, Kelly and Allers are not even romances.

Even if you cut them, it still does not help, at all. All that means is lesbians have the same amount of options as a gay Shepard, but straight maleshep still has a small harem to choose from.

[Cainhurst Crow]

How they make the games is irrelevant.  It makes no sense to play them that way.

 

But why doesn't it make sense to play games that way? Stuff like that happened all the time in DAO and DA2. Stuff like my helmet appearing and disappearing due to it being toggled. Magical words floating on the screen to subtitle what characters were saying. Voiceless characters being understood by everyone. Surviving being mauled by a dragon.

 

All of that are products of the gameplay mechanics contrasting with established facts of both the story and the laws of physics itself. It's the epitome of segregation between entertaining gameplay and the telling of the story.

[WildOrchid]

Even if you cut them, it still does not help, at all. All that means is lesbians have the same amount of options as a gay Shepard, but straight maleshep still has a small harem to choose from.

 

Yeah, i'm not disagreeing with you at all.

People who say ME2/3 were "the best examples" make me roll my eyes. All the time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

"Stuff like my helmet appearing and disappearing due to it being toggled."

 

Hated that.

 

"Magical words floating on the screen to subtitle what characters were saying."

 

Not relevant.  The UI doesn't exist within the game world.

 

"Voiceless characters being understood by everyone."

 

They weren't necessarily voiceless.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

"Surviving being mauled by a dragon."

 

The physics of the setting are defined in part by the combat mechanics.  It's nonsensical to complain about the combat mechanics violating physics.

 

"It's the epitome of segregation between entertaining gameplay and the telling of the story."

 

The story is what we do in the world.  What we do in the world is constrained by the mechanics.  There cannot be a separation between those things, as they directly affect each other.

[fchopin]

The writers are the one making the restrictions, I advocate on no restrictions at all.

If you want to play the free for all card I can also play and demand that I want an orgy so all the companions must have an orgy if I decide as that is what I want. The writers have to do what I say as that is equality for each individual.

[Cainhurst Crow]

It's like talking to an ostrich.

[Gregolian]

 

They weren't necessarily voiceless.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Hazegurl]

I vote for orgy...wait....what are we talking about again?

[Mr.House]

If you want to play the free for all card I can also play and demand that I want an orgy so all the companions must have an orgy if I decide as that is what I want. The writers have to do what I say as that is equality for each individual.

Orgies for everyone!

[Han Shot First]

Ya ME3 did it so well!

 

 

 

I never said that ME3 was flawless. I said that ME3 handled it better than DA2. And it did.

[Mr.House]

I never said that ME3 was flawless. I said that ME3 handled it better than DA2. And it did.

Let's see.....

 

Straight females: 2(3 with dlc)

Straight Males: 2

gay: 2

Lesbian 2:

bisexual: 4(3 in DAO)

 

Yup you're right, DA2 did it poorly compared to ME3.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

I never said that ME3 was flawless. I said that ME3 handled it better than DA2. And it did.

ME3 handled it better if you're playing a straight guy and don't want anyone else to have equal options.

At least DA2 gave everyone equal choices.

[mars_central]

Liara was my only romance in ME3, I couldn't play it again after that ending and her and femShep were incredibly well done (although iirc it did seem that we reaffirmed our romance at the beginning of the game and she basically ignores that until late into the game). I wouldn't advocate the mechanics of ME's romances over DA2's though and I would say that the playersexual approach is probably the best way to insure that level of quality for as many players as possible.

 

But since the whole objection to playersexuality is based on the meta argument of character consistency through multiple playthroughs, let's can call shenanigans on the Asari too. After all, Bioware could have designed them with two genders, their monogenderedness isn't an important plot point. Even as it is, Liara could prefer males to females or vice versa, other Asari could have a gender preference. Maybe they do, but then either Liara doesn't or she's playersexual.

[razmatazz]

Have the devs really confirmed Anders' bisexuality?  I'd really like to see a direct quote.  Or even a dev come in here and say so.  Otherwise:

 

What I actually would've like to see are suggestions that Anders is in fact bisexual in a single playthrough.  It doesn't even require an active romance.  He could have made an offhand comment (in reference to a gay couple) in a banter like "Hmm, I'd like to be in that lucky guy's shoes," then in a later cutscene in the same playthrough (keep in mind the game covers several years) go "Hey, that girl's kinda cute, wonder if she's seeing someone."  That's all.  Instead, as far as I know, the closest BW has come to committing to his bisexuality is a poor implimentation in which separate playthroughs in Awakenings and as femHawke suggest he's straight and another separate playthrough with maleHawke that suggests he's gay.  That hardly convinces me of his bisexuality or that the devs didn't waffle on his sexual preference for the sake of fanservice.

[Cainhurst Crow]

ME3 handled it better if you're playing a straight guy and don't want anyone else to have equal options.

At least DA2 gave everyone equal choices.

 

Why you gotta be so hateful?

[razmatazz]

But since the whole objection to playersexuality is based on the meta argument of character consistency through multiple playthroughs, let's can call shenanigans on the Asari too. After all, Bioware could have designed them with two genders, their monogenderedness isn't an important plot point. Even as it is, Liara could prefer males to females or vice versa, other Asari could have a gender preference. Maybe they do, but then either Liara doesn't or she's playersexual.

 Except it's all well supported by practically a whole chapter of lore that never seems to change based on a choice made by the player.

[Pateu]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

[Ispan]

Have the devs really confirmed Anders' bisexuality?

 

 

"While some people evidently didn’t like having their perceptions played with, it was indeed just their perception. We wrote the characters the exact same way, all that changed was what you were exposed to. Even, yes, Anders. He did not suddenly become bisexual in DA2 compared to Awakening. I wrote him in Awakening."

David Gaider's blog

 

Edit: Quote from the same blog entry

 

"People perceive what they will, and perhaps we should have gone further to establish that part of those characters more explicitly. I’m just not sure what lengths I’d want to go to just to make some people more comfortable with the idea… because, as I suggested above, I’m not sure all the reasons they’re expressing for that discomfort are actually genuine."

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Have the devs really confirmed Anders' bisexuality?  I'd really like to see a direct quote.  Or even a dev come in here and say so.  Otherwise:

 

What I actually would've liked to see are suggestions that Anders is in fact bisexual in a single playthrough.  It doesn't even require an active romance.  He could have made an offhand comment (in reference to a gay couple) in a banter like "Hmm, I'd like to be in that lucky guy's shoes," then in a later cutscene in the same playthrough (keep in mind the game covers several years) go "Hey, that girl's kinda cute, wonder if she's seeing someone."  That's all.  Instead, as far as I know, the closest BW has come to committing to his bisexuality is a poor implimentation in which separate playthroughs in Awakenings and as femHawke suggest he's straight and another separate playthrough with maleHawke that suggests he's gay.  That hardly convinces me of his bisexuality or that the devs didn't waffle on his sexual preference for the sake of fanservice.

Why? Why does someone have to state their sexuality? Is it so important that people need some pointless offhand comments like the aforementioned? People don't have to explicitly state that they like both genders to be bisexual. 

Also, all romances are fanservice. They exist simply because fanservice. They have no other actual reason to exist other than fanservice. Saying 'playersexuality' is fanservice therefore it's bad makes no sense.

[Mr.House]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

Job roles never determine a orientation. If you think all priest all straight, well you're in for a rude awakening.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Job roles never determine a orientation. If you think all priest all straight, well you're in for a rude awakening.

 

And not everyone in modeling or dance is gay.

 

Jobs are a poor way to tell what someones orientation is, even jobs in porn.

[Ispan]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

 

These don't sound like "original ideas."  They sound like tired, played out real world preconceptions.  Talk about sucking the personality out of a character!

[razmatazz]

Why? Why does someone have to state their sexuality? Is it so important that people need some pointless offhand comments like the aforementioned? People don't have to explicitly state that they like both genders to be bisexual. 

Also, all romances are fanservice. They exist simply because fanservice. They have no other actual reason to exist other than fanservice. Saying 'playersexuality' is fanservice therefore it's bad makes no sense.

 

Honestly, if it wasn't for the existence of the romances, I'd agree with you and I'd happily ignore the issue.  But, for me, the romances bring the issue to the fore, cuz who one has romantic feelings for is decided by, among other things, sexual preference.  You can't bring something up like that and expect me to just ignore it when it's treated in a way that seems artificial or is in no way supported by consistent rules or lore.  But maybe that's just me.

 

Edit: Yes, ultimately romances are optional fanservice, and normally I wouldn't care so much, except I believe it's implimented in a way that encroaches in an area that isn't optional (believability of a character) and should be treated with more respect.

[sandalisthemaker]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

 

It "makes sense" to you because Isabela and Zevran conveniently fit stereotypes that you are used to. 

 

It would make just as much sense for Alistair or Sebastian to be bisexual given the setting. The religious institution of the Chantry has no hangups concerning sexuality.