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I wonder what was different this time that led it to not self-destruct? (genuine question, not snarky)
I always saw Aveline as straight
I don't mind how everyone is open to everything.
What I do mind, however, is when Anders makes moves on me and Isabela doesn't.
Can someone explain?
That scene from <<Just Shoot Me!>>:
Maya: relax, Dennis, your dad is not going to get hurt by Nina; he has had a woman before.
Dennis: and Nina had five!
Wow, well this thread took an interesting turn over the night. Okay, I'll bite:
Totally agreed. I have zero issues with in-game decisions blocking romance because it makes sense to me in the situations that are listed. Leliana is a great example, because it brings up the "hardening" idea again, which I continue to struggle with seeing how hardening is any different than playersexuality in the regard to the fact that the player is able to drastically change an aspect of the "character" through their choice. For example, if someone hardens Leliana or Alistair because they like how that romance story plays out better, then, to me, that is effectively the same as playersexuality.
I also don't mind romances being blocked due to player choices but I loved DA2 rivalry system (it does need some tweaks but I love the idea) because not everyone agrees with each other 100% when they get into a relationship with each other and that can create a different relationship dynamic. People do have relationships with people who do things they don't approve of. However, there probably should be a line that if crossed would end the relationship. Hawke sending an innocent mage to the Templars should be it for Anders...but considering how he flat out uses Hawke in the story it actually makes more sense for him to keep the "relationship" going no matter what Templar supporter Hawke does. With Fenris, you lose your chance at him if you hook up with someone else regardless of if you end up with the other person or not so he does have a line. idk about Merrill cause I never romance her.
I have to disagree about the definition of playersexuality but then again I don't think it even exists. It makes it even more obvious to me that the entire idea behind it is just nothing more than playermeta-gaming. There is no way a player who is playing the game for the first time with no prior in depth story knowledge would know that they can harden Alistair or Leilana or even when they can do it or what dialogue options need to be selected to make it happen, the same goes for all the romances in DA2. There is nothing wrong with having an influence on your companions, it's quite natural for a leader of a group to influence the ones who follow. It only becomes intentional after the game has already been play and finished or if the player searches the web for knowledge about the romances and dialogue options. IMO, once that has been done the player is playing the game with omnipotent knowledge and therefore can tweak their story the way they want. Nothing wrong with that for players who do it. The entire idea behind playersexuality is just people judging the story and character development based on metagaming. Although I find it odd that many of the anti"playersexuality" posters believe the characters should practically wear a sign that displays their sexual orientation while at the same time condemning the idea of being able to have an affect on the flow of their interactions with the characters.
What I do mind, however, is when Anders makes moves on me and Isabela doesn't.
It is truly amazing how many people are bothered by this moment.
You know, IRL, it is fairly easy to deal with when you are hit on by someone you're not interested in, you smile, say "not my cup of tea," and ... they leave.
I agree it's more complicated if that person is already a friend, sort of like how Anders as a companion is with Hawke. You can still make clear how you'd like the relationship to be (platonic) with tact, and that's that.
And guess what: like I keep saying, tell Anders you're not interested, and he'll never bother you (romantically) again.
He will go on to blow up the Chantry no matter what, it doesn't matter whether that moment happens or not. 
What I do mind, however, is when Anders makes moves on me and Isabela doesn't.
What exactly is the problem with that, though? I've heard this come up before. Still don't get why it bothers some people.
Is it because Anders isn't a busty lady?
She doesn't? If I recall, she even tells you straight up in the chantry that if you're looking for company you can find her at the Hanged Man. She wastes no time letting you know what she's about.I don't mind how everyone is open to everything.
What I do mind, however, is when Anders makes moves on me and Isabela doesn't.
So is everyone bi/playersexual in Thedas?
What exactly is the problem with that, though? I've heard this come up before. Still don't get why it bothers some people.
Is it because Anders isn't a busty lady?
Anders comes on a lot stronger than Isabela. Odd, given their personalities. While she is basically flirting with Hawke, Anders comes off as frankly a bit creepy. Especially since this can happen very soon after he kills Karl.
You also get rivalry points for turning him down which, while not a big deal in the long run, the amount you gain when measured against other opportunities to rival him makes it seem rather odd that he takes rejection so seriously.
I never got the dialogue where Anders is coming onto Hawke, and I've played the games as a dude a few times.
So I don't see why people complain about it so much.
You only get it if you choose the overly nice options twice in a row. Why people are shocked that being nice and supportive get you hit on I will never understand. He thought you were a nice guy and hit on you. You reject him he's a little hurt and the conversation moves on.
Why people blow it up baffles me especially since you get more rivalry automatically from Fenris for daring to recruit him as a mage.
Not Aveline and Varric anyway
Anders comes on a lot stronger than Isabela. Odd, given their personalities. While she is basically flirting with Hawke, Anders comes off as frankly a bit creepy. Especially since this can happen very soon after he kills Karl.
You also get rivalry points for turning him down which, while not a big deal in the long run, the amount you gain when measured against other opportunities to rival him makes it seem rather odd that he takes rejection so seriously.
I can accept that kind of explanation. 
Personally I never found it creepy, in fact I found it refreshing. I was used to female characters throwing themselves at my (female) PC, so it was nice to have someone like Anders initiate something.
I don't remember anything about Isabella, but someone here just mentioned that she basically immediately says you can meet her for some fun at the Hanged Man. That's creepy too... don't you think? But I guess people don't notice it because it's expected of a "sassy" and "free-loving" busty video game lady.
What I do mind, however, is when Anders makes moves on me and Isabela doesn't.
Can someone explain?
Errr, basically Isabela hits on you more than everyone else. In fact, she's probably the only one who makes moves.
Isabela's first conversation with men is about how Hawke is the first guy she has seen who can 'hoist the main sail' and if you're a woman its about how everyone in the place will be gawking and grabbing at you. And then she follows it up with an offer for company at the Hanged Man after you've helped her out. Isabela is never shy about her interest.
And yeah, a sarcastic Hawke can avoid Anders flirting entirely. The first two playthroughs I did were both sarcastic, so the only one besides Isabela who ever said anything remotely flirty was Fenris.
Well we don't know that for sure. Varric has never said "I like girls only". Or Aveline for that matter.
I'm sure if he's a LI in DAI, he'll be playersexual/bi and he'll have some backstory about how his first love was a male dwarven duster or something to justify that.
Yeeeaaah...that whole discussion on the science behind homosexuality completely lost me, and I'm not even sure how it's directly relevant to the thread's main topic. Whatever floats your boat, though, people 
!
Wow, well this thread took an interesting turn over the night. Okay, I'll bite:
Totally agreed. I have zero issues with in-game decisions blocking romance because it makes sense to me in the situations that are listed. Leliana is a great example, because it brings up the "hardening" idea again, which I continue to struggle with seeing how hardening is any different than playersexuality in the regard to the fact that the player is able to drastically change an aspect of the "character" through their choice. For example, if someone hardens Leliana or Alistair because they like how that romance story plays out better, then, to me, that is effectively the same as playersexuality.
The concept of influencing people's behavior or outlook is well within reason. Deciding a person's sexuality is not. And while DA handled the hardenings in a seemingly accelerated way (one could argue you were actually influencing them the whole game if you RPed right; the direct choice for the player just doesn't come up 'til the end), I don't think it's nearly as stark as deciding someone's sexual orientation by a choice made in the CC.
More broadly, some can argue that, in an interactive medium like video games, rules of writing don't have to apply. Yeah, technically that's true, but in a serious, story-driven game like DA, I'd argue the line has to be drawn somewhere. And there's no doubt in my mind DA's optional romance mechanic crossed that line, and encroached in an area that shouldn't be optional (a character's believability) by making a part of the character come off as artificial. And if real playersexuality is worse than what was actually implemented in DA2, then all the more reason to avoid it, I says.
Also, if this is about some risk/reward consideration for the devs, well BW's taken plenty of risks in other areas, haven't they? Why stop here? (This is a serious question, btw; I'm in no way insisting they do anything.)
She doesn't? If I recall, she even tells you straight up in the chantry that if you're looking for company you can find her at the Hanged Man. She wastes no time letting you know what she's about.
That statement is not an advance, just clarification that she's now a companion. Similar statement are mirrored across all companions, available for romance or not.
Anders, on the other hand, explicitly sought to be more than professional associates and generates rivalry points for anything short of affirmative response.
This contrast inherently clashes with existing character design.
You only get it if you choose the overly nice options twice in a row. Why people are shocked that being nice and supportive get you hit on I will never understand. He thought you were a nice guy and hit on you. You reject him he's a little hurt and the conversation moves on.
Why people blow it up baffles me especially since you get more rivalry automatically from Fenris for daring to recruit him as a mage.
Are you sure? It seems Anders makes a pass if you aren't a complete douche to him before going after Karl?
Haven't played a mage Hawke so I can't comment on Fenris
Are you sure? It seems Anders makes a pass if you aren't a complete douche to him before going after Karl?
Haven't played a mage Hawke so I can't comment on Fenris
Positive. You only get the unavoidable hit on if you pick the nice guy options twice in a row. Otherwise He's neutral to you and you have to hit on him first (I fucked up a few of my rivalrymances with my douchehawkes that way).
The snarky option isn't being a complete douche it's just calling his merger with justice creepy (which honestly it is).
I'm sure if he's a LI in DAI, he'll be playersexual/bi and he'll have some backstory about how his first love was a male dwarven duster or something to justify that.
Just like BioWare to completely ruin a character.
Justice is swift, unrelenting, and a total drama queen.
I can accept that kind of explanation.
I don't remember anything about Isabella, but someone here just mentioned that she basically immediately says you can meet her for some fun at the Hanged Man. That's creepy too... don't you think? But I guess people don't notice it because it's expected of a "sassy" and "free-loving" busty video game lady.
Well, Isabela is sassy and free-loving. Anders, however, is angsty and obsessive.
As I said many pages ago, to avoid this kind of problem in the future, I think they'll have to go with making sure the PC makes the first move at all times. This is, I suspect, an outgrowth of the "ninjamance" complaint.
It is truly amazing how many people are bothered by this moment.
You know, IRL, it is fairly easy to deal with when you are hit on by someone you're not interested in, you smile, say "not my cup of tea," and ... they leave.
I agree it's more complicated if that person is already a friend, sort of like how Anders as a companion is with Hawke. You can still make clear how you'd like the relationship to be (platonic) with tact, and that's that.
And guess what: like I keep saying, tell Anders you're not interested, and he'll never bother you (romantically) again.
He will go on to blow up the Chantry no matter what, it doesn't matter whether that moment happens or not.
http://dragonage.wik.../Talk_to_Anders
"
Anders: friendship (+5) and you will not be in a romance with him."
any choice clarifying disinterest results in rivalry points in and of itself.
Whether such flirting counts as tact may be a matter of opinion, but it is definitely misrepresentation under the aforementioned premise..
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