1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Honestly, if it wasn't for the existence of the romances, I'd agree with you and I'd happily ignore the issue.  But, for me, the romances bring the issue to the fore, cuz who one has romantic feelings for is decided by, among other things, sexual preference.  You can't bring something like that up and expect me to just ignore it when it's treated in a way that seems artificial or is in no way supported by consistent rules or lore.  But that's just me.

If I'm with a girl who  I just started dating, I'm not going to say I also sleep with men and vise versa when I'm with a guy. People don't t run around saying they are X unless they really know the person or they are really open.

 

The only way for this come out good is rejection ala Sam in ME3. The issue is, dudebros complained when Sam rejected them because apparently they believe all women must sleep with them.

 

Say Cassandra is straight, allow female Inquisitors to flirt with her and Cassandra to say in a way she is not interested in you that way. There we go. Sexuality confirmed and done in a way that makes sense.

[daveliam]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

 

Ugh.  I'm not really sure what it means for my sexuality to "make sense".  Why wouldn't it make sense for Alistair to be bisexual?  Or gay?  And I hope that you aren't going to say, "because he becomes king", but there have been bisexual and gay kings in history, so we know it can happen.

[sandalisthemaker]

Ugh.  I'm not really sure what it means for my sexuality to "make sense".  Why wouldn't it make sense for Alistair to be bisexual?  Or gay?  And I hope that you aren't going to say, "because he becomes king", but there have been bisexual and gay kings in history, so we know it can happen.

 

And there are religious LGBT people as well IRL. 

[WildOrchid]

 

 

Say Cassandra is straight, allow female Inquisitors to flirt with her and Cassandra to say in a way she is not interested in you that way. There we go. Sexuality confirmed and done in a way that makes sense.

 

Bite your fingers, plz.

[daveliam]

And there are religious LGBT people as well IRL. 

 

A bisexual religious King......?  Don't be ridiculous.  I mean, that would be such a terrible and uninteresting story to tell......

[Mockingword]

Characters shouldn't be made to fit the player's orientation, they should be made to fit an original idea.

 

For Isabella and Zevran to be bi makes sense.

 

For the chantry priest/Alistair ? Not really.

Everyone knows religious people can only be straight, right?

 

Leliana? Who's that?

[razmatazz]

If I'm with a girl who  I just started dating, I'm not going to say I also sleep with men and vise versa when I'm with a guy. People don't t run around saying they are X unless they really know the person or they are really open.

 

I'm not suggesting that everything be revealed all at once or upfront.  But, unless you're actively hiding that aspect of yourself, it'll likely come out eventually; your wandering eye might give it away, for instance.  The reveal needn't be hamfisted, repeated ad nauseum, or overt; see my Anders examples in one of my recent previous posts.

 

Edit:  For those it may actually concern, I tend to edit my posts a lot =p .

[sandalisthemaker]

A bisexual religious King......?  Don't be ridiculous.  I mean, that would be such a terrible and uninteresting story to tell......

 

Imagine if Empress Celene was Emperor Celan, who was in a relationship with his elven manservant. 

[daveliam]

I'm not suggesting that everything be revealed all at once or upfront.  But, unless you're actively hiding that aspect of yourself, it'll likely come out eventually; your wandering eye'll give it away, for instance.  The reveal needn't be hamfisted; see my Anders examples in one of my previous posts.

 

I completely agree with you that Anders was poorly done.  The fact that Anders doesn't say that Karl is his ex to female Hawke was ridiculous.  That is a perfect example of how it could have been done in a natural way.

 

However that doesn't mean that I think that every single LI should have to have a meaningful discussion of their sexual orientation at some point in the relationship.  If he's a dude and he's willing to romance my male Inquisitor, I'm pretty happy about that.

[daveliam]

Imagine if Empress Celene was Emperor Celan, who was in a relationship with his elven manservant. 

 

Ding. Ding. Ding.  It's almost like people like this already exist in the DA universe.....!

[Rusty Sandusky]

Imagine if Empress Celene was Emperor Celan, who was in a relationship with his elven manservant.

What is this? The Catholic Church?

[mars_central]

 Except it's all well supported by practically a whole chapter of lore that never seems to change based on a choice made by the player.

 

Except that whole chapter of lore, it could be argued, was written to justify Liara's playersexuality.

[razmatazz]

Except that whole chapter of lore, it could be argued, was written to justify Liara's playersexuality.

 

Doesn't matter, the lore remains consistent from playthrough to playthrough regardless of player choice and satisfactorily explains why asari are the way they are.  There's no such lore to explain why DA2 romances are the way they are, and therefore, the artifice of the mechanic becomes all too apparent (edit: to me, anyway).  That's where I draw the line.

 

Edit:  See?  I did it again .

[Han Shot First]

ME3 handled it better if you're playing a straight guy and don't want anyone else to have equal options.

At least DA2 gave everyone equal choices.

 

Ah...well that didn't take long.

 

Disagree with DA2's playersexual approach and it means you are a bigot?

[daveliam]

Doesn't matter, the lore remains consistent from playthrough to playthrough regardless of player choice and satisfactorily explains why asari are the way they are. 

 

To you.  Satisfactorily to you.  There are, apparently, others who don't feel that way.

 

There's no such lore to explain why DA2 romances are the way they are, and therefore, the artifice of the mechanic becomes apparent.

 

Do you mean to explain the sexuality of Fenris and Merrill?  Because they seem to be on the LI's who have unconfirmed sexualities.  It could be that they are playersexual and their sexuality changes based on the gender of the PC.  That is a legitimate possibility.  It could also be that they are both bisexual, but are more reserved about their sexuality and don't discuss it blatantly with Hawke.  That is another legitimate possibility.  Either one of those possibilities could be true.

 

To be honest, I'm not convinced that they are playersexual.  I'm also not convinced that they are not playersexual.

[Divine Justinia V]

I'm tired just watching you guys whew

[razmatazz]

1. To you.  Satisfactorily to you.  There are, apparently, others who don't feel that way.

 

 

2. Do you mean to explain the sexuality of Fenris and Merrill?  Because they seem to be on the LI's who have unconfirmed sexualities.  It could be that they are playersexual and their sexuality changes based on the gender of the PC.  That is a legitimate possibility.  It could also be that they are both bisexual, but are more reserved about their sexuality and don't discuss it blatantly with Hawke.  That is another legitimate possibility.  Either one of those possibilities could be true.

 

To be honest, I'm not convinced that they are playersexual.  I'm also not convinced that they are not playersexual.

 

1.  You're right; I'm certainly not speaking for anyone else.  Just myself.  With all my arguments.

 

2.  For what it's worth, I was actually referring to the romance mechanic itself, not any particular characters.

 

Edit:  Did it some more!  I really need to learn to get all my thoughts together before I post.  I've done this four posts straight now : / .

[KaiserShep]

Or the setting is just poorly constructed.  All of DA2's combat mechanics are absurd on their face.  Hawke's party's ability to do vastly more damage than any other creature in the world doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Can't let the combat mechanics get too intertwined into the story itself, or else people will believe that you can really take down a dragon just by slashing at its ankles.

[daveliam]

 

2.  For what it's worth, I was actually referring to the romance mechanic itself, not any particular characters.

 

I guess my point was that I'm not really convinced that we've even seen playersexuality in Dragon Age.  I mean to say, we might just have had four bisexual LI's in DA2, which is a different thing because no one's sexuality (or "character" )is being changed by the gender of the PC in that situation. 

 

If Fenris were to say, "I am straight" (or allude to being straight) in a female Hawke playthrough and say, "I am gay" (or allude to being gay) in a male Hawke playthrough, then that would be definite evidence that he is playersexual.  If Fenris were to say, "I am bisexual" (or allude to being bisexual) in the game at all, then that would be definite evidence that he is bisexual. 

 

As it stands now, though, we just don't know.  In DA: O, we know that there were two straight and two bisexual (zero playersexual).  In DA2, we know that there are two bisexual and two unknown (no more than two playersexual).  It's just a bit nebulous and that's why I'm not convinced fully that the other two are playersexual.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Ah...well that didn't take long.

 

Disagree with DA2's playersexual approach and it means you are a bigot?

lmao

Did I explicitly state anyone was a bigot? No. 

ME3 was horribly skewed in favor of straight dudeSheps. This is apparent. I personally fail to see how one could favor ME3's way of handling it.

I just stated that if you're playing a straight guy and do not wish anyone else to have options, you'd think that ME3 did romances better. I did not state that the only way you would think ME3 did it better is if you were the aforementioned. 

If it seemed like I stated one was a bigot and only a bigot for preferring ME3, then perhaps my post could have been better worded?

[Cainhurst Crow]

You keep saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is in favor of denying other people what they want, instead of simply someone who doesn't agree with you.

[razmatazz]

I guess my point was that I'm not really convinced that we've even seen playersexuality in Dragon Age.

 

Well, without any sort of consistent established lore to even suggest how sexuality or preferences work in DA, I am equally unconvinced that it isn't playersexuality, or at least not treated in an apparently artificial way.  And I dare say there's nothing wrong with either of our opinions.  But, right now, that's all they are.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

You keep saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is in favor of denying other people what they want, instead of simply someone who doesn't agree with you.

*sighs*

If this post is referring to mine, when did I state this more than once, if I stated it at all? I never said anyone who disagrees with me is in favor of denying others what they want.

I, as mentioned before, stated that if one wanted to restrict others they would favor ME3. Not the only reason that one would favor ME3 is because they want to restrict others. 

Some favor ME3 because it may seem more 'realistic'. Others because they don't want everyone to be hitting on them.

[daveliam]

Well, without any sort of consistent established lore to even suggest how sexuality or preferences work in DA, I am equally unconvinced that it isn't playersexuality, or at least not treated in an apparently artificial way.  And I dare say there's nothing wrong with either of our opinions.  But, right now, that's all they are.

 

I totally agree that we are at point where we're just stuck with opinions and have nothing else to go on, but I think it's really only for those two characters.

 

I think that there is established lore on sexuality for the different cultures in Thedas.  It's pretty clear (although a little limited), but it doesn't give us anything to go on for these two particular characters.  I would say that it does let us know what the opinions of the various factions and cultures on a superficial level, though.

 

Here's the link to wiki page.  All of the sources are either:  in game content, the World of Thedas source material, or quotes from Gaider, so it's all official information:

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Sexuality

[razmatazz]

I actually looked up that article earlier today, too, while engaging in this thread.  Only thing that's really definitive there are the people's views on sexuality and preferences, nothing really on sexuality or preferences themselves, outside of the issues with procreation.

 

Edit: I'll add that I am convinced of Isabela's bisexuality, and have no problem with it, since she was consistently established that way since Origins.  I don't believe the other three really have that benefit, though, especially Fenris and Merrill.

 

Edit:  Galsic, get it together, man!